Does anybody know anything about the progress of Sputnik port to OS4? I'm asking because last weekend I had a look at the latest MorphOS version of Sputnik, and overall it is far, far behind OWB in pretty much every aspect: speed, usability, etc. The MorphOS guys told me that even the MorphOS version is progressing really slowly now, so I do not see a point in an OS4 port of Sputnik at all anymore, after all we have a really nice and fast css-capable browser for OS4 being developed very rapidly, with the latest 2.18 version being so amazingly fast that I just couldn't believe it...

I participated in raising the bounty for the Sputnik OS4 port, but since no apparent progress has been made for such a long time on the OS4 port of Sputnik (I don't even know if it was even started at all), I would rather like to get that money back, so that I can donate it to Joerg Strohmayer to support the development of OWB instead. Is that possible?

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way, the money that was raised for the Sputnik OS4 port is a very large sum, and just imagine what a significant effect it would have on OWB's development, if such an amount of money was donated to Joerg instead. He would really, really deserve it...

@COBRA

Is it possible to download files with OWB yet even?
I think Sputnik works pretty good.

@fryguy

The 1.x version of OWB can download files, and I'm 1000% sure this will be available in the 2.x version sooner than we will see an OS4 port of Sputnik... Sputnik worked, and it displayed a lot of webpages quite nicely, albeit with a constant flicker wherever it was redrawing/refreshing part of, or the whole of the page, and in the ACID3 test it didn't even get as far as showing 0/100, whereas OWB 2.18 completes it to 100/100 and very quickly too. Seeing how far OWB has come in such a short time, and then seeing the MorphOS version of Sputnik, I am fully convinced that Sputnik will never catch up with OWB now, this is why I would like to support OWB instead.

@COBRA

-Does OS4 OWB have a download manager like Sputnik?
-Can you open various tabs?
-Can you open various windows?
-Can you change GUI options like fonts/skins/buttons/screens comfortably?
-Does the installer of OWB download missing libraries or fonts?

IMHO Sputnik on OS4 is a good thing. Last thing I heard was that perhaps a version is released for Christmas.

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@Crumb

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-Does OS4 OWB have a download manager like Sputnik? -Can you open various tabs?

Not yet.

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-Can you open various windows?

Yes.

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-Can you change GUI options like fonts/skins/buttons/screens comfortably?

You can change some things, but not everything. Yet.

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-Does the installer of OWB download missing libraries or fonts?

I don't know what its like for a first install any more, but i think the download archive now contains everything you need. Once you have it, you can update it through AmiUpdate which is very quick, easy and convenient.

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@Crumb

The point is that even if Sputnik on OS4 existed today in the same state as the latest MorphOS version, it just couldn't compete with OWB. It does have a few things which OWB doesn't have yet, such as the download manager and tabs you mentioned, but when it comes to speed and the ability to display webpages correctly and bug-free, OWB is much better, and since such little progress is being made on Sputnik even for the MorphOS version, it makes no sense for me to support Sputnik, and I would rather support OWB instead.

On one hand we have OWB with an actual team working hard on the development of its core and the OS4 port being updated weekly and is already lightning fast as IBrowse is, and on the other hand we have Sputnik, of which we haven't even seen any screenshot of an alpha version running on OS4, heck not even any progress report! And even the MorphOS version is hardly being updated. I don't think it needs a lot of explanation why I want to support OWB instead...

@COBRA
Quote:

I don't think it needs a lot of explanation why I want to support OWB instead...

So start a new bounty to support that?

I remember there was a rather similar discussions about mozilla bounty a while ago, now THAT would be some considerable amount of money!

@COBRA

Quote:

The point is that even if Sputnik on OS4 existed today in the same state as the latest MorphOS version, it just couldn't compete with OWB.

It already does. Try to download an attachment from gmail using OWB


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On one hand we have OWB with an actual team working hard

Both engines use KHTML as a basis.

OWB team is focused on embedded devices, not on real desktop computers.

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and the OS4 port being updated weekly

That causes that a version has to follow soon because the releases aren't properly tested. Just look at OWB history.

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we haven't even seen any screenshot of an alpha version running on OS4, heck not even any progress report!

According to Troels "In the last email I got from Marcin he said he was sorry for the delay and that a Sputnik release should happen this December."

Source: http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4635#61970


I think that with the money and effort spent in Sputnik/OWB for both OS4/MOS we would already have Mozilla running. But of course, build system sucks and it's boring

Last edited by Crumb on 10-Dec-2008 at 11:24 AM.

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One very simple question? Where is the OWB bounty page?

I've already donated direct, but a dedicated OWB Bounty pages, does one exist for tracking purposes?

IMHO shuffling money around, can cause a lot of trouble. Remember the T-Shirts thing, and Amiga Stadium, and forever waiting for OS4 on Sam440ep.

My gut tells me keep the money where it is. But donate more if you like to OWB.
We've had too many HEATED DEBATES and UPSET people already for not sticking to promises.

Our Amiga word should mean something with the bounties staying 100% intact as they are. Perhaps put the money into HIGH INTEREST bank account.

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@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

My gut tells me keep the money where it is. But donate more if you like to OWB. We've had too many HEATED DEBATES and UPSET people already for not sticking to promises.

Then why not offer each donor to choose between this propositions :
- leave the donation as is in the event the OS4 port materialize one day,
- transfer the donation to OWB,
- refund the donation (less hypothetical costs (think PayPal) x2).

Then I think no-one will be displeased. I agree it's a bit of work but...

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@Crumb

Quote:

It already does. Try to download an attachment from gmail using OWB

We both know that download is not included in the current 2.x version of OWB, and there are some other issues, such as gif anims not working, but with the rapid speed of development of OWB, I'm confident that these minor things will be resolved pretty soon, especially if joerg gets enough donations to motivate him.

Now if Marcin has already put a lot of effort into the OS4 port, and is near completion, then it would be unfair to take the bounty away. However right now I don't even know, if he's working on it at all, because he does not make any progress reports, does not submit any screenshots, like he did for the MorphOS version, and seeing the progress of the MorphOS version is also very discouraging. It is also unfair however, that the bounty money was collected in 2007, and according to AmigaBounty.net:

Expected time-table.
First version of Sputnik (for MorhpOS), usable for daily browsing should be available in Q1 2007, and no work on porting to AmigaOS4 can be started before it. Stable, feature-rich version of Sputnik (for MorphOS) should be completed before end of 2007 and if dependencies mentioned earlier will be resolved then AmigaOS4 version shouldn't be lagging behind (no more than a few days/weeks).

And now it is the end of 2008, so I expected that at least we would see some screenshot of some early alpha version of Sputnik running OS4 by now. For a while I thought that two browsers is better than one, and since Sputnik is developed from the ground up specifically for AmigaOS rather than a direct port from another OS, it could be faster and more efficient than OWB, but seeing the latest OWB 2.18 being faster than IB2.4 at drawing/scrolling webpages, Sputnik won't have that advantage either.

In my opinion Marcin should clarify what is the current progress of the Sptunik OS4 port when can we expect a fast and stable version to be released (and not some early alpha), and there should be some kind of a deadline for the bounty, because right now a bunch of money is sitting there for a project which is making no apparent progress, while someone else (Joerg) is working his ass off, which is very unfair in my opinion. Most of the people who put money into Sputnik OS4 did it in the hope of getting a fast css-capable browser on OS4, but this already exists now...

I'm sure a lot of people would get angry if their money would be used in something else than what it was paid for.

Perhaps there could be a STRONG deadline set for AOS4 version of sputnik.
Then IF sputnik does not materialize before the deadline, the money could be paid for OWB development when OWB has a working JAVA and it runs also on MOS & AROS & AnubisOS.

I think then there would not be many unhappy people, except sputnik developers???

Last edited by KimmoK on 10-Dec-2008 at 12:52 PM.

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@abalaban

I'm afraid it's not that simple. If Marcin has already put a substantial amount of work into the port, and is nearing completion, then it would be unfair to him if the bounty would disappear just before he finishes.

My proposition would be to set some kind of a deadline for the bounty, to which both Marcin and those who donated to the bounty agree, because we are really way past the original timeline with not even any indication of an alpha version of Sputnik OS4 running, and this is very unfair to those who have donated over 18 months ago.

As I donated an A1-XE to Marcin and funds to the Sputnik bounty, naturally I would like Sputnik to be made available for OS4.x. An update on the Sputnik project will be issued on Amiga Bounty in the near future. I hope.

TrevorD

Last edited by TrevorDick on 10-Dec-2008 at 12:57 PM.
Last edited by TrevorDick on 10-Dec-2008 at 12:56 PM.

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@COBRA

You are right, but IIRC Marcin was not so interested in OS4... Anyway it's of course better to ask him his opinion before doing anything with the bounty.
IMHO every bounty should include a deadline even a far one just in case the project stalls, I also think it's also good idea to inform donors what the donation will become in such an event.

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Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@KimmoK

The bounty we are talking about is for the OS4 port of Sputnik only, not for toher platforms, see here:
http://www.amigabounty.net/?function=viewproject&projectid=21

I'm not sure what you mean by JAVA, Both OWB and Sputnik has JavaScript support, but neither Sputnik nor OWB ever had a Java VM, nor was it promised for either.

@COBRA

AFAIK Marcik received his A1 quite late so he couldn't start with the port when it was planned. In software development there are always delays and personal projects could be affected by personal problems.

I hope he publishes at least some screenshots in December


I would prefer that Sputnik became open source once the OS4 version is released so there would be chances of having AmigaOS3/AROS ports but it's up to author's will.

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@COBRA

its just not right that sputnik is far behind from owb in every area. owb is just a html viewer with a textstring now, sputnik is more of a browser. however i do agree that owb displays sites better (and w/o the flicker which is the most annoying thing in sputnik) i think it is a bit strong that "sputnik will never catch up to owb". im sure that in daily usage sputnik is still better than owb (not talkin about rendering quality), if you wanna download things (with progress bar), opening meny pages at once (sometimes i open 10+ tabs in sputnik) - just just to be careful not to stress little sputnik too much:D

@abalaban

I agree with the deadline, I think someone should discuss this with Marcin, has he started working on it, how far into it is he, does he stil intend to finish it, if so, when, etc.

@Crumb

I know all about personal life getting in the way of projects, I've had too little spare time too this year to make the kind of progress on my projects as I hoped. I am not complaining about the lack of progress of Sputnik, but surely there must be a line drawn somewhere, if the development lags so far behind the timeline which we donators were originally presented with, and in the meantime someone else already completed what the donators were hoping to get (a fast, modern, css-capable browser for OS4), then the donators are simply being ripped off.

Surely there must be some kind of a deadline set, you just can't have that money sit there forever...

@COBRA

I agree now that we have OWB, there's absolutely no point in IBrowse and Sputnik, well not apart from having a choice.

Unfortunately Ibrowse development was stalled (or going VERY slow) and no one had heard about OWB when the Sputnik bounty was started.
So a deal was made with Marcin about porting of Sputnik and I am going to stick to that deal!

If you spend 2 minutes to take a look at the bounty site you would see that a release is scheduled for December.
I actually made that small update 9 days ago, I could have posted it as news but it is not really news and I thought people with such a large interest as you seem to have might be able to find it themselves.

The Sputnik bounty was created long time ago, and since not all things have gone as planned. Marcin haven't had the time he hoped for development due to various problems. IMHO he could have been more forthcoming in telling what happened but that seems not to be his style.

If you have followed various threads you would have seen me answer the same questions you have just asked a few times.

Anyway I really can't see whats holding you back from making a donation to Joerg, I have done so and encourage everyone to do so.
With the few new developments there is it's not like we're able to spend too much money on Amiga software, unfortunately:(

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