So why was mike banned this time?

@Lou
Thanks for the Wii updates. I think games can get better for the system and have to if it's going to have any sort of longevity. Being the # of owners is high there's definitely a market for some kick-butt games.

@Interesting
45nm CPU is not the only trick. There's a smaller blu-ray laser, again saving costs, in development. Also rumored is a thinner form factor. These will help Sony better gain profits off the PS3 hardware itself or perhaps drop the price below 360 levels and kill off the Microsoft party. Microsoft has some 65nm processes coming for it's GPU but overall is going to have less wiggle room. One thing it does have is it's generating profits for Microsoft, and Microsoft has deeper pockets then Sony. So, if push came to shove Microsoft could take the $ loss to maintain it's market goals.

@Thomas
Not sure why MikeB was banned. I think he is unbanned in so far as he dropped me a note thanking me for the conversation on the PS3v360 threads. He mentioned something about wanting his account removed and he won't be returning.

@BrianK

Quote:

45nm CPU is not the only trick. There's a smaller blu-ray laser, again saving costs, in development. Also rumored is a thinner form factor. These will help Sony better gain profits off the PS3 hardware itself or perhaps drop the price below 360 levels and kill off the Microsoft party

well the 45nm shrink will go a long way for Cell. Sure Toshiba will have alot of products using it now. The TV's shown at CES used the 65nm shrink for demos so the 45nm shrink is for production?

have you read/heard about a new Xbox 360? I head a few rummors that MS is going to put AMD's new fusion engine in it.

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@Interesting

Quote:

Interesting wrote: @BrianK Quote: 45nm CPU is not the only trick. There's a smaller blu-ray laser, again saving costs, in development. Also rumored is a thinner form factor. These will help Sony better gain profits off the PS3 hardware itself or perhaps drop the price below 360 levels and kill off the Microsoft party well the 45nm shrink will go a long way for Cell. Sure Toshiba will have alot of products using it now. The TV's shown at CES used the 65nm shrink for demos so the 45nm shrink is for production? have you read/heard about a new Xbox 360? I head a few rummors that MS is going to put AMD's new fusion engine in it.

AMD? You must mean for the 720 or whatever they want to call it...
Also, I don't see what's to stop MS from moving it's cpu to 45nm or using slimmer DVD drives like the Wii does to shrink (or thin) the 360 as well. There are laptops with more computing power that the 360/PS3...laptops with 16x DVD-writers in them, I might add...

@Interesting

Quote:

have you read/heard about a new Xbox 360? I head a few rummors that MS is going to put AMD's new fusion engine in it

AFAIK Fusion is based upon Phenom. It's GPU and CPU on 1 chip. I'd assume this is x86 and not PPC based. So the question will be how portable is the PPC code to such a processor? Also the question is timeframe. Fusion is 2009 so over a year away. Perhaps the 'new Xbox360' you meant the 3rd console from Microsoft?

Microsoft has hinted that they are already considering solutions for their 3rd design. I bet they are talking to Intel / IBM / AMD again about solutions and planning accordingly. The Fusion would likely be on the table at this point. But, I'm doubtful enough work has been done to choose the final CPU/GPU config.

Another factor is Apple. They renewed their trademarks and included gaming. Many want/hope that the Pippin2 will be released. I think if AppleTV is to take off they need gaming since the 360 and the PS3 can do everything AppleTV can do and add gaming.

@BrianK

The fall could certainly be interesting. If Sony manage to cut manufacturing cost in
half yet again and reach 200$/unit we could see a huge drop in price, maybe as high
as 150$. Then 250-300$ by christmas 2008 could be a reality.
Or 350$/unit sold with profit. I guess PS3 is still sold for about 400$/unit? Which must
be a huge loss as the manufacturing cost is told to be 400$/unit.

Also the comments from Sony reps about selling PS2 software on PSN in the future
is encouraging. This seems to indicate they're indeed working on full PS2 emulation
for the 40GB aswell.

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@Samwel

Quote:

Also the comments from Sony reps about selling PS2 software on PSN in the future is encouraging. This seems to indicate they're indeed working on full PS2 emulation for the 40GB aswell.

Not necessarily. Having you buy that PS2 game again is different then giving you a software emulation so you can use what you've already purchased, IMO. The 360 has done this now. There are Xbox titles one can buy online and then play with the console. I think everyone so far can be run in the emulation software, so you could say buy it used on Ebay. We'll see how Sonys handles this issue and do we really get emulation for free or do we have to pay for our games over again.

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @BrianK The fall could certainly be interesting. If Sony manage to cut manufacturing cost in half yet again and reach 200$/unit we could see a huge drop in price, maybe as high as 150$. Then 250-300$ by christmas 2008 could be a reality. Or 350$/unit sold with profit. I guess PS3 is still sold for about 400$/unit? Which must be a huge loss as the manufacturing cost is told to be 400$/unit. Also the comments from Sony reps about selling PS2 software on PSN in the future is encouraging. This seems to indicate they're indeed working on full PS2 emulation for the 40GB aswell.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2008/02/13/ps2-backwards-compatibility-not-dead-yet/

as I alluded to many pages ago...

PS3 to be top selling console by 2011? "if a three-year forecast from market research firm iSuppli is to be believed, the PS3 could out pace both the Wii and the Xbox by 2011"
--
IMO Sony has 'fallen'. The PS2 was the hands down winner of last generation. The PS3 winning by 2011 means that while Sony has the winner their share of the market will be much smaller compred to the PS2. Nintendo and Microsoft will have, consequently, made increases in marketshare over their last console. Overall a much more even race between the 3 then last gen.

As we look towards 2011, there are lots of unknowns out there. If the Wii slips during this time I think we'll see Nintendo shipping the Wii2. Microsoft is planning the 3rd iteration of the Xbox. I'd hope to see it before if not in 2011. (If the rumors of the AMD Fusion being used are true then likely late 2009 at best) Moore had been quoted as saying Microsoft is looking into technology for the 2011-2012 timeframe.

IMO when Blu-Ray, HD DVD is settled Microsoft is going to need an answer as it now looks like they backed the wrong horse. I hope we see a dual Blu-Ray/HD DVD player for the 360 this Christmas.

@Lou

Quote:

Also, I don't see what's to stop MS from moving it's cpu to 45nm or using slimmer DVD drives like the Wii does to shrink (or thin) the 360 as well.

My understanding is smaller Blu-Ray crystal will have more impact to price then a slimming of a DVD player would.

One factor for Microsoft might be the rumored Valhalla 360. It's supposedly a unified GPU/CPU chip and rumored to be 45nm. It'd be the last generation 360 if it comes.

Due to the populatrity of the PS2 we still see them selling. If Microsoft can do something like Valhalla we may well see the 3rd gen Xbox and the 360 selling alongside each other for longer then the Xbox sold w/ the 360.

If you have $6,000,000 to spare and need to setup a PS3 this is how to do it.

Pictures are slow, and yes you can find a PS3.

Microsoft believes Blu-Ray winning will not impact them.

"We do not believe the recent reports about HD DVD will have any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace. As we've long stated, we believe it is games that sell consoles and Xbox 360 continues to have the largest next-gen games library with the most exclusives and best selling games in the industry"


---
Rumors are Blu-Ray 360 drive will be available as soon as May.

@BrianK

Heh nice "saviour" speech from MicroSoft

Although I have to agree with it mostly. But also Sony will recieve additional sales
now that Blu-ray became the winner. This is what MicroSoft so nicely talked around
with that comment. A typical PR speech from a tech looser.

It feels like Sony is on a roll.. The big rock is starting to roll at a higher speed. I think
when it gets in to high speed it will be impossible to stop. Even for Wii.

IMO a blu-ray addon will take a while.. Earliest by the end of this year. Probably later.

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@Samwel

Analysts disagree with Microsoft's expectation that Blu-Ray won't impact their console. These same experts expect the PS3 to take a 10% sales hike.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=33280

IF that happens Micrsoft would be foolish to not ship a Blu-Ray drive this Christmas if not sooner. There are rumors it already exists, Tigger claims he saw it. The question becomes how expensive will it be. If it's more then $200 then I think people will just opt for the PS3.

Last edited by BrianK on 20-Feb-2008 at 12:48 PM.

@BrianK

Disagree? How so? 10% boost this year and possibly a bigger boost long term I read.
Or did you mean the Blu-ray add on?

The blu-ray add on is nothing special.. Just put a SATA blu-ray drive in the same HD-DVD
box they currently have. A firmware change and then I guess it's go. This could be
done in months or even weeks if they wanted to. It all depends on how soon they
want to leave their current partners.

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@Samwel

I edited the post for better definition so your 'analysts disagree' question should be answered.

Blu-Ray add-on is a bit special in the sense that we saw Microsoft going away from Java. Now they're going to have to support it with BDj, or should. Also I wonder if there's enough room in the firmware for both the HD and Blu software. We'll see that answer, I supect there is.

@Samwel

Quote:

The fall could certainly be interesting. If Sony manage to cut manufacturing cost in

looks like Sony went for another way to cut costs "Sony to sell chip facility to Toshiba for $835 mln"

The equipment will be used by their semiconductor joint venture that will make high-performance Cell chips and RSX graphic chips, both used in Sony's PlayStation 3 game console, as well as other microchips that go into Toshiba products.

Link

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@BrianK

Is it possible to have two firmwares if both don't fit?
Like one supporting Blu-ray and the other HD-DVD. Could be messy but works if they
add auto sensing of type of addon drive.

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@BrianK and Tomas

A ban only restricts the ability to post in forum threads and news comments, you are still able to log in and both read and write PM's.

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@BrianK

Quote:

If you have $6,000,000 to spare and need to setup a PS3 this is how to do it. Pictures are slow, and yes you can find a PS3.

Now that is what I call a media room

Now, where is my $6,000,000 ?

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