@MikeB

All the talk aside only Microsoft have the real numbers. They claim that the defect ratio isn't out of the ordinary. Personally I think it's a little higher, but I don't think it's as high as the number of dead lasers on Sony's PS2...

Jtsiren still has his launch unit. I know 4-5 with launch units that have not failed. I've read about people in forums who've had their machine replaced. Some have had bad luck. That's how it goes. And we have yet to see what might turn out with PS3 - it has certainly not been a case of zero failure rate.

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Trezzer, was your rantings against the PS3 and glorifications of the XBox 360 really justified to begin with?

You really just read what you want to read, don't you?

Anyway about your issue, I'd suggest calling them again. No matter which company you call, you can always run into a jerk. I'm currently struggling with several at Dell.

Last edited by Trezzer on 04-Apr-2007 at 11:59 AM.

@MikeB

I think the 360 likely has a higher failure rate then say the NES. But again the order of complexity difference is also fairly large. Micrsoft's published numbers are roughly 5%. Someone claiming to be a Best Buy rep said about 7% of their launch consoles were bad. Now while the rate on a console basis is high I think the rate compared to computers is on the low side. Don't falsely assume because the minority of owners with issues have the ability to be vocal and post to multiple message boards that these are issues that everyone is experiencing.

Again I'm not discounting those with issues with I have 5 of us with 360s none have needed a repair. 3 out of the 5 have launch consoles.

Check the Wii launch issues there were various reports of failures of that console.

Take into your filter my THIRD PS2 - I've been lucky enough to experience Sony's issues first hand. One guy at work claimed his PS3 was broken, I didn't see it but believe him.

Microsoft has continued to open up their warranty to match the competition. PS3 is 1 year and now so is the 360. Sending and receiving is now free. If you're unlucky enough to need a repair you now get a 1 year warranty, so in the next year if you're unlucky enough to experience a 2nd break it's free to repair. Repairs that took a couple months at launch are now taking about 5-7 days. There has undoubtably been strong improvements. If a company has issues improvements is what one likes to see.

Certainly everyone tells the truth on forums right? No Sony fan boys ever posted false info to make their nemesis console look bad right?

You can demonize the 360 anyway you want, but I think only the most zealous will read the worst in such a low minor group of people.

Last edited by BrianK on 04-Apr-2007 at 12:18 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 04-Apr-2007 at 12:16 PM.

@Trezzer

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Jtsiren still has his launch unit. I know 4-5 with launch units that have not failed. I've

I also know of one other launch day unit that is still working great (the Core I helped upgrade with HDD). I don't know anyone who has told me their Xbox 360 has failed, but truthfully I don't know that many people with consoles, or at least people that I discuss consoles with (outside forums that is).

Again, reading from forums, I still think Xbox 360 did have quality issues and it is least they can do that the warranties have been extended.

Last edited by jtsiren on 04-Apr-2007 at 12:28 PM.

I'll be the first to say my Wii has frozen a couple of times but nothing a power cycle didn't fix. My Gamecube, however, has survived 5 years and multiple falls onto a hardwood floor without a hiccup.

@Lou

Heh, yeah the Gamecube is solid. I remember the video where a girl did all sorts of nasty things to both PS2, Xbox and Gamecube. Xbox made it to the finals, but the cube won by surviving a 2-3 m drop to a concrete floor. Sure, it looked very bad, but it still booted the games

@Trezzer

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And we have yet to see what might turn out with PS3 - it has certainly not been a case of zero failure rate.

Yes that would be impossible to achieve, but considering Sony includes Folding @ Home with their console knowing well people may keep their consoles on 24/7 they seem to show much confidence in their product.

7% of launch units being bad I centainly consider to be a bad figure, add to that units which have and will show problems later on...

With regard to the forum I was talking about those are hardcore gamers, so considering they play more with their consoles, they probably run into more problems than the average gamer (mostly early adopters as well), actually those who've experienced problems seem to outnumber those who didn't, owing XBox 360s since launch.

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 12:59 PM.

@jtsiren

Having just been round a mates to have a play (he has a 360 and a ps3 AND a wii) I feel able to comment.....

Motorstorm

Beat anything on the 360 hands down AND it's a first generation title!

Just my opion of course.

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Put the needle to the record when the drum beats go like this...

@Trezzer

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(you need to work on your definition of HD though - the trailer is 480p)

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Perhaps you should just stick with Wii. It seems 480p will be more than enough for you

Apart from you being wrong with regard to your cheapshot at me, I would like to point out that PS3s or XBox 360s displaying your average game at 480p will usually still look considerably better than the average Wii or PS2 game (apart from other things like physics, AI, etc as well these machines are capable off).

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 01:11 PM.

@MikeB

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Apart from you being wrong

Except I wasn't. The link you provided was to a 480p video. There was another link on the site that provided a low bitrate 720p video.

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I would like to point out that the average PS3 or XBox 360 displaying games at 480p will mostly still look considerably better than the average Wii or PS2 game

Certainly better than the average PS2 game. As for Wii - the jury is still out on that one.

@plus4

How come I didn't expect different from you?

@Trezzer

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Certainly better than the average PS2 game. As for Wii - the jury is still out on that one.

OK, you're the expert on the XBox 360, so maybe the average XBox 360 game @ 480p is equal or worse than the average Wii game.

BTW, I think God of War 2 for the PS2 looks graphically more impressive than any Wii game I have seen so far.

@MikeB

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they seem to show much confidence in their product.

Oh confidence is never what they have been lacking. Quality assurance on the other hand...

So far things don't look too bad, but it's too early to judge whether any issues pop up further down the road - like the PS2 laser issue which typically appeared after warranty had run out.

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7% of launch units being bad

...for one dealer. It doesn't make the 5% sound unlikely and 5% is not out of spec for electronics.

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With regard to the forum I was talking about those are hardcore gamers, so considering they play more with their consoles, they probably run into more problems than the average gamer

The same can be said for my friends with 360s. But yeah, increased usage will of course mean increased chance of failure. But with all the awesome games already out and in the pipeline I don't doubt that any wear and tear issues will pop up before my machine is out of warranty

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actually those who've experienced problems seem to outnumber those who didn't, owing XBox 360s since launch.

Statistically this isn't true for us here.

@MikeB

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OK, you're the expert on the XBox 360, so maybe the average XBox 360 game @ 480p is equal or worse than the average Wii game.

You know very well what I mean. We've yet to see Wii pushed anywhere near its limits.

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BTW, I think God of War 2 for the PS2 looks graphically more impressive than any Wii game I have seen so far.

Considering that Wii runs the Gamecube Resident Evil 4 I'd have to disagree. But then again they're very different games and hard to compare.

@Trezzer

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Except I wasn't. The link you provided was to a 480p video. There was another link on the site that provided a low bitrate 720p video.

The direct link i gave you was the video that MikeB linked towards. All i did to get direct link was select copy url in mplayer under linux. That video was for sure 720p, but very low bitrate like you said.

@MikeB

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I think the XBox 360 issues are extraordinary though.

What, like the PS2 destroying its laser diode and the controller chip?

Last edited by AMiGR on 04-Apr-2007 at 01:34 PM.

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@MikeB

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BTW, I think God of War 2 for the PS2 looks graphically more impressive than any Wii game I have seen so far.

The Wii is 2-3 times more powerful than the PS2, period. That's not up for debate. The reason the games so far look crap is that they are not Wii titles, they are either Gamecube "ports" (ie. change the control scheme and that's it) or ports from other consoles.

RE4 looks better than God of War, graphically, and it's a GameCube title. No, do not compare GoW with the crappy PS2 version of RE4, the original and most impressive is the GC version which runs natively on the Wii as well.

Last edited by AMiGR on 04-Apr-2007 at 01:33 PM.

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@AMiGR
But they are Sony... Sony never makes any bad products, so it surely must be the users fault.

But seriously.. Modern Sony products has actually for me been horrible when it comes reliability. I went through 3 psx consoles, i had a trinitron 21" monitor die on me just out of warranty, my ps2 has developed reading problems, had a standalone mini disc recorder die after a few month and had a sony cd player stop taking cds.

The monitor problem was actually very widespread among different models according to what i read on the net. The problem was that the monitor would suddenly develop a problem where the image turned completely fuzzy after a few hours of operation and you would have to turn it off for a bit to get it back normal. This problem would slowly develop, so that it would instead in the end come after 15 mins of operation and would also develop a problem where the monitor would make a load snap, sounding like something was about to explode.
Most of these monitors seemed to go bad at around the time or shortly after the warranty expired.

Old Sony products seemed to have a totally different quality control though, as i have had only issues with more recent stuff.

Last edited by Tomas on 04-Apr-2007 at 01:38 PM.

@Tomas

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The direct link i gave you was the video that MikeB linked towards. All i did to get direct link was select copy url in mplayer under linux. That video was for sure 720p

They must base their video on the client then O_o.
So if you're using Linux or Windows you get crummy quality video but with a Mac you get a decent feed. Sounds reasonable. ;)

Last edited by Trezzer on 04-Apr-2007 at 01:35 PM.

@AMiGR

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RE4 looks better than God of War, graphically, and it's a GameCube title. No, do not compare GoW with the crappy PS2 version of RE4

LOL, so far God of War 2 is the most impressive fast paced, graphically impressive game with so many things going on at the same time than I have ever seen on both the Sony PS2 and Nintendo GameCube.

I don't know if the PS2 version of RE4 is crap though, but it may be that the game was designed around the GameCube's strenghts or something, all I say with regard to 'God of War 2' is that the PS2 still is an amazingly powerful game console.

Screenshots of RE4 for the GameCube look good though (but I think the actual game may be better than the game's graphics, which seem a bit dark to me), I am not dissing the console in any sense though, but surely games like Motorstorm or Resistance even at 480p are way out of its league.

Last edited by MikeB on 04-Apr-2007 at 02:18 PM.

@MikeB

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Screenshots of RE4 for the GameCube look good though (but I think the actual game may be better than the games graphics, which seem a bit dark), I am not dissing the console in any sense though, but surely games like Motorstorm or Resistance even at 480p are way out of its league.

Is that so odd, considering that the gamecube is getting rather old? The argument is that wii is much more capable than the gamecube when it comes to graphics and that we are likely going to see some titles that look much better than RE4 did, which was pretty impressive for that generation.