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      /  OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
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Amigo1 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 11:59:18
#141 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1569
From: the Clouds

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Quote:
But regardless of any of that the machine is advertised as $1250 to the public. Please explain to me how it will be $2250 instead when its already $1250 with no known strings attached already.


In my opinion if you're going to invest a considerable amount of money (and effort) into porting an operating system to a piece of hardware, you will want to ensure that this hardware will be available and produced when your efforts are finished and you are ready to release the OS to that hardware, in fact you will want that hardware to be available for quite some time after that, so that a market can actually start to grow. It's very risky to rely on something which you have no control of and could be discontinued any time, or its price be changed any time. So Hyperion would want to make an agreement with the board manufacturer to ensure that the product is available when you want it. I mean, in the real world no company is going to rely on another for a product they are making, without having a contract signed with that company to ensure that your work doesn't go to the rubbish bin.

So my guess is that if the rumours are true that Hyperion contacted them and no deal was made, they probably couldn't get them to agree to have a batch of these boards secured for the AmigaOS market, or at least not for a reasonable price. But to be honest I wouldn't want such a noisy server machine in my room here at home anyway, sure I would like higher performance, but not at any cost.



well said

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Leo 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 12:15:37
#142 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

In my opinion there is no market for the Amiga right now... and unless you have Apple's power and money, explain me how you are going to create one ?

You'll have to produce a machine at least 100k machines a year (even if it's less than what's Apple sells a month...). You'll also have to have a solid complete operating system: how are you going to create that ?

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 12:53:16
#143 ]
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Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Leo
So we should just give-up? Pack our bags in & switch to Windows/OSX/Linux?

IMHO Hyperion (and maybe MorphOS) are trying to rebuild an Amiga market. Takes a long time & a lot of effort, and one cannot be sure it will succeed. But if I didn't think they stood some sort of chance, I wouldn't be here... (Not interested in a dead-end OS with no future, no matter how nice it may be to use.)

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amigauser 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 12:58:40
#144 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 100
From: Unknown

this looks like a very good roadmap for aos4, one day i will replace my a1200 with a new amiga hw and aos4 :)

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 13:07:53
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Leo
All your posts seems just out of an Ex-Amigan gone Mac "love Steve Jobs more than my wife" kind of guy.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 13:08:47
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@amigauser
Don't replace it, just add a NG miggie beside it!

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polka. 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 13:28:53
#147 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@ChrisH

Quote:
@Leo
So we should just give-up? Pack our bags in & switch to Windows/OSX/Linux?


Why switch? Most OS4/MorphOS-users already use Windows/OSX/Linux besides their OS4/MorphOS computer. I remember there even was a poll about this some time ago. The number of users that e.g. only use OS4 is very small. Quite understandable, since the number of apps is very limited and I daily see the restrictions of both OS, e.g. when trying to visit flash-sites.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 13:43:10
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@polka.
Quote:
Quite understandable, since the number of apps is very limited and I daily see the restrictions of both OS, e.g. when trying to visit flash-sites.

You are correct, but that is exactly what many amigans here would like to avoid in the future.
In the end, we don't need 30apps doing the same thing in order to solely use Amiga as a main computer, but as you said right now there are portions of general computing where Amiga has little or nothing to offer.

If in the future a single very good software comes out for every possible computing task, you could once again use Amiga as your principal or sole computer.

To make an example, we might argue for months if I prefer Opera or you prefer Safari for browsing, but as long as a good implementation of Firefox is present on the Amiga, you will no longer need another computer to browse certain sites. (I could create the same example with any computing need).

Naysayers say it is impossible, that we will not see competent software in all "sectors" or even new hardware.
However most people think we will get an OS which is more modern with every release and eventually have a single good application for any possible need (and of course, new HW too).

Latest developments point in the latter direction, so why not desire such a future now?

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polka. 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 13:57:18
#149 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@DAX

Quote:
If in the future a single very good software comes out for every possible computing task, you could once again use Amiga as your principal or sole computer.


A single software for every possible computing task? Please elaborate.

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Leo 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 14:25:49
#150 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

Quote:

So we should just give-up? Pack our bags in & switch to Windows/OSX/Linux?

Surely not... unless you really want to involve money...

OS4 can't even run a week without crashing, any application can bring it down, GUI looks like it comes from DPaint (yeah, some reaction gadgets don't even have 1:1 aspect ratio ! looks like we're stuck in 1990 with 640x200 screen res...), that we're talking about taking over the world, and how Windows, Linux, OSX, whatever sucks...

Being a little humble would help.

Just have a look at Haiku: no need to involve money, and you can have a real nice OS. Clean, styled, free, open,...

I am no Steve Jobs lover, but just have a look at where he brought Apple, especially seeing where he took it... Guess there is a lot to learn from what he did, that's it! ;)

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persia 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 14:31:20
#151 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@ChrisH
No, simply realise that what you have isn't going to ever replace a Linux/OSX/Windows box for 99.999% of people. What you are counting on is hobby use. SOmebody will have an AmigaOS machine just to play with, a hobby machine. Problem is the SAM and most PPC alternatives are priced in the collector's range rather than the hobbyist range. Nobody but a true believer is going to plunk down a thousand euros for it. Now a hundred euros and an old X86 box would draw the hobbyists. Make it dual boot into a Linux variant and you'll have have a lot more hobbyists.

I know several people that would have something like that in their home office or playroom. Don't expect a rational person to shell out a thousand euros for an incomplete OS with no real apps on underpowered hardware.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 14:34:18
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@polka.
Let's start from the beginnings: on my A2000 I was able to satisfy any computing need (of the time), I used ImageFX for image manipulation, Lightwave for 3D, Bars&Pipes to drive my Kawai keybord and a DSS8 with ProTracker, Wordsworth as a word processsor and so on.

There was a time when you could simply avoid to use a PC and have every computing need satisfied on the Amiga.

Look at today situation: if I solely use Amiga, what happens if I am at a friends house and I see a funny video on a flash site (say, using Safari) and when i get back home i want to show it to my wife?
Today I can pray Gnash plays it, but in general I wouldn't be able to show her the video.

What if i want to do multi-channel sound recording? (no-go)

I work in 3D, so what happens if during the week end i want to bring home a 3DS Max model (or scene) touch it up and bring it back on Monday all fine tuned?

I wouldn't be able to do it etc. hence the need for a PC (or Mac).

What I see me doing in the future? I see the aforementioned video on Safari and when I get home I fire up my Amiga, connect to the same site in Timberwolf and show the video to my wife.
I see myself saving the 3DS max model or scene to a pen-drive (in OBJ or FBX format) load it in Blender on the Amiga, add some organic sculpting or fluid simulation, and bring it back to the office saved again in FBX or OBJ (latest versions preserve everything including materials, lights, bones, skinning/point weighting, all commonly used map types and so on).
I also see Davy Wentzler (this is for you Davy ) porting eXtreme and Audioevolution back to Amiga!

There could be a very good software, for every computing task, and we could just use a single machine at home without the need of another PC just like we did years ago on our Commodore's Miggies!

I repeat, it would seem we are headed that way, and I'm pretty exited about it

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 14:36:27
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@persia
Read my previous post and see what i mean. It is just the same as you wrote in that beautiful post. it doesn't have to be for everyone or for worldwide offices, but it can be as described above for Amigans, quite a bliss IMHO...

@Leo
You love other solutions too much...

Last edited by DAX on 04-Nov-2009 at 02:38 PM.

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persia 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 14:39:34
#154 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@Leo
You're right Steve Jobs realised that trying to fix OS 9 was putting lipstick on a pig. Sometimes you just need to harvest the bacon and start over...

I really like Haiku, it runs happily in a little VMWare Fusion window. Didn't cost a coin to try or use. They've done a good job of balancing retro and real world. If I had to bet on an alternative OS being able to break into the Linux/OSX/Windows world it would have to be Haiku.

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Antique 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 17:55:46
#155 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2005
Posts: 887
From: Norway

@Leo
Don't think you need 100k a year to sustain this market.

Quote:
You'll have to produce a machine at least 100k machines a year (even if it's less than what's Apple sells a month...). You'll also have to have a solid complete operating system: how are you going to create that ?

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persia 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 20:05:34
#156 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@Antique

a thousand OS sales a year could be 100,000 a year, two thousand 200,000. You don't need a large user base to function. Add the bounties and the other parts of Hyperion and they can do ok with a very small user base, so long as they don't try to buy the naming rights to Den Dreef stadium or start developing Mobile phone applications for Oud-Heverlee Leuven football club they'll be alright.

Last edited by persia on 04-Nov-2009 at 08:09 PM.

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 4-Nov-2009 20:13:07
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@persia
Quote:
so long as they don't try to buy the naming rights to Den Dreef stadium or start developing Mobile phone applications for Oud-Heverlee Leuven football club they'll be alright.

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Dandy 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 5-Nov-2009 6:49:31
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Quote:


But regardless of any of that the machine is advertised as $1250 to the public. Please explain to me how it will be $2250 instead when its already $1250 with no known strings attached already.



...
But to be honest I wouldn't want such a noisy server machine in my room here at home anyway, sure I would like higher performance, but not at any cost.



Hmmmm - your claim this machine being noisy sounds as if you already have bought a PowerStation and are talking about your own experience, which is what I highly doubt.

Regarding noise I can only say that my 1993 Amiga4000 PPC with 3 fans is significantly more silent than my XP-PC of 2008 with just 2 fans.

Furthermore my fully blown old Amiga is happy with a 200W PSU, while the PC comes with a 800W PSU.

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Trixie 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 5-Nov-2009 7:18:16
#159 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1991
From: Czech Republic

@Dandy

Quote:
Regarding noise I can only say that my 1993 Amiga4000 PPC with 3 fans is significantly more silent than my XP-PC of 2008 with just 2 fans.

And guess how my 2009 SAM440ep with no fans, running off a 60W power supply, would compare

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Dandy 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 5-Nov-2009 10:09:49
#160 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


Regarding noise I can only say that my 1993 Amiga4000 PPC with 3 fans is significantly more silent than my XP-PC of 2008 with just 2 fans.



And guess how my 2009 SAM440ep with no fans, running off a 60W power supply, would compare



I guess there's no big difference between "nearly silent" and "silent"...

Which of the SAMs do you have? The one with just one PCI slot or the one with three PCI slots? Do you have cards (=power consumers) fitted?

In my A4k are a lot of consumers fitted like Turboboard, Mediator board, 4 PCI cards, 1 Zorro III card, CD-Rom, CD-RW, DVD-RW, tape streamer, USB front hub and the like.

60 W might be sufficiant for a bare A4k - but all these expansions together require more power than 60W.

I guess you would equally have to replace your PSU with a stronger one, if your SAM could harbour all those expansions and had them fitted.

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