Hold on now!

We have got FIREFOX on AMIGA with access to all the juicy plugins, web based fun and continued development commitments...

7000 euros for over two years work split between two people does not seem like a whole lot of money to me! Certainly not a true reflection of the man hours commited to the project. I dread to think what the euro/hour pay rate would work out at...

Why cant this community just congratulate the Friedens and look forward to their continued support?
Bitching and moaning about the intricacies of when a bounty is closed sounds petty and ungrateful!

Last edited by ddni on 25-Jul-2012 at 11:54 AM.

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AmigaOne X1000

@ddni

Oh, don't be surprised, it's the best part of this community!

You know, bitching and moaning pushes the devs forward, it's encouraging and helps to point out the flaws and bugs they have negligently forgot or failed to address.

It's like competition, without it there would be no innovation! Especially in such a small (non existent some like to point out) amiga market..

imagine if 2 devs would cooperate, it could be a disaster! Better we have two competing ones and let them starve to near death, at least they will code to get the 7000EUR in two years to buy some dry bread to survive one day longer..

Gosh 7000EUR in 2 years and RC1 is the product they deliver.. rich, lazy phuckrs.. can I have my donation back please? I'll go to cinema one and a half time with that money and buy some pop corn too.

p.s. there is some sarcasm in this post, you'll get 7000Rp if you find it. (transferable via money wire, western union or bounty system. only one winner accepted, please provide your full credentials, full bank account and password/bank key or complete credit card data to mr-ougandougogo-director-of-bank-of-west-africa@hotmail.com)

@djrikki

Wohoo! Looking forward to RC2!

I hope Timberwolf keeps improving for a long time to come.....

Scott

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@cgutjahr

Quote:

I don't think so either, but it brings up the question as to who decides when a bounty is finished. We're talking about nearly 7000 Euros here, I find it somewhat strange that the donors have to find out themselves that the bounty has been closed and the money was already transferred. Perhaps this process should be finetuned somewhat for future (big) bounties and include a simple voting process or something like that. And even if nobody's going to complain in public, I don't think you could describe the project as "finished". Cookies don't work reliably, navigation buttons vanish occasionally, and it was never part of the bounty description that there would be zero hardware acceleration (I know, I know - hardware acceleration is obsolete...). And while the bounty description was too vague anyway, having no AmigaOS specific features isn't my preferred definition of "as many AmigaOS specific features as possible". Again, I'm not implying that the Friedens are going to take the money and run - if that was the plan, they should have done so a decade ago. But for me as a bystander, this sends the wrong message.

thats all fine and well. likely some sort of regulation would bring more clarity. but this special case is closed, none can revert it and if one did it would lead to even more bad blood. as is say i was even a bit baffled, when bounties on aros, especially the comparatively well donated kickstart bounties, have been closed a bit early to my expectations. but devs have proven themselves trusty, even though one of them with absolutely no past record in amiga community, aros68k is progressing well and all is good. what concerns timberwolf it looks usable, one guy on polish site has it even running on csppc. i guess it is no worse a port than netsurf68k when it comes to amiga features. of course netsurf is free, even if some people have sure donated to arti, but given firefox original functionality the bounty is well justifable. it took ages and improving it will take eternity, but its there, and thats a gain, no doubt.

@Troels

I didn't realise that you could access the issues from os4Depot, I thought (inadvertenly) it was only through the bounty page, and when I looked I couldn't see how to access the outstanding issues.
My Mistake!!!

Well done to the brothers, theydo deserve every penny (euros)

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Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@wawa

Quote:

but devs have proven themselves trusty

Again, this isn't about the Frieden brothers. It's about us, i.e. the community.

Timberwolf is not finished. Actually, nobody even claims it is - even the amigabounty.net spokesperson tells us he hopes "that new bugs will be fixed and speed and stability improved over time". Yet the money gets transferred and you're not even allowed to question that, because that equals "bitching and moaning" and it's "petty and ungrateful".

Have we lowered our expectations so far by now, that we don't even expect any results? "Hey, at least they're doing something for AmigaOS, and we can now brag about having a Firefox port (even if nobody uses it), so why bother with proper results?"

I have a lot of respect for what the Friedens achieved with their port so far. And if there would have been some sort of discussion about closing the bounty and transfering the money, I wouldn't have any issue with whatever the donators agreed upon - it's their money, afterall. But there was no discussion, and everybody is expected to go along with it now - otherwise you're "petty and ungrateful".

And that is not a good thing - that kind of peer pressure doesn't do this community any good. Asking questions is considered intelligent behaviour in most communities.

@cgutjahr

I know that power2people discusses in aros-exec before closing a bounty (except it is f.e. freeing code with a certain sum). Here it seems to be handled differently but it is not interesting for me and I have not donated. If the donators think that handling of their (OS4) bounties is ok I am fine with it. Many people in the OS4 camp think very different compared to f.e. MorphOS and Aros community members and are more willing to spend money.

@wawa

The bounty is for version 4.0 of Firefox, what is done it is really impressive, no one else has managed to port FireFox, many have tried, the number of bugs and issues are getting smaller by etch day, I expect the bounty to be finished this year.

Firefox is way more features then OWB, the plugin system, cover visual presentation of GUI, and there are many plugins and they are independent of OS from downloading stuff, debugging stuff, and so on, integrated support for webm video, NetSurf does not even have JavaScript support.

I hope they can get hardware acceleration in there because it too slow on my computer, for everyday use, it silly to need AmigaOne-X1000 just to surf the web, that’s way MUI-OWB is my main browser, I sometimes use old reaction OWB, because I think MUI-OWB has some bugs, even MUI-OWB is not feature complete.

A new bounty has to be started for Firefox 14.0.1.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

"A new bounty has to be started for Firefox 14.0.1."

till it is finished you need a bounty for Firefox 28.0.1 ...

The people that f.e. in Aros took over and finished a bounty do not expect always new bounties just to care for their product/port.

@ddni

Actually, I thought his point was valid. And he really didn't whine much compared to the average background whine here.

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This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@OlafS25

Quote:

I know that power2people discusses in aros-exec before closing a bounty (except it is f.e. freeing code with a certain sum)

There is a committee at AmigaBounty that deliberates and votes on such things in private emailing list.

The Timberwolf funds release was not a sudden rubber stamped yes. It's taken a while to come to this decision.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@OlafS25

Quote:

"A new bounty has to be started for Firefox 14.0.1." till it is finished you need a bounty for Firefox 28.0.1 ...

That's the problem with Firefox. If you blink them you missed 7 releases. It's hard to take seriously. I think some "major" releases are simply to correct trivial typos that no one ever looks at.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

hmm if the donators accpeting this way of handling then it is ok (a kind of closed source model ). But it is not transparent and open and only lead to discussions (expecially regarding bigger and more complex bounties). So it would be better to change this in future (my personal view).

@scabit

Quote:

Okay, start TWRC1 - immediately get a DSI error, then an ISI error. Reboot Start TWRC1 - Get ISI error after about 3 minutes Reboot Start TWRC1 - Get a DSI immediately after saving a bookmark. 2nd bookmark attempt causes ISI. Reboot Start TWRC1 - Restore session. Get an ISI error within a few seconds Reboot Start TWRC1 - DSI error at startup splash screen. Then get an ISI. Select "Kill Program" but Timberwolf keeps running like nothing is wrong. Strange. Allowing me to browse web then exit okay. So what program did I kill exactly that had an ISI? Is IconX failing? Set Workbench screenmode to ARGB32 1280x720. Start TWRC1- Runs oka for about 5 minutes, then ISI error.

Good thing OS4 reboots fast.

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Here for the whimpering end

@jorkany

Yeah I have similar problems, I solved it by moving Timberwolf from Work (JXFS) to the system partition (SFS) and problem disappeared straightaway.

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@jorkany

your seems to be more feature rich than mine..

I boot my Amiga, start TW RC1 from a JXF4 partition and it has yet to crash.. It did hower crash only once: the very first time, after I installed it.

posting this from TW.

System has been up since 25.07.2012 08:38:33 (total uptime 11:23:22)
(I just did a copy and paste, and it worked!)

But I did not do anything important with my Amiga today; only surfing the web, writing trevial stuff, copying thing and reorganizing some new photo's I made), that's my bulletproof (until now) method for having a super stable Amiga.

@billt

Quote:

There is a committee at AmigaBounty that deliberates and votes on such things in private emailing list. The Timberwolf funds release was not a sudden rubber stamped yes. It's taken a while to come to this decision.

There is no news item regarding Timberwolf's status change on AmigaBounty's front page - while the completion of other bounties seems to get announced there. The project Timberwolf page has been updated to note that "we feel that the requirements of the bounty has been met", without any explanation who's included in "we" and why they feel the requirements have been met.

The "Bounty rules" section does actually mention the "Amigabounty committee" you're referring to - but only as the entity that "evaluates all proposed projects and decides what makes it into an actual bounty on amigabounty.net". Nothing in the bounty rules explains who decides if a bounty is finished - or how that decisision is made.

This is wrong. Not intentionally of course, but some more transparency is urgently required, if you ask me.

@djrikki

I come to understand more and more each day, how difficult software development must be.

I had no problems with JXFS yet, and we use the same machines.. It would go crazy if I had to write code for such hardware..

I can donate friedens a few tens of euros around every TW release that makes TW more mature. So far they have well earned the previous bounty.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Firefox is way more features then OWB, the plugin system, cover visual presentation of GUI, and there are many plugins and they are independent of OS from downloading stuff, debugging stuff, and so on, integrated support for webm video, NetSurf does not even have JavaScript support.

Let me disagree on this. WebKit (and thus Odyssey) also has plugin system, userscript support (many can be used from userscripts.org in Odyssey). There's bultin webinspector (available as Firebug extension on Firefox), content filter/adblocker, userscript support (grease monkey on FireFox). HTML5 video support is much more complete (all codecs are supported, while Firefox only supports WebM and OGG).

Quote:

OWB is my main browser, I sometimes use old reaction OWB, because I think MUI-OWB has some bugs, even MUI-OWB is not feature complete.

It's true the OS4 port has still several bugs to be fixed.