@Bobsonsirjonny,
Quote:

The Friedens have been approached to write the kernal for OS5.

The Friedens said they were approached, but were they? Reference this Bill Mcewen interview:

http://www.templeoftech.com/viewarticlepage.cka?articleid=62&pageid=1

Interviewer:
"During a recent IRC chat, The Frieden brothers said that
they were contacted by Amiga and asked if they were interested in developing the kernel for OS5...."

Bill Mcewen:
" I am surprised that the Frieden brothers would say that, but so be it. "

_________________
Here for the whimpering end

@Bobsonsirjonny

Quote:

Could Carl have also been asked to write the kernal for OS 5? /conspiracy mode off.

I sure hope so.

_________________
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hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny, Quote: The Friedens have been approached to write the kernal for OS5. The Friedens said they were approached, but were they? Reference this Bill Mcewen interview: http://www.templeoftech.com/viewarticlepage.cka?articleid=62&pageid=1 Interviewer: "During a recent IRC chat, The Frieden brothers said that they were contacted by Amiga and asked if they were interested in developing the kernel for OS5...." Bill Mcewen: " I am surprised that the Frieden brothers would say that, but so be it. "

Bill did not say that he had not approached them.. I read that as Amiga did approach them, but that they were surprised the Friedens went public about the discussion.

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote: @Bobsonsirjonny, Quote: The Friedens have been approached to write the kernal for OS5. The Friedens said they were approached, but were they? Reference this Bill Mcewen interview: http://www.templeoftech.com/viewarticlepage.cka?articleid=62&pageid=1 Interviewer: "During a recent IRC chat, The Frieden brothers said that they were contacted by Amiga and asked if they were interested in developing the kernel for OS5...." Bill Mcewen: " I am surprised that the Frieden brothers would say that, but so be it. "

I took that as Bill being surprised at them disclosing that publically as it puts a spanner in the 'OS5 project has been running for 2 years' works.

Regardless, I don't see point of conspiracy theories. What is needed is a bit more grounding in reality. Whatever Carl's personal motivations, I'm just glad that he's been posting because there seems to be a lot more rationality than usual in the threads he's created.

@Carl-S
Quote:

PS: I attended AmiWest this year to figure out how to get an updated Amiga. Now look at what has happened.

There should have been something for you to buy right there at the show. There should have been something last year as well.

I still believe the entire mess is rooted in a lack of action from Amiga Inc. They own the trademarks, etc. so they control the fate of the Amiga brand and everything behind it. We can point fingers at third parties but in the end, Amiga Inc. still holds the key. It is up to Amiga Inc. to work out the problems and move things forward.

To be blunt. If you want to buy a new Amiga, you better ring up Amiga Inc. and ask them why you can't buy it. Things are always more complex than this but it all boils down to Amiga Inc.

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@lavo

Quote:

lavo wrote: Here's my conspiracy theory - Carl is drumming up support for OS 5. We all know from Bill that OS 5 is definately on the cards, and is being developed in-house by Amiga Inc rather than by a third party. Isn't anyone else a little curious about the events in the last month or so? Bill pops up out of the blue for a Q&A with Amiga users, Discreet FX say they are going to buy Amiga Inc, then Carl turns up at Amiwest then does a hit-and-run on the forums. These aren't small time guys coming up with plans to make a new PPC board, or modify a set-top box board. These guys are big players in Amiga's history (well, not so much Bill!). Is Rebol the basis for OS 5? Something's up, but I just can't put my finger on it!

I've always found it interesting how these patterns emerge. Such things go in waves. (I see the similar types of "simultaneous events" on the REBOL channels.) Don't read too much into it or draw any conclusions. (See Jens Schönfeld AmiWest dinner banquet presentation for a very good point.)

My visit to AmiWest was to find new Amiga HW and catch up in general. The timing was right because the normal October REBOL DevCon was moved to Paris in May.

I don't know what OS 5 is, but unless it ships next month, I think OS 4 should remain the focus, and how to bring a much larger group of people to the Amiga experience, via the topic/poll of this forum.

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@Carl-S
i agree only if you are referring to the u.s market where pc is king.
it won't be the same in asia or south america,nor eastern europe.
An old pc will get more benefit from linux because it's free.Either os4 is opensource and it works or people have to purchase it and will demand software and service,where are they?
I reason reversely,you have a Rebol compiler if i am right.Let's use it as a resourcer.I download an app from any other os and resource it into Rebol language then i have to change api not engine to let it run on Rebol interpreter.
So even if i dream it is then possible to have audacity,firefox running on Rebol.
The Rebol os4 is then a kind of vm eating all opensource software around.
i'm adding that the toggle from ppc to intel is more the fact of intel than the one from apple.Microsoft is using competition between amd and intel to the benefit of amd (xbox).macintel is the answer from intel to push ms aside.just remember the ps2 by ibm,it's the same scenario played at reverse.I bet that vista(ps2) will drag along ms(ibm) to lose market shares to the benefit of apple(compaq)

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@Carl-S

Quote:

My visit to AmiWest was to find new Amiga HW

Did you really mean "HW"? Or did you mean "system", instead?
I'm asking only because it makes me wonder if you already knew about AOS4...

Quote:

I don't know what OS 5 is,

Nobody outside of Amiga, Inc. knows either, except for a few general concepts of dreamy nature

Quote:

but unless it ships next month, I think OS 4 should remain the focus,

Fully agreed.

saimo

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@thread

I'm interested to know why the people who voted No or Maybe. I think there's a difference between the poll question (Would you use OS4 if it ran on PC boxes/laptops?) and 'Do you think we should port OS4 to x86 hardware right now?'.

I think Carl's question was totally hypothetical and was making no presumptions about the effort required to port OS4 to PC hardware. Viewed in this light, I voted 'Yes' absolutely - I have 2 PCs at home and would buy and install OS4 on both if I could.

On the other hand I'm not sure this is something that is necessarily desirable at the moment, given the current level of resources. I would really like to see OS4 completed and shipping on reasonanly-priced PPC hardware by the end of this year. I guess getting a sufficiently-compatible OS4 on x86 would take longer.

I don't think the question is about the dangers of 'Joe User' thinking they might as well run Windows so they can use their favourite apps. I think it's about whether we as individuals would purchase and use OS4 on our existing PCs were it available.

Just my £0.02.

Cheers,

Mark

@jorkany

Quote:

One of the main reasons Apple went Intel is because no G5 was on the horizon cool enough to put into a notebook.

That's what happens when you don't wanna pay for r 'n d, or buy in large enough quantities to actually make it worthwhile anyway.

And yes, there was a low power 970 on the horizon.

Edit2: It was announced some time before apple announced its move. This means that apple knew about it before it announced anything. Although the 970FX took a hell of a lot of ttime to deliver, so most likely apple had already decided when IBM had it production ready.
:edit2-end

970FX

Although apple was no longer interested in being in the h/w market.
And I think their move was the right one.


@all, can we stop comparing apples and pears?

Lets be more specific than saying that 3GHz>2.

which is not necessarily the truth.

No stepping of the First p4-core was any good at all. The willamette performed unbelievably poor as well as having a design flaw which made the processor throttled down to preserve itself from oveheating whenever it ran at 100%.
1.8 GHz willamette < 1.4 GHz Tualatin.
(imho)
As a tech-geek I'd prefer if (when comparing processors) a few other numbers were included, such as Gflops or perhaps superpi-results

edit1: typo

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If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
/Ins

@Carl-S

I followed the discussion here as good as I can (certain lack of time today) and I think I should grab again important points already said by several others here:

It´s perhaps a not-so-good idea to get OS4 to x86 (aka Wintel) machines. One very important point already mentioned is the lazyness of most people to cope with "unusual" operating systems on a hardware the people are used to.

It will for sure lead to most of the "geeks" running Windows (or Linux) most of the time, just because it´s comfortable and satisfies the "urge for action" people have, in a very simple way (start the machine, don´t hit the cursor key to switch to AmigaOS, simply start e.g. Windows).

All things have to be colourful, loud, "amazing" (and meaningless). I often feel remembered for "Fahrenheit 451", as I watch the modern "computer society". Most people´s use of computers is simply pointless and unproductive in regards of creativeness. All the "thing" (speak: Wintel machine) has to do is being loud, full of special effects, preventing the user being confronted with (sometimes) uncomfortable questions and satisfying the need for even more "speed" (are Wintel machines really faster in terms of productiveness today? I don´t think so. But the GHz numbers increase, that´s enough for most people. They don´t know better, nobody is telling them that there is no real speed gain, as software gets bigger and bigger, too).

One very important point the amiga has (as already mentioned several times) is the very creative and effective way of doing things with it. I for myself have "refurbished" my A4000 a bit yesterday, changed the clock battery because of beginning leakage (after 14 years!), changed the sound card with a (even older than the machine) Toccata and, guess what, I´m enjoying my old machine even more! I watch it working, with a for today´s standards awfully low performance (really?), but it performs in reality awfully much better than every Wintel machine of this era could do!

Why it is this way? It´s the fact that the Amiga was a brilliant design, not only for the software, for the hardware too. Well, Zorro isn´t the standard solution of its time, it´s slow in the meanings of today´s technology. But it´s still sufficient for all days uses! Imagine a Zorro bus system running with 66MHz, 128Bit bus architecture and so on. What an awful fast machine we would have now, if it would have been developed further?

The point is, that we don´t need another OS for x86 machines. There are way enough operating systems with more or less success (most of them less) in the market. We don´t really need "cheap" hardware, we need hardware with the fun factor of creativity and efficiency (but not the efficiency in form of "most GHz for the (place your currency here)", instead, the efficiency in doing your work in the shortest amount of time).

If somebody gives us PPC based hardware with a "time" value comparable to the classic machines (my is in use for 14 years now. I don´t know anybody using a wintel machine such a long time. My A1000 still runs if switched on, most PCs died in this time from being not used!), where´s the point in moaning about, say, doubled price compared to a today´s standard wintel machine?

There simply isn´t any point. If the people who know about the fun, creativity and efficiency of the Amiga system buy and use this machines they will loose the fear of "given too much money for it" immediately. Is there any AmigaOne customer out there unsatisfied with the machine in respect of the relatively high price? These voices are whispering, if any exist. I for myself don´t regret the money I spend for my µA1 even for a single minute of use.

Well, to get the Amiga to the masses we have to do something in regards to the price, that´s clear.

What we surely not have to do is compete with the wintel mass market in price terms. There is no need to be as cheap as wintel machines. For what? Satisfying the purse but not the mental needs of the people?

We have to deliver a machine which carries emotions (a thing Apple managed to do with e.g. the ICube. But unfortunately they concentrated on case design only) in a way that satisfies and supports the mental needs of the user, not supressing them (as Windows do). Wintel hardware based Amigas wouldn´t do this, because it´s too easy to fall back to Windows (the "comfortable" way, no need for a little bit of thinking, "Windows will think and will be creative for me")

It should give fun to the creative people first, efficiency to the produktive people second and greatest ease of use to all the other people using computers as a way of spending some time to forget all days sorrows etc.

Even the hardcore gamers (some kind of mixture between the last mentioned group and so called "power users") can be reached, if we start to supply games with a real fun factor (not necessarily utilising 3D techniques).

Well, most of them are fans of first person shooters or such, but they often start some simple fun-games to get some relaxation from their "3D orgy". Let them play CS on their Wintel machine, it´s mostly well suited for it. We can´t compete with this machines for 3D "enjoyment" of the people in the next years, as we lack the programming power and experience for this.

We can compete with them in terms of fun with nice and creative games. This ability was within the Amiga community since the beginning. It still remains there!

And in terms of simply "being different", there are enough people being stressed by the conformism (and its very severe drawbacks on creativity and invention!) who are shouting for something different, something "new" (well, the Amiga isn´t really new, but it is lost in memory of most people, so it will be something new for them!).

Let´s give them something really different, we can achieve this even (or maybe only?) with PPC based "different" hardware.

If we (today´s Amigans) are really willing to do so. And if we don´t let the virus "let the el-cheapo mass-product computer think for me" infect us.

Greetz

@Plaz

Edit: Never mind, I got confused.

Yeh, what was the original point?

Doh, wonder if --
Amiga OS 4 ran on a modern PC box/laptop by Carl Sassenrath.

It's a useless topic by Hyperion ; absolutely fascinating to everyone one else
in the world with a .0009 ounce of intelligence!

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@ssolie

Quote:

ssolie wrote: [quote] I still believe the entire mess is rooted in a lack of action from Amiga Inc. They own the trademarks, etc. so they control the fate of the Amiga brand and everything behind it. We can point fingers at third parties but in the end, Amiga Inc. still holds the key. It is up to Amiga Inc. to work out the problems and move things forward.

Yes, and I must admit that I do not track it that closely. So, please tell me, what is Amiga Inc's official statement in this area? Where can I find the current vision for Amiga? Is there a page on the website to describe it?

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@whose

agree to your statement 100%!

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Hi @COBRA


It also annoys me that a lot of people think that OS4 is for PPC due to some political/religous reasons

In the original Commodore-Amiga beginnings, it was engineering & economics. MOS technologies was bought by C=. They designed their own MB with their own semiconductor group! This why Amiga is wierd in the first place! Not sure about the PPC movement.

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@Carl-S

The most informative resource about those issues, I guess, is the Q&A session on Amiga.org held a few weeks ago and the message Bill McEwen sent the community during the last Pianeta Amiga show (speech mp3).
The official website (www.amiga.com) contains little and partially outdated information. Most notably, hereyou can find this piece:
Quote:

Amiga, Inc. does not distribute or support AmigaOS 4.0.  For information on product availability, support, local dealers or resellers, please contact AmigaOne Partners through either Hyperion VOF or Eyetech Ltd. For information on licensing, adaptation or modification of any existing Amiga Operating System, please contact,  technologylicensing@amiga.com

saimo

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@saimo
Quote:

saimo wrote: Did you really mean "HW"? Or did you mean "system", instead? I'm asking only because it makes me wonder if you already knew about AOS4...

I have known about AOS4 for years, but I had not seen any recent demos of it. Yes, "system" is a better word. However, I knew AOS4 was working well, so the HW to run it was the missing part of the puzzle for me.

Also, I am trying to read all of the messages here, because I want to understand everyone's opinion. But, I skip most of the really long postings. So, I am adding a signature to note that. Sorry, please be concise. My time is limited.

_________________
When replying, please keep it short and sweet, and I will read it. If it is long, I read only the first few lines to decide if I want to read the rest.

@saimo

http://www.pianetaamiga.it/PianetaAmiga.mp3

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@Carl-S

You and some investors could buy out Amiga inc.
The Amiga needs a clear path to follow, creative and innovative minds behind the wheel,
OS4 + REBOL + cheap/powerful hardware = the path

Last edited by Restore2003 on 27-Oct-2006 at 07:48 PM.

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also check out my music at http://www.contrazt.no/records.html

@Carl-S

Quote:

I have known about AOS4 for years, but I had not seen any recent demos of it. Yes, "system" is a better word. However, I knew AOS4 was working well, so the HW to run it was the missing part of the puzzle for me.

.
I see, thanks for clarifying

Quote:

Also, I am trying to read all of the messages here, because I want to understand everyone's opinion. But, I skip most of the really long postings. So, I am adding a signature to note that. Sorry, please be concise. My time is limited.

I guess that reading the Q&A session I linked in the previous post will be a problem for you (it's 25 questions spanning 3 pages of news item)... but I think that it's worthwhile, as it sketches a quite good picture of the (messed up) situation and of the official future plans as disclosed to the public.

saimo

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