@DFergFLA

Quote:

Without decent webrowsing I probably wouldn't use the x5000 much. Making it an expensive toy that would more than likely not get used.

This reminds me that I'd like to point out we are not alone in the "OS" universe. As an example I'll point to OSX. Now on my PowerBook G4 browsing also isn't the best. Speedwise, 1.5Ghz isn't too bad, but being only single core lets it down. PPC brings the usual endian issues in an Intel world. And being stuck at 32-bit doesn't help. There are working solutions to an updated browser, namely TenFourFox and Leopard Webkit for an updated Safari as two examples. Even in an old state OSX 10.4 would likely have a better feature set than OS4 in a few areas.

Heck, even Mac OS9 is supported in the form of Classilla. Though that looks to be old. So attempting to port that doesn't look like a good idea.

For a few years now I used a PowerBook as a backup to OS4. Slightly slow but browsing was just a tad more normal. But like OS4 suffered stability issues from time to time.

A friend gave me a PC laptop so I set that up. Slightly newer than the Mac. And being Intel optimised does have a better browsing experience.

I suppose my point is I've never fully relied on OS4 for browsing. Well not for the past ten years I can recall. It's just one of those things. OS4 delivers what it does as it does and can't be expected to provide more. Yes it should provide more by now but the simple fact is it doesn't. It's good to know the limitations before jumping in to avoid disappointment. If it's not good enough, then it simply isn't good enough. And as you stated, sad. Yes a sad state of affairs but unfortunately that's how it is.

That's the price of love. The price of love here is high. And here what love give you won't always match what you give to it.

@AP


Raspbian is the official OS of the Raspberry PI.


Quote:

Raspbian is our official operating system for all models of the Raspberry Pi.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@AP

PowerPC is the redheaded stepchild in the desktop linux world.

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@terminills

IBM made a smart decision to make POWER9 small endian, so now it's much easier to port software.
Unfortunately, NXP will not be making any new PPC cores that could be cheaper. The cheapest 4 core POWER9 CPU is around 250 USD. A port to that architecture with a small endian OS4 would make it easier to have more up to date software and a working browser. It would also leave all other OS4 platforms behind, however, I don't see an alternative should they wish to remain on PPC. That's all under the assumption that Hyperion survives the current legal mess.

_________________

For me it has been about just enjoying what I have and focusing on Classic stuff now a days. 3.1.4 gave a big shot in the arm to me playing with the OS. I try to use them with my kids and other stuff. I simply don't expect them to do anything beyond what they do. Email via Simplemail, is decent and it is updated every year (December 24th to be exact), wish it preread huge email into memory and leveraged the PPC more to make it even more usable, but the point is for me is that there is still development for the classics and I love the classic boxes and making them work.

I did try the NG route many times and it was neat to play videos and visit more websites but I still enjoy the classics for some reason. Maybe because OS4 and MOS (to a lesser degree) just isn't being actively developed and the crazy red vs blue camp stuff. Sadly, they won't ever work together to solve the same problem and then be able to pool resources. That alone may help the pace at which the OS's are updated.

Games seem to come out for all the platforms which is nice, but I would much rather prefer updated productivity software. Compile it for the 68k and then let the other NG systems use their JIT to run them. I know that Final Writer was suppose to be worked on, don't know where that is.

Lastly, the vampire looks interesting add in upgrade to my 3000, if they are released that would be fun to try out and keep me using my 3k. The sad irony is that the vampire now is a becoming a different development fork. Perhaps the best way out of is to pool and develop all you can for the 68k and use them as best you can in other platforms, sorta like game codes coding for a 500 with 1 meg of ram back in the day when you had better/faster amiga choices.

For most of my friends still into the Amiga, they all seem to greatly prefer the classic even if they own an NG machine. I also find it interesting that a few friends who have x5000's run MOS on it, and I think that illustrates the murky water for NG.

@outlawal2

Quote:

You say custom hardware does not make sense for us and yet in my mind different hardware is a fundamental reason why I like the Amiga. Since day one it has had different hardware and to this old man that distinction should remain. (I understand that on paper it makes no sense at all, but this is about FEEL)

You weren't replying to me, but I'd like to point out that the Amiga used custom hardware 30 years ago because it had to. In fact, every computer used some sort of custom hardware back then. Even the PC technically used custom HW (CGA was pretty custom, never mind EGA and VGA!) and the compatible craze hadn't kicked in yet in 1985.

What was different about the Amiga, IIRC, was that the video and audio were state of the art (for a desktop anyway) and the system was set up with DMA and OS mechanisms to use the custom HW -- all built into the machine. All this stuff worked in parallel. By contrast, on the PC for a long time if you wanted nice sound you used SoundBlaster or one of its competitors and you had to load in a custom driver and hope you had enough room and possibly extend memory etc. etc.

I'd suggest that if you want a modern Amiga, buy a PC and install either Windows or Linux. You'll get exactly that. If you think that doesn't "feel" like an Amiga, then what you really want is either AmigaOS or the old games (or something like that), because otherwise the Amiga design philosophy won: every computer/OS combination today technically uses custom chips, DMA access so they can work in parallel, and OS mechanisms to use the custom HW -- except, ironically, AmigaOS4, because the OS can't use most video chips out there, and even the Xena chip seems to be a mystery as far as I can tell.

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@simplex

Guess I need to explain my situation a bit more. I started with Amigas decades ago and reluctantly made the switch to PCs early on when Commodore faltered. I have since been in the industry the entire time making my living supporting everything from desktops / laptops to servers, VMware, etc. I have about a dozen PCs, laptops, desktops Macs, Linux boxes in my basement along with a Microsoft domain running on Server 2016. 2016 is virtualized in a VMWare vSphere system etc.

Point is I have tried just about everything available and load Windows and MAC os pretty much weekly if not daily for Windows as I support 1300+ manufacturing PCs at work. I dabble with Linux periodically but for whatever reason it just doesn't work for me

With all of that, there is still something that feels different when using Amiga OS on something other than x86, x64... Again this is simply my feeling..

And who knows, once I get the Tabor I may decide that it too does not feel right for me.. Who knows?

@DFergFLA

Sorry to say so, but the x5000 is a dead end. expensive and not really a powerhouse by today's means.
If you want something with some actual bang for the buck and not being a pc, get e Raptor Blackbird. Power9 for a competetive price.

And to fullfil your Amiga fix, get an additional Powerbook and put MorphOS on it. It's stable, it's proven and the browser is not that bad (I use MorphOS for most of the stuff I do on the net).

Or get some generic x64 computer and put AROS on it, way more powerful hardware, less polished OS.

And with some luck, the MorphOS team will consider Blackbird support (it's on the team's radar, but nothing in that direction has been ever commented AFAIK).

But Hyperion's OS (aka AOS4) is somewhere stuck in limbo (lacking man power, law suits, #?), I wouldn't expect anything and rather avoid it.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @terminills IBM made a smart decision to make POWER9 small endian, so now it's much easier to port software. Unfortunately, NXP will not be making any new PPC cores that could be cheaper. The cheapest 4 core POWER9 CPU is around 250 USD. A port to that architecture with a small endian OS4 would make it easier to have more up to date software and a working browser. It would also leave all other OS4 platforms behind, however, I don't see an alternative should they wish to remain on PPC. That's all under the assumption that Hyperion survives the current legal mess.

With Raptor blackbird there is a Power9 computer with a rather sane price/performance ratio avaialble. Noone needs the very niche low volume hardware by some "Amiga" company. Way better to use generic hardware.
Power9 is biendian btw.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@outlawal2

Quote:

I just wonder how Raspberry PI were able to provide their unit to the world at that low price when they started with ZERO market at all?

Among other reasons already mentioned by others, they sourced parts that were already in widespread use and were no longer cutting edge. The RPi is basically a low-end phone without a keyboard, screen, or.... phone.

Last edited by bison on 15-Dec-2018 at 12:59 AM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@simplex

Quote:

I'd suggest that if you want a modern Amiga, buy a PC and install either Windows or Linux.

Preferably the later.

Most Linux distributions aren't very much like Amiga, but some are closer than others. AntiX in particular, I think. It's lighter and faster than most, and has all these weird and useful programs that aren't very polished or integrated, which gives it an Amiga-like aura.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@bison

Quote:

@simplex Quote: I'd suggest that if you want a modern Amiga, buy a PC and install either Windows or Linux. Preferably the later.

Well, yes.

Also, I didn't mean that the experience would be similar to an Amiga. I loved the feel of the Amiga keyboard, the Amiga mouse, the way it seems to move across the screen in a completely different fashion than it does on Windows and the rest, ... That's what I meant by the real longing being for AmigaOS rather than AmigaHW.

I hadn't heard of AntiX. I'll look it up.

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@all

Every year the same sadness, the same argumentation, and the more time lasts, the more it gets sadder.


I will repeat it once again: why you people so boldly refuse to look at the bare truth and to get real? What are you waiting for? Please stop this whole madness and start supporting, helping and adopting the AROS project as much as you can.


There is NO OTHER chance.


That was true 10 and 15 years ago, figure it now.

@paolone

Like you don't know that most of aw topics done for the sake of cheap talks about nothing :)

I have a friend from childhood, who in last 10 years from time to time ask me where to buy amigang, os4, morphos, did it have new games, browsers , offices , and he ask the same pereodicaly. At begining i explain few times those things, but then i realise that this is talk because of talk. He want do nothing, just talk a bit and feel like he "in". Like "amigggaaaaa!!" and stuff. He also love to say how sad this and that.

Some ppls just love only talk about deals, but not do any deals. That happen to be everywhere in the life too : remember those friends who always "start business", or "start to build house" , but instead only drank beer every day and watch TV. Same ppls says how sad everything is , how bad goverment, how suck everything and crap, but somebody else should fix all fo them :)

Last edited by kas1e on 15-Dec-2018 at 08:30 AM.

_________________
Join us to improve dopus5!
zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @terminills IBM made a smart decision to make POWER9 small endian, so now it's much easier to port software. Unfortunately, NXP will not be making any new PPC cores that could be cheaper. The cheapest 4 core POWER9 CPU is around 250 USD. A port to that architecture with a small endian OS4 would make it easier to have more up to date software and a working browser. It would also leave all other OS4 platforms behind, however, I don't see an alternative should they wish to remain on PPC. That's all under the assumption that Hyperion survives the current legal mess.

My understanding is that they changed their Linux support from BE to LE, not that they changed the architecture specifications of supporting both BE and LE?

The reason I sold my A4000 060/PPC over 10 years ago was the browser situation.
I for sure regret selling it but what is done is done.
The funny thing is that even after all these years and the lack of interest in Amiga or amiga like in general I have the best browser experience ever with my DELL Latitude D520 and AROS.
It is fast and it is not that many pages that does not work. I would say at least 90% work fine. Some times the browser can freeze but it is also times where I'm browsing for hours without problems. If I get a freeze the computer is back in 3 sec. Killing a task takes longer time in windows :D
What never worked good with AROS is the streaming stuff and that is for sure not good. All I can say is that it is being worked on and if we get that part working it will be awesome.

Not long ago there was this update to SSL in AROS Odyssey browser. That helped to be more compatible with many pages. GMail works in simple html mode. Facebook works good in simple view etc. and lot's of other stuff. The point is that even if stuff happen in browser world all the time, an old engine like Odyssey is, is still quite compatible.

A web-browser is quite demanding these days. Vampire or Pi using one core for this task is to weak. With 2D accelleration and a 2GHz CPU as I we have with the DELL D520, web-browsing is fast!
Not only is it a fast laptop, but can be used with external screens and bought used for around 50Euro.

All this said and as others point out it is a fun platform. Even Playstation or other game consoles does not have a web-browser. The good thing today is that most have a cell phone near by if needed so should not be difficult to check mail or whatever comes to mind.

Last edited by nikosidis on 15-Dec-2018 at 10:32 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 15-Dec-2018 at 10:31 AM.
Last edited by nikosidis on 15-Dec-2018 at 10:25 AM.

I remember when I was placing my order for the X1000, for me it was a lot of money and meant I would have to be really careful with my money for a while, hold off on upgrading my PC for a extra year or two and keep my car for a extra year and hope nothing breaks on it

I remember thinking before I hitted that buy button, if the system would still be worth buying if somehow all development stop the day after, ie no more software what ever came out, so I had a look at what was on it and what it could do, and the more I found the more I thought well I can have fun playing with all that stuff for a least 2 years and I also thought about how the value of the previous AmigaONE machines actually started going up, ie people bought machine able to enjoy it for years and lose very little money, something many people forget.

I feel I could likely sell my X1000 for around £1000 today if I wanted and I had 7 years of fun out of it, so it originally cost me £1800, with the software I bought on the platform likely cost me about £150 a year, that not bad for a hobby and I don't see it falling much more in value really so it not a bad system for that cost.

Last edited by amigang on 15-Dec-2018 at 11:15 AM.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@thread

Realistically what do people feel they are missing out on the current version of Odyssey 1.23 on AmigaOS 4 and 1.25 on MorphOS when it comes to Internet usage and do they think what they are missing out on encompasses your average Joe user of the Internet?

Let's be clear here. The following tasks can be done be done already with little to no issues
.
* Online Emails -Googlemail, Outlook (the current email packages of Iris and the update to Simplemail has helped close gaps so that you don't really need to use the web based versions)
* Microsoft Office and Google Docs can be usedonline
* Forum posts
* read news sites, Wikipedia
* book travel
* online shopping
* Online banking
* Twitter and Facebook posts
* blog writing - Wordpress
* watch Youtube videos, although using SMtube is better.
* downloading roms/files
* using Google/Bing/Here/Open Streetmaps

I would advise as a regular user of Odyssey to switch the ad-blocking software off as this causes some problems with websites including I found Wordpress. Spoofing as I-pad can solve a lot of problems with Odyssey version 1.23 on AmigaOS 4 as can accessing the mobile version of a specific website.

Yes there are things that are a complete no-no like watching Netflix in 4K, BBC I-Player and some other video based sites, but realistically are we going to be sitting in front of our Amiga machines to be doing just that as surely you would be wanting to do that in front of a big screen TV??

I am not disputing that Odyssey (on AmigaOS 4 especially could do with an update) but I think its important to highlight that things are not as bad as some on this thread have made out and personally about 90% of my internet needs can be serviced currently using Odyssey. I'd wager that for the average user the figure is about the same.

_________________
Amigaone X5000/20 4GB Radeon RX 550 Polaris 12 AmigaOS4.1 Final Edition Update 1
Amiga 1200 Workbench 3.1.4
Amiga CD32

@paolone

Quote:

Please stop this whole madness and start supporting, helping and adopting the AROS project as much as you can.

32-bit AROS or 64-bit AROS?

_________________
I've decided to follow an awful lot of people I respect and leave AmigaWorld. If for some reason you want to talk to me, it shouldn't take much effort to find me.

@simplex

Both are working good. 64-bit is the future so maybe focus on that one.