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      /  [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
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Poll : Pay off former employees before hiring new ones?
Yes
No
 
PosterThread
Darth_X 
[Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 17:18:59
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2003
Posts: 2997
From: Vancouver Island, Canada

Should Amiga inc pay off former employees before hiring new ones like Jamie Kreuger?

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 17:49:42
#2 ]
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Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10743
From: In the village

@Darth_X

Slightly different take on this is policy and inclination towards change in policy:

Garry Hare often wrote about moral obligations. Likely why he was let go.

Quote:
Q: Amiga Inc has a big portion of debt which is salary based -- has that been paid?
There is secured and unsecured debt. We have to prioritise. We are seriously careful with the accounting of this. All of this stuff is currently being taking care of.


and on t-shirts:

Quote:
While we have no obligation to honor them, I have said we have a moral one. I tried, unsuccessfully, to address this matter some time ago.


And let's not forget that Garry had to go to court for himself on failure to be paid. A case which he won in a "slamdunk."

Whilst Bill's spin is:

Quote:
The Amiga team with the exception of three people have all hung together and stayed working and productive. Over a two year period several of us continued to work and turn out product and services without pay. This was a "choice" that each of us made on a daily basis. There was not a single person who was forced to work, or for that matter was asked to work without getting paid.


Of course there is a difference between saying the above vs saying "you will likely never be paid", which was undoubtedly the truth he knew.

Whether Bill intends to step more in line with Garry's expressed sense of morality in the future, remains to be seen.

-Should- he pay?
I sincerely doubt -should- comes into play here. I see no ability to do so.

#6

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:06:20
#3 ]
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From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote:
Should Amiga inc pay off former employees before hiring new ones like Jamie Kreuger?


Before I answer, what former employees of Amiga Inc haven't been paid?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:29:05
#4 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote:
@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote:
Should Amiga inc pay off former employees before hiring new ones like Jamie Kreuger?


Before I answer, what former employees of Amiga Inc haven't been paid?


He is refering to Amino, formerly known as Amiga Inc. I believe he is proposing a moral question, not a legal one. I.E. Bolton Peck.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:31:15
#5 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@Darth_X

Quote:

Darth_X wrote:
Should Amiga inc pay off former employees before hiring new ones like Jamie Kreuger?


Given that I find how they closed doors, yet spirited off the IP in the manner that they did disgusting, to keep assets yet adandon debts, I voted yes.

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DaveAE 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:34:57
#6 ]
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Joined: 21-Mar-2003
Posts: 1091
From: The Netherlands

@SpaceDruid

I've generally spent the last couple of years trying to get money or stock from them for about 6 months of unpaid work. He always comes up with the same stories (next funding round, 2 more weeks, bla bla..).
I know another ex-Amigan who worked full time and is still owed (to my knowledge) about 50000 USD (which was actually worth a lot more here back in 2001 then it is now!).

I just want to warn Jamie that in case Bill starts talking about funding rounds or investors, please quit the job and find something else sooner than later.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:37:47
#7 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

He is refering to Amino, formerly known as Amiga Inc. I believe he is proposing a moral question, not a legal one. I.E. Bolton Peck.


Whats morals got to do with anything? Amiga Inc never employed Bolton, so why should it be moraly obliged to pay his wages?

Should Escom pay Commodores debts too?

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:39:49
#8 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2007
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From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@DaveAE

Well at least in your case, if it was Amiga that hired you to do the work then I'd vote yes they should pay you, but anyone blaming Amiga Inc for Aminos debts is trolling IMHO.

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pixie 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:45:27
#9 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2657
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@SpaceDruid

Amiga Inc never employed Bolton? From which tinted world do you came from?

They are all the same. Not even the name changed for crying out loud, it was Amiga back then it is Amiga now.

Quote:
He is refering to Amino, formerly known as Amiga Inc. I believe he is proposing a moral question, not a legal one. I.E. Bolton Peck.


It should be read, Amiga Inc formerly known as Amino...

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:46:57
#10 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@pixie

No, KMOS is Amiga Inc now. KMOS has never been Amino at any point. It did buy Amino assests however. Amino remains liable for any debts it had.

That is the facts.

Edit:

If the question was "Should Amino pay former employees?", then I vote yes.
If the question is "Should Amiga inc pay former employees?" then I vote yes.

However, if the question is "Should Amiga Inc pay former employees of Amino?" then I vote don't be stupid.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 04-Feb-2008 at 06:54 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 04-Feb-2008 at 06:54 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 18:58:56
#11 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Quote:

He is refering to Amino, formerly known as Amiga Inc. I believe he is proposing a moral question, not a legal one. I.E. Bolton Peck.


Whats morals got to do with anything? Amiga Inc never employed Bolton, so why should it be moraly obliged to pay his wages?

Should Escom pay Commodores debts too?


Stop being coy. We know the age-old argument here. They "closed" the first company to avoid paying debts that had acumulated and it seems moved off the assets to another entity, apparently so there would be nothing worthwhile left in the first company. Most people here seem to believe that was wrong from the myriad previous discussions on the topic. If a new set of people had been involved in the new company and this appearance of what went on did not exist no one would be asking the question in the first place. Bill made Bolton promises in old Amiga, old and new Amiga feeds Bill's family, but it took a major dump on Bolton. Thats the moral question that Darth-X is bringing up in this poll.

And if Bill's Amino (formerly Amiga, Inc.) got proper compensation for assets from Bill's Amiga (formerly KMOS) then why can't Bill pay Bolton from the Amino coffers at the least?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Feb-2008 at 07:02 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Feb-2008 at 07:01 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Feb-2008 at 07:00 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Feb-2008 at 07:00 PM.

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pixie 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 19:29:54
#12 ]
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Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2657
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@SpaceDruid

You do not buy one company without paying its debts first... unless it's a shell game

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Rob 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 19:34:19
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5828
From: S.Wales

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
Should Escom pay Commodores debts too?


Escom wasn't owned by Irving Gould though was it.

Last edited by Rob on 04-Feb-2008 at 07:34 PM.

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number6 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 19:48:28
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10743
From: In the village

@Darth_X

Quote:
Should Amiga inc pay off former employees


I think you'll need another poll about paying "current" employees, judging by one of the posts...

#6

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LoneHaranguer 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 20:07:37
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2005
Posts: 106
From: Adelaide, South Australia

@SpaceDruid
If Amiga, Inc is truly a separate company from Amino, then of course it shouldn't pay Amino's debts.

Nor should it, however, claim Amino's assets. If they don't want to pay the debts they incurred as Amino (because Amino went bankrupt) they should, as they agreed, hand the rights to the Amiga IP and name over to Hyperion Entertainment.

However, if they insist that Amiga IS Amino, and therefore has the rights to Amiga IP and trademarks, then they also have to responsibility to service all of Amino's debts. They can't have it both ways.

i think it's pretty straightforward, really. Indeed, I'd really like to see William S Hawes finally get paid for AREXX, though I think I have more chance of winning the lottery and being hit by a bus during a stampede of elephants and one baby zebra ...

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fairlanefastback 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 4-Feb-2008 20:17:06
#16 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@LoneHaranguer

Quote:
and one baby zebra ...


I love that cartoon!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fool_Coverage

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 04-Feb-2008 at 08:18 PM.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 5-Feb-2008 9:32:05
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote:
@SpaceDruid

You do not buy one company without paying its debts first... unless it's a shell game


They didn't buy the company though did they? They bought the assets of Animo (which included the brand name). Thats a huge difference.

Shell game? Probably. But that doesn't change the bare ####d facts of them being two seperate companies.

KMOS have no moral or legal reason to pay Aminos wages bill. You could perhaps argue that McBill (or whoever owns Amino) should fund Amino with enough cash to pay Bolton, but that is an entirely seperate matter.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 5-Feb-2008 9:39:43
#18 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@LoneHaranguer

Quote:

LoneHaranguer wrote:
@SpaceDruid
If Amiga, Inc is truly a separate company from Amino, then of course it shouldn't pay Amino's debts.

Nor should it, however, claim Amino's assets. If they don't want to pay the debts they incurred as Amino (because Amino went bankrupt) they should, as they agreed, hand the rights to the Amiga IP and name over to Hyperion Entertainment.


Erm, you have the situation wrong friend.

All Hyperion have the right to have according to the contract is the right to sell Amiga operating system version four.

That is all. No Amiga IP, No right to the name Amiga. Nothing more. The clause in the contract was only there in case Amiga went bankrupt during OS4s development so that Hyperion would still have the right to complete and sell OS4.

A lot of people (including yourself) seem to be under the impression Hyperion would become the new Amiga. Thats is wrong, utterly wrong. If Amiga Inc die, The Amiga is gone, forever.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 05-Feb-2008 at 09:40 AM.

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BillE 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 5-Feb-2008 11:42:20
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1168
From: Northern Scotland

@SpaceDruid

> Amiga Inc never employed Bolton, so why should it be moraly obliged to
> pay his wages?

Because its the same bl**dy company run by the same bunch of cowboys.

If it is really a differenbt company how come the same morons are still running it.

Bill McEwen still owes me $50 too, which is worth bugger all now. In UK currency and taking into account inflation he probably owes me around $150 now

McEwen is a criminal that should be behind bars IMHO. Companies simply should not be allowed to change their names and then back again without taking on all the responsibilities too.


Bill.

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damocles 
Re: [Poll] Should Amiga inc pay former employees?
Posted on 5-Feb-2008 12:07:56
#20 ]
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Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@LoneHaranguer

Quote:
Nor should it, however, claim Amino's assets. If they don't want to pay the debts they incurred as Amino (because Amino went bankrupt) they should, as they agreed, hand the rights to the Amiga IP and name over to Hyperion Entertainment.


Amino never went bankrupt. Problem is the former employees of AI who had judgements failed to keep the legal preasure up on AI to insure they got paid first and not allow AI to transfer IP. Wonder if those can now file a new law suit against Amino since they had a legal right to be paid first before KMOS did.

Dammy

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