@AmiGame

I do have a wintel machine, if in an hypothetical world where AOS4 were to be ported over to x86 and my motherboard were supported it would be awesome, but still if a careful list of motherboards were to be chosen, I would rather buy one of these x86 motherboard against those existent today or planned in any shape or form for the near future, even if (just god would know why) one x86 board were to be supported I would (probably) choose it, as it would mean (a) cheaper and (b) more powerful hardware.

Now if you talk me about some PPC hardware that was to be available with x86 performance, price and availability (namely PS3 or other cell architecture) I could think about it... but then I talk of a reality that exists today.

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Remaining item would be AOS4... How much then would you be willing to pay a new OS for your wintell machine ?

I wouldn't pay more then what MacOSX costs...

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BTW I thought you were more interested in AROS, WinUAE/ Morphos ?

I'm interested in anything Amiga, most encapsulate it in labels and semantics, for me if it barks as one... it has to be a dog, if you get the picture I rather see them working as one then as separated..

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@Rogue

Quote:

Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications. We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

I would kill to see that in action.
I for one trust Hyperion to have the know how in the software departmant as well as in managment so, even if it is very hard, I will wait as long as it takes to see what will happend and when the time comes I'm more than ready to support your hard work.

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@Serpi

Nor have more raw power... apple is well known for their stupidity

Last edited by pixie on 18-May-2006 at 06:18 PM.

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@Rogue

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So, pray, how would you like to attract masses of new users outside the Amiga market?

The sales of the C64DTV (70,000 units on the first DAY) might give you an idea where that market could be. I am sure many many ex-Amiga users would like to try out a "Amiga NG" type OS if it is marketed accordingly (Retro Games frontend, etc.).
The point is to lower the hurdle so that people don't have to pay a $1000 dollars for this "experience", but can buy the OS for something like 60 EUR. It's not only about the retro-thing, but this is a nice way of selling it. There would also be people who'd like to have that geeky OS beside other more "serious" OS and actually start to develop something for it.

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@joerg

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As long as you base everything on wrong assumtions your posts make no sense, Amiga Inc. doesn't own AmigaOS4.

No, they only own the rights to the Amiga name and the IP. Hmmm...what's the problem with that statement in view of these two facts?

Last edited by elatour on 18-May-2006 at 05:22 PM.

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@Rogue

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There are no customers outside the grounp of Amiga-fanatics.

No matter how you slice it, the main reason for this is no new hardware for close to 10 years!

And expensive desktop PPC only hardware with lackluster components will help this situation how exactly? And an AmigaOS for PPC only emebbed markets will drive up demand for the OS how exactly? And prey tell, on what desktop system will people develop for these embedded devices every time a PPC desktop manufacturer goes belly up or moves on?

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So, pray, how would you like to attract masses of new users outside the Amiga market?

By making the desktop hardware available and accessible to the masses, which will not happen over the mid to long term on the PPC no matter how much you wish it to. There are tons of ex-Amiga users and some curious non-Amiga users that would want to try the OS on stock x86 hardware or within virtual machines. This is a form of marketting that you are obviously unfamiliar with. At the very least, this would mean the possibility of people developping for OS4 on stock x86 hardware possibly for PPC emebbeded devices, which would basically be a win-win situation for you.

Last edited by elatour on 18-May-2006 at 06:22 PM.
Last edited by elatour on 18-May-2006 at 05:19 PM.

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@Rogue


Quote:

Quote: The sad thing is just that the OS4-partners didn't realize that from the start. The sad part is that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. How many examples of failed attempts on x86 exactly do you need? BeOS? Zeta? OS/2? Linux?

Zeta a failed attempt? Maybe some failed financial planning or managing mistakes, but > 100.000 sales is quiet a success for such an "attempt". Well better than < 2000 after 5 years anyway.

It's even more ridiculous to call Linux a "failed attempt". You can't be serious about that.

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I have been asking myself the same question, and I can tell you the reason - we are Amiga fans. All of us. That is why we do it. It certainly isn't for the money; if it where that, we wouldn't even have started it. To date, the development has swallowed a six-digit amount of Euros.

I know you're "Amiga fans" and I also think there is a big amount of idealism involved in development. You could be making a lot of money elsewhere but still decide to stay with us.
My question is just who is gonna pay for all this in the future? A six-digit sum is not paid easily, even when people are "Amiga fans". There are investors. Investors do not invest because they like the boing-ball & screen-dragging, but because they want to see a return from their investment.
How is this possible in the future, when there is no viable market to generate profits, as you said? Who would invest in further development?
You are still a commercially oriented company after all. You can't pump money into development without any ROI in sight.

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If you want to join the Mhz race, I invite you to use Windows.

I already use Windows (mainly for the reasons stated earlier). The Mhz race is fading, it's just that it's still used as a selling argument, because Joe Average doesn't know better.

Last edited by polka. on 18-May-2006 at 05:01 PM.

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@RogueQuote:

Rogue wrote: @polka. Quote: Reality flash, that's what people already do. That might be what YOU do, but that is not generally true. I still know a lot of amiga-only people. Besides browsers are just an example, it would go for every kind of software, essentially making the Amiga market totally unattractive for software development.

I also have heard that there are still some Amiga-only people. But that amount of people is marginally small. The rest is already using other OS because they can't afford being only able to browse 70% of the websites correctly, not able to prepare a PowerPoint presentation for their company, nor even use a decent office software.
When you widen the userbase by going x86, chances are higher that ports of software such as Open Office or Firefox actually happen. So I still can't accept this as an argument against x86, because that is what is already happening. This can be only changed by widening the developer base.

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No it isn't. Look at the situation of Yellow Tab and tell me why a company selling into the oh-so-profitable x86 market has filed fro Chapter 11?

You were saying that your current desktop market (license-dongled PPC) is not viable and doesn't generate enough returns. Now you are indirectly suggesting that also the x86 can't be profitable. So why start OS-development in the first place? There seems to be no way of changing that then.
Further, the financial situation of YT doesn't say anything about the viability of the x86 market. They sold over 100.000 copies which was generally regarded as a huge success and more than anybody had expected. That doesn't mean however that you are automatically doing a "good business". We don't know what exactly led to the financial difficulties. However, it's not the number of sales. That's why your argument is a bit flawed.

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Unless you have a very specialized customer base, desktop OSes on x86 are a no-go.

Well, AmigaOS has a quiet "specialized customer base", no?

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@Rogue

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Reason 4: There is no x86 in the embedded market

Huh? What embedded markets are we talking about? If you're just talking about mobile phons, PDAs and specialty industrial applications maybe, but not the appliance and thin client markets, where you see a myriad of devices using x86 compatible hardware, including Transmeta, VIA, AMD and many others.

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@pixie

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Well, if you don't want to hear what costumers have to say, be my guest...

Customer is someone who bought something...
Potential Customer is more likely what you had in mind I would think ? In which case a potential customer is someone who is definitetly considering buying an item (IMO). Which item are you considering buying ? Don't you have a windtell machine already which you would like to use to run AOS4 ? Would you really consider buying a new windtell machine to run AOS4 ?(Reference to "special IntelMac").

Remaining item would be AOS4... How much then would you be willing to pay a new OS for your wintell machine ?

BTW I thought you were more interested in AROS, WinUAE/ Morphos ?

Jerry

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@pixie

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Still... a x86 box would always be cheaper then a PPC one

Please, tell this to Apple as their x86 boxes aren't cheaper then their PPC boxes.

Ciao, Alfred

@Wol

Good point !!




Me too !!

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@ssolie

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But it is frustrating to see the same arguments over and over again on the front page instead of seeing topics about people using their computers to do something novel.

First people need hardware to do something novel on. Which is precisely the reason for these topics. And the best way to get as many of them as possible to do so, is to give people more accessible and affordable hardware platform choices not less, which be less likely as a desktop platform as time goes on. So the argument is quite valid.

I think that you'll see alot less of these arguements once/if there new Amiga PPC hardware, but they'll never go way, not unless you see some form of viable x86 option. In fact, you'll be more sure to see these arguments resurface again WHEN, NOT IF, the PPC manufacturer goes belly up or chose to move to greener pastures.

It's not the frustration that I comment on, it's the insistance on dumping on, insulting or criticizing the people who choose to continue discussing it, some of them newbies to these forums. It takes far less energy to ignore those topics and move on than it does to read through them and take the time to insult or belittle someone who has asked a legitimate question.

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Have to say yes, I would buy ANY platform that could run OS4+


Wol.

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@polka.

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What is so strange of that "idea" since Amiga Inc. owns the rights to it?

As long as you base everything on wrong assumtions your posts make no sense, Amiga Inc. doesn't own AmigaOS4.

@Rogue

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Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications. We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

Nice little tid-bit of info. It's a pity you can't show the video as I would definitely like to see it (as I'm sure many others would. I wonder how many rumor threads this will spawn? Anyway, it's nice to know that things are happening behind the scenes.

Hans

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@Seehund

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Oh yes! And Linux. And AROS. And *BSD. And ...

Oh, come on. The only thing that remotely threatens the position of Windows is Linux. AROS, BSD, you gotta be kidding.

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You mean just like with PPC or any other CPU, then.

Yes, the same problem exists with other CPU's, however, there aren't that many PowerPC boards and hence the selection of chipsets is limited.

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Even if this were entirely true, then neither has AmigaOS. Any impact on the embedded market, that is.

Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications. We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

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AHT had negotiated and were about to sign a licence deal for AOS4 on an STB when AInc did a U-turn on them, and before that AHT were asked by their advisors how much AInc would pay AHT for putting AmigaOS on their STB!

You clearly totally underestimate the power of the Amiga name.

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After the "Two More Weeks" and "When It's Done" slogans, perhaps it's time to adopt "Four More Years" from American politics? ;)

Spare me the cynical comments, I didn't specify any timeframe. Just wait and see. Or not, I don't care.

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@Rogue

Quote:

That might be what YOU do, but that is not generally true. I still know a lot of amiga-only people. Besides browsers are just an example, it would go for every kind of software, essentially making the Amiga market totally unattractive for software development.

20-30 ?

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The sad part is that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. How many examples of failed attempts on x86 exactly do you need? BeOS? Zeta? OS/2? Linux?

And how many success stories on PPC? Apple? or Apple business sense?

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Well, I got news for you. IF there had been an X86 version, it would have been similar to what there is now, for numerous reasons. Why do you suppose is there no MacOS X for stock PC's? Why do you suppose are Intel Macs not a penny cheaper than the PowerPC Macs?

The problem with this POV is that it would cost less to costumers, obviously...

Last edited by pixie on 18-May-2006 at 04:27 PM.

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@wolfe

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wolfe wrote: @Hans Well this thread is kinda like " Dawn of the Dead Horse" And maybe I was a bit conservative and really meant to say a thousand more times, since it didn't really take after the first hundred . . .

Darn it. More waiting...




I have to say that AROS is progressing. I wish that someone would develop a proper installation system though. It would need to allow dual-booting with windows. It would also help if it could read/write NTFS partitions. Actually, all Amiga OSes could use an NTFS filesystem driver. There's a beta for Morphos and AmigaOS 3.x on the aminet. Not sure how good it is as I don't have a MOS os classic machine to try it on.

Hans

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@Kronos

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Dunno, but 4.5 years aga I bought a new x86 box to run Amithlon, and I still think it would have been best for the community if that had been declared "OS4" by making it the official upgrade path.

Why not Amiga Forever, then? Both run OS 3.1, a clear path into the future for sure.

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But as allways they managed to snatch a defeat out of the hands of a certain victory

How much software actually comes from UAE/AmigaForever/Amithlon users?

Certain victory, yeah. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are gifted with foresight.

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