@Lou

For some reason some people just emphasize the less likable side of Lair. And MikeB isn't shy of pointing out Lair has a less likable side. So your remark is a bit strange.

I think what almost everyone agreed on is that the visuals and audio of Lair was something that gave the 360 some headache.

Do great visuals make a good game? Not always, but it does help.
Here I'm cursing Capcom for the less than ideal camera system of Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP. But still I enjoy the visuals and the game. So you could say Monster Hunter Freedom can become quite repetitive and the gameplay is less than ideal, but still it is considered as a rock solid title for the PSP.

Perhaps Lair should be seen in the same way as MHF.

@BrianK

Quote:

Previously I said that I expect the PS3 to outsell the 360 by end of 2008. Currently the PS3 is ~5.5M behind. This means they need to outsell the 360 by ~140K per week, on average, to accomplish this. With the current sales of ~30-40K per week it is going to need a HUGE Christmas to accomplish my prediction. When do you predict the PS3 to reach #2? Will it ever beat the Wii and reach #1? If so when?

Yes, I think both platforms should be about on par at the end of this year. GT P should widen the sales gap this week, I expect GTA IV to push far more PS3s than 360s, then MGS4 in June should make the weekly gap very significant. The PS3 should see a huge christmas with Resitance 2, Killzone 2, Motorstorm 2, LittleBigPlanet, Home and a whole lot of other games lined up. The PS3 should see a minor price cut in the second half of the year which should help sales far more than the effect we saw from the European 360 pricecut.

Quote:

Do you think the PS3 will be able to come back and be the market leader to this extent?

The PS3 has a great reputation as a Blu-Ray movie player, for those interested in games as well, the PS3 is a great (casual) entertainment product already. A slimline PS3 will peak interests in Japan especially combined with Final Fantasy XIII. HDTV sales are spiking, the Blu-Ray movie market is set to more than triple this year. IMO all conditions are right for the PS3 to outsell the Wii in 2009 when the PS2 should finally be discontinued in western countries.

For the end of this generation I expect the 360 to have a similar market share as the XBox had probably a few more million in total unit sales due to the headstart and thus maybe a year or two extra time on the market, the Wii should at least double its install base compared to the previous generation. But there's enough room for the PS3 to better the PS2 in sales as well, although this will likely take more time due to a slow start with high pricing and learning curve for developers adapting towards the new technology.

Last edited by MikeB on 30-Mar-2008 at 08:21 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

So what you are saying is that you like Lair because you has nothing better to compare it to?

No, but if there were hundreds games like Lair there's less value to the game. Wii Sports felt fresh, but having hundreds of such party games will become boring and will raise comparitive expectations (expect a follow up to aim higher). If a game like Wii Sports would have been released for the Wii with Everybody's Golf quality graphics, style and characters before Wii Sports got released, many people would have had higher expectations and dislike what they saw from the game, sure it affects perspectives.

Last edited by MikeB on 30-Mar-2008 at 08:16 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: So what you are saying is that you like Lair because you has nothing better to compare it to? No, but if there were hundreds games like Lair there's less value to the game. Wii Sports felt fresh, but having hundreds of such party games will become boring and will raise comparitive expectations (expect a follow up to aim higher). If a game like Wii Sports would have been released for the Wii with Everybody's Golf quality graphics, style and characters before Wii Sports got released, many people would have had higher expectations and dislike what they saw from the game, sure it affects perspectives.

Well, it seems to me that the controls may be affected by the quality of the gyrometers in the Sixaxis as supposedly they've improved since launch...and that may be why some people like the controls and others don't.
That being said, I think Lair over-promised and under-delivered in the gameplay department. It was Factor 5's first PS3 outing. They've ported their Lair engine to the Wii so it will be interesting to see how controlling Pit (Kid Icarus) compares to controlling a dragon.

@jiyong

Quote:

jiyong wrote: @Lou For some reason some people just emphasize the less likable side of Lair. And MikeB isn't shy of pointing out Lair has a less likable side. So your remark is a bit strange.

See MikeB's elaboration. He knew what I was talking about, but it doesn't mean I wasn't wrong in my question and his response didn't really disagree with it.

Quote:

I think what almost everyone agreed on is that the visuals and audio of Lair was something that gave the 360 some headache.

Well, without an actual 360 port, that's tough to really agree on.

Quote:

Do great visuals make a good game? Not always, but it does help. Here I'm cursing Capcom for the less than ideal camera system of Monster Hunter Freedom on the PSP. But still I enjoy the visuals and the game. So you could say Monster Hunter Freedom can become quite repetitive and the gameplay is less than ideal, but still it is considered as a rock solid title for the PSP. Perhaps Lair should be seen in the same way as MHF.

Well, that's different strokes for different folks. I'm one for gameplay over graphics.

...to continue the gameplay over graphics mantra..
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9761&Itemid=2

Here the developers of Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 tout the Wii version as the best version of the game. They feel it offers the best online experience and best gameplay because of the unique controls.

Quote:

As series creator Shingo 'Seabass' Takatsuka admitted late last year, the final PS3 product was “so far from what we wanted". The game regularly “stuttered” and was plagued with online problems, something that was also reported by some owners of the Xbox 360 version. It was hardly the beautiful game as we’d come to expect it from Konami, but, says Murphy, things are back on track – in PES 2008 for Wii the platform has finally got the decent football game it has been “crying out for” and one that “offers the best online experience” in the history of the series.

and

Quote:

"It has all the intricacies of the existing versions, but within a user interface that couldn’t be implemented on any other format than the Wii,” says Murphy. “PES 2008 for Wii isn’t just a good football game, it is an ambitious one – and the team’s efforts have paid off enormously. It will make fans of any football game rethink the way they play: no longer is just one player controlled, the user orchestrates the entire team.”

Since the Wii cannot output a higher resolution than the Gamecube could, this means that with the extra power over the Gamecube, (good) developers can keep a nice rock solid framerate and spend more time on gameplay.

I see the grudge match for graphical superiority between the 360 and PS3 as something that tends to breed sub-par gaming experiences in the effort to merely look prettier... This is the arms race that Nintendo opted to stay out of. Yes, I wish the Wii could output 720p, but at the same time, I haven't seen a true "need" for it either.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think both platforms should be about on par at the end of this year.

Yup I think it'll be close. I'm thinking within 2M of each other.

Quote:

I expect GTA IV to push far more PS3s than 360s

Being there are less PS3s in user hands I think you're right. Though some pundits are expecting the 360 sales to be double the PS3 sales for the game itself. Perhaps they will but I think the PS3 will have a great % of their user base buying this game. Afterall we've been waiting for these AAA titles.

Quote:

The PS3 has a great reputation as a Blu-Ray movie player, for those interested in games as well, the PS3 is a great (casual) entertainment product already.

Seems Microsoft may not be making a Blu-Ray add-in. I think they would be dumb. Even if the sales aren't there for the product they need the marketing cred, IMO.

Quote:

For the end of this generation I expect the 360 to have a similar market share as the XBox had probably a few more million in total unit sales due to the headstart and thus maybe a year or two extra time on the market

It seems the market share for the 360 will be close to the Xbox around 25-30% of the market. Of course the market has grown so yes there will be more total system sales.

Quote:

But there's enough room for the PS3 to better the PS2 in sales as well,

Perhaps there is. I suspect the Wii2 and Xbox3 will be 2010 at the earliest, likely 2011. If Sony can gain #1 by early 2010 they can more safely ride the PS3 waves and wait on the PS4 to 2012-2013. If they can't get to #1 waiting may be a worse PS4 year 1 then the PS3 year 1 was.

Another review.

Enchanted Arms
It's an RPG, I believe one of the earlier ones for the PS3. Picked it up used as well as other titles, as $60 a game that 'may be OK' isn't my idea of a good deal.

I wasn't impressed with the game at first, but it's grown on me a bit. It's reasonably pretty, and people with an anime fetish will certainly like it- it's very cartoony in an anime way with the plethora of characters.

It's in the fantasy genre. You're a student at one of the major cities' Universities, learning about Enchanting, which is the last vestige of magic remaining after 'The Golem Wars.' Golems in the game are more sentient than in most, and come in many different forms, usually under the control, or orders, of humans. A group of exceptionally powerful Golems during wartime, eventually nearly devastated the world, and were finally taken down and sealed off or destroyed.

Until...now. One of the 'Devil Golems' comes into your relatively peaceful life, and destroys the school and city. You and your friends run in to her, and she effectively kills one, and makes your other friend her seeming slave. You escape with your life, barely, after a blackout and some bad dreams, and wake in a cell.

You fight 'normal golems' in the game, and sort of 'collect them' - you buy or find a 'core,' then have it synthesized in to an actual golem, which can be one of the members of your active party (yourself and up to 3 other NPCs or golems).

Each character/NPC/golem has a primary attribute, such as earth, wind, fire, water, light or dark, and has different abilities or skills, and different reactions when going against other elemental golems or NPCs.

Your weapons and skills are all trainable, by finding or buying (some can only be won or discovered) weapons or skills, and spending points you accumulate to learn them, or to increase your primary stats (HP, EP, Direct Attacks, Ranged Attacks, Support, and Agility).

Your character (Atsuma), NPCs, and all golems can be trained the same way, although golems don't learn new skills.

The fight mode is much like Final Fantasy 7 or 8 or so - turn based. If the old FF style turn based combat turned you off, you'll probably have the same issue here. You can string together combos of multiple characters at certain times, and build up power to unleash your choice of special attacks (which new ones can also be found in the game).

The story is decent, if not spectacular, and you eventually head off to find the Ice Queen (super-Golem) to free your friend, and to stop her from destroying other cities. You interact with people who are either trying to revive the Fire Emperor (another super-golem), or trying to resist reviving him, as these super golems were the cause of the world nearly perishing, etc. You meet a fair number of NPCs that you can use as team members, lose them at times, and the world itself seems fairly large - not as big as Oblivion, but it seems larger than Assassins Creed as an example.

Overall - it's not bad. It's not a game that you 'have to buy a PS3 for' (I remain unsure there are any of those yet, but that's another argument, no? ), but if you like the older Final Fantasy and other turn based anime-ish combat type RPGs, it's worth checking out.

The game suffers from occasional stutters, such as menu navigation, or the 'flash scenes' when you go from movement mode in to a fight and the screen morphs from your character into some symbols and light, but normal action and movement is fine, including the fights, which have some nice 'special attack' special effects, like summoning a phoenix and hurling it at your enemies. While some of the specials are very cool to watch, like everything, you don't always feel like watching it, so a limited fast forward is available, as well as allowing your team to fight on 'auto-battle mode,' so you don't choose each of their movements and attacks (which seems to take a lot of the little strategy in the game out of it, but to each their own..).

Summary:
Overall: 7.5 - 2.5 or more higher than Lair, but below Oblivion.
Graphics: 8 - the game is pretty, animation is nice, pretty game overall, just not 'stunning.'
Gameplay: 7.5 - This one's subjective. It may become repetitive, as there are a LOT of random fights..
Story: 7 - interesting enough to keep playing for a while to see what happens.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

So, I took a look at upcoming titles - it seems the only PS3 titles I'm 'waiting for' at this point seem to be:
Killzone 2 (when/if it ever comes out)
Haze - May '08
Resistance 2 - ??/late '08

The next GTA is cross-platform, so have my doubts if it's worth getting on the PS3 versus PC.

There have been rumors about a Crysis port to PS3. If that happens, I might get it.

Motorstorm 2 - no interest unless it's a far superior game to the first one.

That's about it right now that I'm aware of..

PS - I did pick up a Dual Shock 3 from Japan, works fine on US consoles, and arrived within a week of ordering..

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

MGS is sure to move some PS3 boxes...

@Lou

Quote:

Here the developers of Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 tout the Wii version as the best version of the game. They feel it offers the best online experience and best gameplay because of the unique controls.

I guess that's not the whole story. As these guys admitted themselves, the 360 and PS3 version suffered from frame drops. You can't be really proud on a version like that?

Even in the time when the Amiga was king, there was the race for better GFX. But in the 2D times, it was much easier to keep a steady framerate. As you say yourself, if the pretty pictures don't interfere with framerate, etc., why not? I prefer both.

On the other hand, some people would argue Sensi is still king.

360 and PS3 military uses have been posted to these threads at one time or another.

Now the Wii gets into the act.

US Military Engineers have developed a bomb-defusing robot that is maneuvered by the Wiimote

@jiyong

Quote:

Even in the time when the Amiga was king, there was the race for better GFX. But in the 2D times, it was much easier to keep a steady framerate. As you say yourself, if the pretty pictures don't interfere with framerate, etc., why not? I prefer both.

Fair point, both gameplay and graphics are important but it just seems like there are no curious alternative titles coming to the PS3 right now! Where are the Katamari Damacys or Viewtiful Joes of the new generation? I much prefer 'stylised' games to stupidly trying to recreate real life (other than sims)- I get real life every day I need escapism! Also, will there be a next gen Rogue Squadron? I just checked it out on Youtube and it looks great!

I'd buy a PS3 for Stardust HD, Warhawk, a chance to try YDLinux, Dualshock 3 and backwards compatiblity- right now those reasons don't justify £300 and backwards compatibility has been thrown out - your loss Sony

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@jiyong

Quote:

jiyong wrote: @Lou Quote: Here the developers of Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 tout the Wii version as the best version of the game. They feel it offers the best online experience and best gameplay because of the unique controls. I guess that's not the whole story. As these guys admitted themselves, the 360 and PS3 version suffered from frame drops. You can't be really proud on a version like that? Even in the time when the Amiga was king, there was the race for better GFX. But in the 2D times, it was much easier to keep a steady framerate. As you say yourself, if the pretty pictures don't interfere with framerate, etc., why not? I prefer both. On the other hand, some people would argue Sensi is still king.

I would prefer both as well but again I feel developers have to know when enough is enough. Smooth framerates are part of the immersion of the game...responsive controls... Those are the things that keeps it fun, when you are in total control. I've only played FPS games online a couple of times because I hate the jumping effect of lag...ruins the experience for me.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @jiyong Quote: Even in the time when the Amiga was king, there was the race for better GFX. But in the 2D times, it was much easier to keep a steady framerate. As you say yourself, if the pretty pictures don't interfere with framerate, etc., why not? I prefer both. Fair point, both gameplay and graphics are important but it just seems like there are no curious alternative titles coming to the PS3 right now! Where are the Katamari Damacys or Viewtiful Joes of the new generation? I much prefer 'stylised' games to stupidly trying to recreate real life (other than sims)- I get real life every day I need escapism! Also, will there be a next gen Rogue Squadron? I just checked it out on Youtube and it looks great! I'd buy a PS3 for Stardust HD, Warhawk, a chance to try YDLinux, Dualshock 3 and backwards compatiblity- right now those reasons don't justify £300 and backwards compatibility has been thrown out - your loss Sony

I think SensiSoccer is on XBLA....

I believe Factor 5 will release a Rogue Squadron Wii-make for the Wii, hopefully combining both GC games. I believe the second one (Rebel Assault) pumped out more polygons (20M) than any Xbox game ever did... They are rumored to be working on a Kid Icarus game for the Wii.

There's one thing that Sony has been seriously lacking on their newwest platform and it's RPG's. Yea they have a few, which are also on 360, but they need guys like Square, Atlus, Capcom, Konami, Sega and many others to start pumping out the sequels or new RPG's. One reason why I keep buying PS2 games is because they have a steady flow of RPG's. Sega, in my opinion, needs to get their act together and release some true sequels that players have asked for. Phantasy Star 5, Shining in the Darkness 4, Panzer Dragoon Saga 2, etc. Square is coming out with Final Fantasy 13 soon, but it feels like forever. Capcom needs Breath of Fire 6 and Konami could make an awesome Castlevania RPG or even a sequel to SoTN, with todays graphics and depth.

Ed

_________________
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8GB CF With tons of Classics

AmigaOne X5000

Raspberry PI 400 - PiMiga 1.5
"That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" - Someone important, but I forgot who

Taking into consideration my kudos to Sony some time ago for aggressively using the price weapon, I think they are doing well at the moment. If they only released that Dual Shock 3 in my region I'd be a happy camper - should be coming this month, I'm hoping. I've just completed some games on the Xbox 360 and have only now begun to look closer into my dust-collecting PS3 collection, I could really use rumble right about now...

I do think it would take a miracle for Sony to reach last-generation percentage of the market, I doubt this wil happen. I also think Xbox 360 will probably exceed Xbox 1 during the time it is on market, market-share wise and definitely in units shipped. However, I expect Sony to hold on to PS3 for longer than Microsoft will market the current Xbox, so Sony can cumulatively of course continue to erode that market-share - different strategies for different folks.

I think it would be wise for Microsoft to plant the next Xbox on the market before Sony the next time around as well. That part of the strategy has worked. But Microsfot has failed to cost-reduce their system or drop their prices in an orderly fashion and to their detriment IMHO. The quality issues may have contributed to this, but again, I think they could have been more agressive had they wanted to. With a far larger lead before PS3 hit its stride, the Xbox 360 would have been in a better position.

The one party that seems to have played all their cards right is Nintendo. Maybe I should finally buy that Wii, just to show my respect. I still wonder about the longetivity of the Wii, though.

@edponpon

Quote:

There's one thing that Sony has been seriously lacking on their newwest platform and it's RPG's.

Definitely the case. This year I put the 360's RPGs above the PS3 in desireability -- Fable 2, Might & Magic: Dark Messiah, Lost Odyessy. Elevon -- are in 2008. I think there are a few more but those are the one's I'm looking forward to.

Quote:

Square is coming out with Final Fantasy 13 soon, but it feels like forever

Depending on which site you read some mark this as late 2009. So yeah still forever. Square is releasing an Unreal engine RPG -- The Last Remnant too. But it is for both platforms.

@jtsiren

The Wii has it's share of niche RPG's already. The GC Fire Emblem sequel is one standout. Baroque is releasing soon, Opoona is out now. Final Fantasy:Crystal Chronicles 2 is coming from Squenix (Square-Enix). There are others in Japan, but who can keep up...

Also, you could supplement them with Gamecube RPG's which were few, but truly some of the best ever: Fire Emblem, Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos 1&2, Skies of Arcadia:Legends.

Don't worry, the Wii will never lose backwards compatibility. With the Wii, you can also download the old classic RPG's on the virtual console that you may have originally missed.

Or do what I do and just play World of Warcraft. The best $13 you'll spend on any given month.


But about the PS3, games (even sequels of PS2 games) will be slow coming because of the "arms race". Every developer wants to release a title "worthy" of the PS3 and have it have the best graphics. Hence development times have gone up to the 2-3 year range. It'll be too late by then...

Developers should focus on rock solid 720p games rather than stuttering 1080p games.

If MS can release a BR-equipped 360 for the holidays, Sony is doomed. However, I have heard that Sony is increasing the cost of the BR lenses to 3rd party manufacturers so that a 360 with BR would cost more than a PS3. With software sales for the 360 much higher, I think Microsoft could eat it though...
Atleast the 360 has backwards compatibility....and a better library so far.

These price increases have lead to higher priced stand-alone BR players since Toshiba stopped making HD-DVD players... Thanks Sony!

@Lou

Quote:

If MS can release a BR-equipped 360 for the holidays, Sony is doomed. However, I have heard that Sony is increasing the cost of the BR lenses to 3rd party manufacturers so that a 360 with BR would cost more than a PS3. With software sales for the 360 much higher, I think Microsoft could eat it though... Atleast the 360 has backwards compatibility....and a better library so far.

What Sony would never take advantage of market postion...

Rumors of Lite-On making an internal Blu-Ray for the 360 are again surfacing. It'd be interesting to see if a BR equiped 360 does come out. Microsoft in the past said it's too slow for DVD gaming access and they wouldn't do this.