@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: Quote: MikeB wrote: The PS3 Cell supports more hardware threads than currently sold dual-core PC CPUs My dual core laptop comes with a NV G84 CUDA enabled co-processor (on the motherboard) that supports 1Giga hardware threads. AMD Xenos supports 64 hardware threads. AMD RV670 supports thousands of simultaneous threads. AMD RV670 includes a "custom" RISC command processor. http://coachk.cs.ucf.edu/courses/CDA6938/UCF_1_25_08.pdf

Good Point Hammer! Any program should be written to take advantage of the complete platform. Comparing CPU to CPU is of interest to view performance but the total advantage depends on the total system.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-May-2008 at 06:02 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Broadway cpu FTW!

Personally I don't know much about the Wii. Played it a few times but I have the 360 and PS3 and I don't get enough time on either one let alone both. As such I don't really comment about the Wii as I just don't know and don't have time or desire to learn.

Is there much info released on the Broadway? Cell has quite a bit out and that's due to it's desire to reach out beyond consoles. Xenon a bit less then the Cell because it's to be a console CPU and not more general purpose. But, still quite a bit of info out there.

Of course the true winner of the game consoles this generation is IBM -- they make all 3 CPUs.

Gears of War 2 ---

Online fun!
CliffyB -- "Basically when you knock over an enemy, either by shooting them in the knees or in multiplayer knocking them down, you can walk up to them and press A - then you grab them and you have a human shield. If the enemies keep shooting at you eventually the body will decay, but you can break the neck of the guy, throw him off to the side - do whatever you want with him."

Always nice to read Amiga references from IBM and programmers, another one I found from a Heavenly Sword coder:

"I can’t exactly describe what I’ve been doing, but its extremely low level, what good console programming is all about. So thats what I’ve been doing, munging some data into formats that the different bits of the system can consume and then writing lots of code to manipulate it all as fast as possible. This is where the Cell architecture really starts to pay off, the SPUs are very powerful when programmed at a low level, with an MFC to move data and a decent integer ISA (as well as the float unit that everybody goes on about) they can do this kind of thing with ease. And because they are completely indepedent, you can use them to really leave the PU to other stuff.

Of course the fun bits is that its just like programming an Amiga’s Copper but N times more complex, just like the good ol’ days"

AmigaOS, although in need of much further development and redesign is pretty much the biggest asset which has been saved from the glorious Amiga legacy. Just imagine if the Amiga/BeOS mentality would eventually mingle with these technology advancements, what could be achieved in the long run!

One of the main complaints from the Amiga hardcore is that all supported hardware nowadays is pretty much non-special off the shelf technology. Amigans desire distinguishing innovative leading edge custom technology. That's what the Cell is, a radically new and better approach. Ideally we would eventually have a PS3/PS4 compatible home computers and desktops, not only running a fun to use OS with features such as screen dragging, tooltypes, datatypes, open and understanable file structures, etc, etc but also access to the best multimedia like movies and top games (and AmigaOS doesn't even need to support this natively, which would be a too large task, but it wouldn't matter to the end user as it's still an option on the same box.

The PS3 hardware is going to be sold almost everywhere for at least another 8 years and supported for much longer. It would be a great platform for AmigaOS4.x to mature on, before moving towards future Cell based systems (supporting new hardware costs a lot of time and effort, at this point IMO that's much better spend to address remaining issues with the OS itself).

I hope some IMO misinformed hatred and scepticism amongst parts of the Amiga community towards the PS3 and thus Cell technology will eventually vanish. If only all heads would be pointed in the same direction the Amiga community could achieve great thing and pursue long lost dreams.

Last edited by MikeB on 23-May-2008 at 12:21 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 23-May-2008 at 12:19 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 23-May-2008 at 12:15 AM.

@MikeB


Giving technical information or opinions disputing yours isn't hatred; they're just facts or disagreement.

Very few people 'hate the PS3' although there certainly are some, you only need to read PS3 game reviews to see that one. trying to convince others of it's superiority when you don't counter other evidence or sidestep it (even 'ok, PS4 will have cell, please provide link stating this, request from both BrianK and myself)...is 'just more noise.'

That isn't all you post, but the last paragraph in the above post is really sort of amusing. I like my PS3 well enough, as do others, but opinions are not facts, and facts are not countered by posts to someone elses opinion, either. *shrug*

Not to mention 'Amigans being content with OS4 on PS3' has little to do with any one of us, regardless. I'll gladly run OS4 on my PS3, as soon as that is a possibility, and I think it would be one of the best platforms possible right now for OS4 were it a possibility.

Last edited by wegster on 23-May-2008 at 02:54 AM.
Last edited by wegster on 23-May-2008 at 12:35 AM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: Broadway cpu FTW! Personally I don't know much about the Wii. Played it a few times but I have the 360 and PS3 and I don't get enough time on either one let alone both. As such I don't really comment about the Wii as I just don't know and don't have time or desire to learn. Is there much info released on the Broadway? Cell has quite a bit out and that's due to it's desire to reach out beyond consoles. Xenon a bit less then the Cell because it's to be a console CPU and not more general purpose. But, still quite a bit of info out there. Of course the true winner of the game consoles this generation is IBM -- they make all 3 CPUs.

Broadway is essentially a 740CL processor with Nintendo tweaks to match the tweaks done for Gekko from the 740GX. It's got a software programmable clock. The GX had programmable cache before it was cool to have programmable cache... The Gekko had 37 SIMD instructions like the G4 from Motorola...as does Broadway and a few more to boot over Gekko. It is an OoO executing general purpose cpu. Base clock speed is 731.25MHz but can reach 1GHz. It's been compared to a 1.5Ghz P4 in processing power at 731Mhz...

@wegster

Quote:

Giving technical information or opinions disputing yours isn't hatred; they're just facts or disagreement.

That's like putting words into my mouth...

Quote:

Very few people 'hate the PS3' although there certainly are some

I would say there are quite a few, but basically what you are saying is that you agree...

@BrianK

Gekko has 64bit SIMD (2X32-bit SIMD).

_________________
Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

Last week's Japanese HW sales:

PSP - 70,536
Wii - 41,572
Nintendo DS - 34,905
PlayStation 3 - 7,701
PlayStation 2 - 7,022
Xbox 360 - 1,474

MSG4 releases June 12 in Japan...


OMG! CUTSCENES FTL!
Quote:

The latest issue of PSW magazine says that MGS4 features 90-minute cutscenes (plural!)

SPOILER ALERT:
This is Snake's last MSG, however there are plans for an MSG5...

Last edited by Lou on 23-May-2008 at 12:11 PM.

Just popping in to report on the Xbox 360 Steering Wheel "retrofit", I finally managed to send my wheel back a few weeks ago after having the repair box loiter around for months. It came back in two weeks. Looks new or perfect refurbished, was packed very well too. Not that I had any problems, but at least now I've had them take care of whatever issue that there was they wanted to take care of.

As for the comparison of current-gen HD consoles, GameSpot has made a new graphics comparison:

Quote:

A solid year's gone by since we ran our last Xbox 360 vs. PlayStation 3 graphics comparison. The differences between the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3 have diminished with every passing batch of games, but some variation still exists between the two machines. Our first graphics comparison between the two consoles showed that the Xbox 360 looked better on most of the games, oftentimes drastically so. The second graphics comparison showed that the PlayStation 3 looked nearly as good as the Xbox 360 in some games, and actually looked better in a few as well. Now with both consoles well into their respective life cycles, developers have had plenty of time to figure out the nuances required to code beautiful games. With our third batch of games, the two machines seem evenly matched. The two trade blows on various games, each with its own set of advantages.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6191251/

So, the conclusion remains the same and the difference elusive as always. No matter how many hundreds of thread pages on AW.net we have wasted on this over the past year or two, the only clear-cut issue remains with the size of the media and the general conclusion that theoretically the SPUs certainly have more power than Xbox 360 all in all. Personally, I would have done just fine without a PS3 added to my stable, on the other hand, I probably would have done just as well with just the PS3 had I not had an Xbox 360 to begin with.

I think where PS3 has managed to make a difference in a years time are the price-cuts/feature-cuts that have resulted in a far more sellable package than the launch PS3 was, for which I have and continue to give kudos to Sony. Microsoft has missed many an opportunity here by being conservative in their pricing, to their detriment in my opinion.

Microsoft will probably land a much higher market percentage this time around, Nintendo will likely win. Sony will definitely pass Xbox 360 numbers especially if Microsoft launches a next-gen system and diminishes the life-span of Xbox 360 compared to PS3, but what the actual, numbers-wise, market-share difference is when the first of the current-gen starts to bow out... who knows.

All I know is that this thread is going nowhere seeing the commentary on the last few pages has really not changed since last year, just the same going forwards and backwards without much agreement on anything and references of imaginary future products bordering fandom lunacy.

Last edited by jtsiren on 25-May-2008 at 04:37 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: Giving technical information or opinions disputing yours isn't hatred; they're just facts or disagreement. That's like putting words into my mouth...

Uh, no. It's called a response to something you said, specifically:
Quote:

I hope some IMO misinformed hatred and scepticism amongst parts of the Amiga community towards the PS3 and thus Cell technology will eventually vanish. If only all heads would be pointed in the same direction the Amiga community could achieve great thing and pursue long lost dreams.

You put your own words into your mouth. I laughed at it, because it's as if you're intentionally trying to play the victim somehow, and it's a simplistic viewpoint, made as if the PS3 'superiority' is a foregone conclusion, as well as that the users of OS4 (which you yourself remain NOT one of, AFAIK, still ), somehow have anything whatsoever to do whether or not OS4 ever runs on the PS3.
Quote:

Quote: Very few people 'hate the PS3' although there certainly are some I would say there are quite a few, but basically what you are saying is that you agree...

Shall I use your own 'logic' here, with - that's like putting words in my mouth?

Irrelevant. You were talking about the Amiga community, very few of which AFAIK, are posting on 360 and/or PS3 fan sites, which is what my reference to 'some' was. If by agree, that I think there are some people, most OUTSIDE of 'the Amiga community' that are 360 fanboys to the point of 'anything PS3 is bad,' sure. But don't try to extend that into the 'Amiga community' or twist it into anyone that disagrees with you being 'one of them.'

Last edited by wegster on 25-May-2008 at 05:04 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

I still don't see what you said really reflected upon what I said. IMO it seems you read things I haven't actually stated.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster I still don't see what you said really reflected upon what I said. IMO it seems you read things I haven't actually stated.

That's ok, not like it's the first time we don't see or communicate eye to eye, will leave it at that then.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Lou

Quote:

OMG! CUTSCENES FTL! Quote: The latest issue of PSW magazine says that MGS4 features 90-minute cutscenes (plural!)

90+ minutes of cutscenes? Egads. Someone here is convinced the Cell CPU makes for better games because developers have to be more conscious of the work. Then clearly the opposite is true of Blu-Ray. It's widened up the area for 90 minutes of non-gameplay in a game. Really I want to play a game. If I want to watch a video there are much better (and less expensive) works coming out of motion picture studioes around the world. MGS4 makers must have needed some excuse to fill up the Blu-Ray disc and enhancing the gameplay to do it was just too darned expensive.

@Lou

Thanks for the info on Broadway. Sounds like a nice little low powered usage but powerful CPU. Is there plans to sell it, like the Cell? Or are there plans to simply use it for gaming, such as the Xenon?

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Thanks for the info on Broadway. Sounds like a nice little low powered usage but powerful CPU. Is there plans to sell it, like the Cell? Or are there plans to simply use it for gaming, such as the Xenon?

The IBM PPC G3 740CL is commercially available. On the GX, Nintendo had IBM replace the 1 64bit integer unit with 2 32bit units. I assume Nintendo's version would have some 32-bit units as well...to maintain compatibility with GC software...

@MikeB
Quote:

Of course the fun bits is that its just like programming an Amiga’s Copper but N times more complex, just like the good ol’ days

Which means there's 1/(N*2) the number of people truly interested or capable. At some point the work to program everything at a low level isn't worth the payback and is cost prohibitive. This leaves the need for good tools. Heck Sony realized this by announcing new tools at E3 coming for the PS3 development.

Quote:

Just imagine if the Amiga/BeOS mentality would eventually mingle with these technology advancements, what could be achieved in the long run!

Egads this is food for those just to swat the staleness and missing things on these systems out of the sky. Yeah users will all flock to a BeOS with it's crappy printing system, poor browsers, half backed ethernet stack, single user mindset, lack of killer app, lack of productivy apps, heck lack of apps, if it was on the Cell.

Quote:

Cell is, a radically new and better approach

It's evolutionary. Going from CPU+DSP into an integrated form factor isn't all that radical. I see it as a natural process computers get smaller, faster, and reach out to combine more functions on 1 piece of silicon.

Quote:

One of the main complaints from the Amiga hardcore is that all supported hardware nowadays is pretty much non-special off the shelf technology ... The PS3 hardware is going to be sold almost everywhere for at least another 8 years and supported for much longer. It would be a great platform for AmigaOS4.x

So Amigas are crying out for special hardware but the PS3 w/ a 'special CPU' and commodity components moving into a commodity CPU (if Sony gets their way) is going to hold this mantle of special hardware? HUH?

Quote:

misinformed hatred and scepticism amongst parts of the Amiga community towards the PS3 and thus Cell technology will eventually vanish

Yup the Amiga community all hates us some Cell! No one hates the Cell silly boy. They simply don't swallow the marketing hype from Sony.

@BrianK

Quote:

It's evolutionary. Going from CPU+DSP into an integrated form factor isn't all that radical.

The SPEs aren't DSPs, if that's what you are referring to.

Quote:

Yup the Amiga community all hates us some Cell! No one hates the Cell silly boy.

Trying to do worse than Wegster with regard to pretending I stated something I didn't?

@MikeB

Quote:

The SPEs aren't DSPs, if that's what you are referring to.

The SPEs are closer to DSP (optimized for; floating point math on sequential data) than to CPU (optimized for; branch, interger+floating point on random data) are they not?

Wii games continue to dominate Amazon . com last week:
01. Mario Kart w/ Wii Wheel—Nintendo (Wii)
02. Wii Fit—Nintendo (Wii)
03. Guitar Hero III Bundle—Activision (Wii)
04. Grand Theft Auto IV—Rockstar (360)
05. Grand Theft Auto IV—Rockstar (PS3)
06. Rock Band Special Edition—MTV (Wii)
07. Wii Play w/ Remote—Nintendo (Wii)
08. We Ski—Namco Bandai (Wii)
09. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures—Eidos (PC)
10. Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures*—LucasArts (Wii)