@all really

What if...
An X86 OS4 port is allowed with the following provision;
X86 HW meant to run AOS must run some form of dongle
that renders said HW absolutely incapable of running any
version of M$ Windoz (Vista included). No exceptions.
If this point were non-negotiable, I wonder how many
that advocate moving AOS to so called commodity HW
would still come along for the ride (if said dongle does
not forbid Linux or cripple the HW in any other way).
If it's really about having cheap, readily available HW,
such a blatantly anti-M$ condition should not be much
of an impediment to the X86 AOS advocates.

This is more of a thought experiment than a suggestion,
as I'm sure there might be legal threats from a certain
party that could be injured in such a scheme (but if
there was any justice it would become compulsory
throughout the entire computer industry)

Last edited by Maczilla on 30-Jan-2006 at 07:05 PM.

@Maczilla

You could count me in anytime, provided the hw isn't an old expensive custom mb. I don't care about Windows.

On the other hand I don't see what it would really change. AFAIK most of the Amiga One users also have PCs running Windows. Even some OS4 developpers said they had played some PC games, and my guess is they do run Windows (then these self-righteous say they're not interested into x86 hw ) . In fact, your suggestion only adress the fears of the hypocriticall ones saying they're against x86 hw because everybody would run Windows while actively supporting Microsoft by running Windows themselves. (on another scale, it's like MacOS users bashing Windows but giving money to Microsoft for MSOffice - and saying that it's the best office suite in the world).

Quote:

I wonder how many that advocate moving AOS to so called commodity HW would still come along for the ride

Read the thread again. The ones advocating moving AOS to x86 comodity hw are the ones that chose not to support Microsoft by running Windows. Since they don't want to run it, I don't see why they would mind your dongle.

@Maczilla

can't we just put this thread to bed? Its become just a waste of bandwidth IMHO.

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@Maczilla

In fact, you could just read the thread. First page, first post, and you've got the answer :

Quote:

Ok, so my opposition will say something like "but, if it runs Windows, they'll just run Windows, not AmigaOS". Dudes... Newsflash! They're already doing that. No one will accidently run AmigaOS rather than Windows. Everyone running AmigaOS, or MorphOS, made that decision. They're early supporters, they see something better. So they absolutely will run things on AmigaOS, if they can run them on AmigaOS. This is exactly how Linux has been growing.

Saves a lot of reinventing the wheel :)

Double post, sorry

Last edited by t3g on 30-Jan-2006 at 11:16 PM.

@Maczilla

Quote:

Maczilla wrote: @all really What if... An X86 OS4 port is allowed with the following provision; X86 HW meant to run AOS must run some form of dongle that renders said HW absolutely incapable of running any version of M$ Windoz (Vista included). No exceptions. If this point were non-negotiable, I wonder how many that advocate moving AOS to so called commodity HW would still come along for the ride (if said dongle does not forbid Linux or cripple the HW in any other way). If it's really about having cheap, readily available HW, such a blatantly anti-M$ condition should not be much of an impediment to the X86 AOS advocates. This is more of a thought experiment than a suggestion, as I'm sure there might be legal threats from a certain party that could be injured in such a scheme (but if there was any justice it would become compulsory throughout the entire computer industry)

The point of the dongle is not to prevent the running of other OS'es, it's to prevent piracy of AmigaOS. I wouldn't buy hardware that was artificially limited to running certain OS'es, and I wouldn't honor any petty company who makes decisions that arrogantly reduce the value of the product I'm buying in that way.

The goal is to increase the value to the customer, not decrease it.

Frankly, it's none of anyone's damned business what i run on my machine. Even Microsoft would think twice before doing something that seedy. Why not just make the dongle agnostic?

Last edited by T_Bone on 31-Jan-2006 at 05:05 AM.
Last edited by T_Bone on 31-Jan-2006 at 04:59 AM.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

@umisef whoi said Quote:

The typical attitude towards running AmigaOS in WinUAE seems to be "but it just doesn't FEEL right. It just doesn't feel as instantaneous as a real Amiga; The mouse pointer just doesn't feel as if it is glued to the mouse, like even on the lowly A500" (paraphrased from many many such comments I have seen over the last decade).

That used to be my experience, but since getting a modern PC (fast CPU, fast gfx-card, Win XP, etc) WinUAE feels just like Amithlon - although sometimes it's actually faster since Amithlon's support for hardware-accelerated graphics is patchy unless you use a really old gfx-card (e.g. GF2Ti, which is no good for 3D games on Windoze these days).

If Amithlon was still developed, I'm sure it would be the ultimate AmigaOS experience - but it hasn't been for a long time, so it isn't. While WinUAE continues to be developed, and faster hardware continues to come out. It's sad, but Amithlon has been limping along for a long time now, and I finally got around to shooting the poor dog, to put it out of it's misery. (Translation: I dumped my aging Amithlon PC for a swizzy new PC that Amithlon hasn't a hope in hell of running on.)

P.S. If you want a reply from me, please PM to let me know where you replied, as otherwise I am unlikely to see it.

_________________
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@ChrisH

Aaaaaaaaaaaargh. I thought this thread wa dropping off the list..

Looks like the damn formatting of the page will be fuxx0red a while yet !!

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@The_Editor

Bump

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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
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@Samurai_Crow

From http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=18848&forum=2&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=0

Quote:

Have you ever tried to buy a computer without Windows preinstalled?

Yes i.e. purchased a laptop (1) and a 2-way server (2) from national (Oz) level vendors (with Oz government certification).

Examples
1. www.pioneercomputers.com.au i.e. preinstalled with Linspire 5.0**
2. www.pluscorp.com.au, i.e. zero operating system**.

**Already owned/access several MS licenses via MS Direct Access Action pack(for biz).

Quote:

I have, and neither Dell nor Gateway would discount me the difference in price

That’s not how the legal consumer framework “offer” and “acceptance” work (in most British based system). The vendor “offers” and customer can either "accept" or "reject" the offer.

Quote:

That means Microsoft gets paid whether the computer ships with Windows or not.

Refer to piracy rates for the indication of new PCs without a commercial OS.
One has to keep in mind that most A1 vendors are not even second tier PC vendors.

Quote:

think the only way to get a computer without an OEM licence of Windows stuck to it is to buy a kit and assemble the computer yourself.

Factor in second and third tier PC vendors.

@Fransexy
Quote:

it´s sad but true: Microsoft says Don't Sell PCs Without Operating System

Piracy rates indicates otherwise.

Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 10:52 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 10:48 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Seer

Quote:

Actualy I find that the PC world is moving slower the last few years. And offcourse it is mostly more speed and nothing really new.. Except perhaps for the PPU (http://www.ageia.com/).

Refer to http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=226&type=expert&pid=3
for doing effective physics on DX9c GpGPU (ATI style). ATI plans to compete with Ageia.

Also, refer to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/04/21/drc_fpga_module/page2.html
for Hypertransport enabled custom FPGA co-processors on existing Opteron Socket 940 i.e. instead of limited PCI-X or PCI-E bandwidth, these custom co-processors has direct access to Hypertranport 2.0 links (up to 12.8 GBps per link) and dual MCHs (6.4GBps).

PS; In theory, one could mount almost any processors via HTT/MCH bridge board e.g. (HTT enabled and MCH) IBM 925 NB and PowerPC 970. AMD's Socket 940 provides three HTT links, dual MCH lines and ~89 watt rails. HTX is a standardize slot for HTT links.

Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 11:30 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 11:22 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 11:21 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 11:15 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 02-May-2006 at 11:12 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

I wondered why the Recent Discussions list was suddenly wider than my screen, then I noticed this thread had been revived, with it's 45+ pages. Someone really needs to mod AW.net to split it into multiple lines :-/

Personally I think it would be better to start a new thread, as IMHO neither of the two new posts has much to do with the "current" topic (x86 vs PPC for new AmigaOS).

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

Someone really needs to mod AW.net to split it into multiple lines :-/

This will only happen when the "Website Bugs" thread reaches the right screen border.

Quote:

Personally I think it would be better to start a new thread, as IMHO neither of the two new posts has much to do with the "current" topic (x86 vs PPC for new AmigaOS).

In contrast to your post, Hammers posts are on topic. They were in response to Samurai_Crow who was listing (imho bogus) reasons "why OS4 x86 can not happen".

@Hammer

Don't have the link handy (Think it was on pro-networks, to lazy to search) but the PhysX PPU can calculate more objects then a state of the art nVidia (IIRC 7800) GFX card could render. So if nVidia wants their GPU to do what the PPU can do now allready the have some work to do.. So that's why I think it might become more interesting. Next chapter; The PPU wars..

Last edited by Seer on 02-May-2006 at 07:21 PM.

_________________
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Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Seer

Quote:

Don't have the link handy (Think it was on pro-networks, to lazy to search) but the PhysX PPU can calculate more objects then a state of the art nVidia (IIRC 7800) GFX card could render.

Define "state of the art".

There are multi-thread and dynamic branch issues with the current NV G7x cores e.g. refer to http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=226&type=expert&pid=2

Quote:

So if nVidia wants their GPU to do what the PPU can do now allready the have some work to do.. ..

For NV, refer to G80 for DX10 class GPU.

Last edited by Hammer on 03-May-2006 at 03:33 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote: @T_Bone Quote: Someone that wouldn't have spend [$800 to buy AmigaOS] in the first place wouldn't harm [AmigaOS] by not buying it. No, but would as many of those who did have enough to spend buy AmigaOS if it's available for free?

Free? You mean pirate it? If you can't even get a few thousand people willing to pay for it, it's dead already. The $800 price tag just cements it, if you think people don't want to pay for it at all! Who's going to pay $800 for something they don't think is worth anything?

Quote:

That's enough for me in this thread. I really can't be bothered any longer.

No need to bother with the thread, just check back every once in a while and snipe at a half-year old post... oh wait.

_________________
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@Hitback

Quote:

Thanks for poniting that out It has always been my opinion that Apple is shooting its self in the foot by moving to X86.

That opinion has been debunked. Refer to Apple's fiscal Q4-2006 earnings http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/oct/18results.html

Apple's PC unit sales growth is twice the industry’s rate.

Quote:

Why? Lets face it the Mac is a fashion statement it is for the guy and Gal that wants to say look how stylish my Mac is compared to your PC even thought your PC has the same software and more running at twice the speed. Why would I bother with a MacBook Pro when I can pick up a Dell Inspirion for about 1200.00 loaded with goodies and save about $800.00.

Emmm, note why
1. Dell has taken over Alienware.
2. HP has taken over Voodoo PC.

There are sizable demographic groups with high disposable income.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

would be nice if they disposed of some of it this way !!



oh .. And thanks for bumping this damn thread.

_________________
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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@T_Bone

Quote:

Even microsoft wern't aware just how many people were still using Rev A untill there was a problem with IOS.VXD that made a loop happen too fast and crash on AMD 300's and higher. They released a fix for Rev B (the OEM version) but were surprised at the millions still running Rev A who couldn't use it.

One solution was to turn off CPU's internal cache. It also affected Win95 4.00.950a oem version.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

That opinion has been debunked. Refer to Apple's fiscal Q4-2006 earnings http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/oct/18results.html Apple's PC unit sales growth is twice the industry?s rate

interesting definition of "debunking"

According to that press release their growth rate (of Macs) is 30%.
Before the switch was first announced their growth rate was 40%...

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