@$adddam

I didn't say it's far behind in every area (I hope ), but OWB is way ahead when it comes to correct html rendering and speed. You should see OWB 2.18 and you'd see what I mean, it's a really huge improvement from 2.17 that you saw. All it needs is a URL history and a download manager, and we're set. And tabs would be nice too, although you can open as many windows as you want (limited by the amount of memory you have), tabs make it easier to switch between the pages. But these are relatively small things and not such a major work. When I said "Sputnik will never catch up with OWB", I meant on OS4 of course, and when you consider the speed of progress of OWB vs Sputnik and with Sputnik not even existing on OS4 right now I think it's a safe bet. But maybe Marcin reads this now and it'll make him determined to prove me wrong

@Troels

It would have been a good idea to post it as news, because a lot of people (including me) often don't find the time to visit the forums and just have a quick look at the news posts to keep up-to-date with the happenings.

I hope I haven't offend Marcin, but I think he really needs to communicate with the community a bit more, rather than just disappear like that... Not having enough spare time is one thing, but keeping everyone in the dark is another. I'm looking forward to the December Sputnik release for OS4 then

Nothing is holding me back from making a donation to joerg, apart from what I have on my account... I have already made several small donations to him as far as my "wallet" allowed, for OWB and for other things as well.

@COBRA

Well you had plenty of time to write here instead of looking at the source for information:)
If you look at the project page again you will see that I just edited it a bit and specified things a bit.

_________________

The answer to transferring money ($$$) from one bounty to another is going to be a huge
and FAT NO... NO WAY...

I think people are seeing progress with and without bounties and now disturbing what used to be muddied water is not what the Amiga Community needs.

The community is now stabilizing and mucking around with money, will only inflict more wounds IMHO.

Money for each bounty stays as is.

_________________
Quote:

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@COBRA

Quote:

I'm asking because last weekend I had a look at the latest MorphOS version of Sputnik, and overall it is far, far behind OWB in pretty much every aspect: speed, usability, etc. The MorphOS guys told me that even the MorphOS version is progressing really slowly now, so I do not see a point in an OS4 port of Sputnik at all anymore

If someone does not have time for developing program, why give him some money?

Imagine situation that there will be a Sputnik for AmigaOS4.x, and next update will be next year... December.

Quote:

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way, the money that was raised for the Sputnik OS4 port is a very large sum, and just imagine what a significant effect it would have on OWB's development, if such an amount of money was donated to Joerg instead. He would really, really deserve it...

Especially for the person who is releasing an update every week...and actually we can see progress.

In general for EVERY bounty should be DUE DATE. When particular goals are not achived the bounty is moved or canceled.

We can freeze our money FOR EVER waiting for someone to do something...

Every bounty suppose to have a schedule, plan and different time line for different features of the software.

The trouble is that if author is not willing to work (even when we pay him) there is no way to "force" anybody :D

_________________
I change my mind. Now when I know AmigaOS4.1 is legal... :D. Thank you Hyperion!

@COBRA

Quote:

I hope I haven't offend Marcin, but I think he really needs to communicate with the community a bit more, rather than just disappear like that... Not having enough spare time is one thing, but keeping everyone in the dark is another. I'm looking forward to the December Sputnik release for OS4 then

I'm Polish, do you want to ask Marcin? I can send some post/questions into polish MOS discussion forums.

EDIT: I know that Marcin knows English, but I would like to make this conversation more public :).

Last edited by kreciu on 10-Dec-2008 at 02:59 PM.
Last edited by kreciu on 10-Dec-2008 at 02:59 PM.

_________________
I change my mind. Now when I know AmigaOS4.1 is legal... :D. Thank you Hyperion!

@meet.mrnrg

Quote:

The answer to transferring money ($$$) from one bounty to another is going to be a huge and FAT NO... NO WAY...

I didn't contribute in this bounty, but I would I would take my money back.

_________________
I change my mind. Now when I know AmigaOS4.1 is legal... :D. Thank you Hyperion!

@Troels

You're wrong, I did read the bounty page (http://www.amigabounty.net/?function=viewproject&projectid=21) but I couldn't see there that a release is scheduled for December 2008, where is it mentioned?

@kreciu

No need to ask Marcin, if Troels says the release is scheduled for December 2008, then it must be so. So let's wait for the release now, or some news in case he does not make it this month and is delayed.

@COBRA

Quote:

No need to ask Marcin, if Troels says the release is scheduled for December 2008, then it must be so. So let's wait for the release now, or some news in case he does not make it this month and is delayed.

I agree, I didn't know there is a due date. If there is a due date and so we need to wait like 2 weeks and we WILL SEE Sputnik on AmigaOS4.x. After that I can even donate something :).

_________________
I change my mind. Now when I know AmigaOS4.1 is legal... :D. Thank you Hyperion!

@kreciu

Yes, let's wait and see. However I do think Troels (I think he manages the bounty) should discuss with Marcin some reasonable deadline for the bounty, because obviously the money can't sit there forever, and in case for whatever reason he can't complete it, the money should be returned to the donators or be put to some other good use.

@COBRA

About OWB, it just renders better and flickers less, because:
- it uses a more recent webkit tree (sputnik still uses old nokia one). But that's just a matter of updating webkit here.
- it renders everything in some kind of big bitmap together with the whole custom drawn Web UI (forms elements, etc...), so it's much easier to avoid flickering that way. But it's also slower by design, and not well integrated to the host system (you can't easily have Reaction/MUI gadgets, contextmenus and stuff like that with such a design).

IMO, the sputnik approach is better, but of course much harder to deal with (which explains why it can flick and so on).

Last edited by Fab on 10-Dec-2008 at 03:34 PM.

Hi @COBRA

I participated in raising the bounty for the Sputnik OS4 port, but since no apparent progress has been made for such a long time on the OS4 port of Sputnik (I don't even know if it was even started at all), I would rather like to get that money back, so that I can donate it to Joerg Strohmayer to support the development of OWB instead. Is that possible?

Me too with the support of the Sputnik bounty. Do we need to "lawyer-up"?

_________________

@Fab

OWB 1.x used to render into a big bitmap, but that solution was dropped in 2.x because it had to wait for the whole page to load before displaying it and used up a lot of memory, depending on the size of the page. One of the major changes in 2.x was that it renders parts of the page on-the-fly as you scroll like any browser, which was slower up until 2.17 because it had no hw acceleration, everything was rendered by the CPU first and then the result was transferred to videomem. OWB 2.18 on the other hand seems to use the blitter where possible making it as fast as IB2.4 (or even faster) on most pages. IBrowse also puts MUI gagets into the pages like Sputnik, but does not have the flickering problem, so I think that has something to do with how sputnik integrates webkit with MUI.

Hi @Jupp3

So start a new bounty to support that?

That wasn't the question. I'm tired of waiting around Sputnik, OWB is here and now on the A1 and could use the support.

_________________

OWB 2.19 is out

See OS4Depot!

Sorry for the little OT

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

Hi @COBRA

I agree with the deadline, I think someone should discuss this with Marcin, has he started working on it, how far into it is he, does he stil intend to finish it, if so, when, etc.

I agree too! A deadline needs to be announced for the Sputnik bounty.

_________________

@COBRA

I hope I haven't offend Marcin, but I think he really needs to communicate with the community a bit more, rather than just disappear like that... Not having enough spare time is one thing, but keeping everyone in the dark is another. I'm looking forward to the December Sputnik release for OS4 then

Amen!

_________________

@COBRA

Programming including porting applications is a very time consuming exercise and just because no beta for OS4 has get been released dose not mean that no work has been done yet. In fact if the programmer is expecting to make a release this month that means he has already done a lot of work and it would be very dishonest to take the money he has worked for away now.

How would you feel if you spent weeks or months working on a project but before you had time to finish it your employer decided to cancel the project and as you had not yet finished the job pay you nothing?

Thats what you are suggesting now.

Anyway just because we have a port of a different browser no dose not mean that having a OS4 port of Sputnik would not also be useful. Its good to have a choice of applications to run as different people tend to prefer different applications to do the same job.

For example I prefer AWEB to Ibrowser as my Amiga web browser but no and again I use ibrowser as well and I would not want ibrowser to stop being developed just because its not my favourite Amiga web browser.

_________________
Sam440ep 667mhz, 512MB, 120GB 2.5" HD, OS4.1FE
WinUae 3.0.0, OS 3.9, BB3, Catweasel MkIV
Amiga 1200, Blizzard 040/40 (BlizzardPPC 060/200 with SCSI removed at present), mediatorSX pci, Voodoo3, PCI network card os 3.9BB2
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@Dwyloc

Quote:

How would you feel if you spent weeks or months working on a project but before you had time to finish it your employer decided to cancel the project and as you had not yet finished the job pay you nothing?

My employer would have every right to fire me, if I made no apparent progress on a project for over a year and I'd be way past the originally planned timeline. We have been given an expected timeline when we made the donation. Nobody expected to have a fully working port in a few months, that was clear. But I did expect at least something, some working alpha, or beta version, or screenshot of a partially working version, say after about a year or so.

Quote:

Thats what you are suggesting now.

No, did you even read my posts? I'm suggesting to agree on a deadline with Marcin which is acceptable to him and the donators, and set it for the bounty, to prevent the bounty from going to waste, in case the project is not completed due to whatever reason (Marcin lacking time, losing interest, whatever).

Last edited by COBRA on 10-Dec-2008 at 04:42 PM.
Last edited by COBRA on 10-Dec-2008 at 04:41 PM.