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      /  Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
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Swoop 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 12:07:56
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2121
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@clebin

Quote:
It is possible to do day-to-day tasks on an Amiga, and that's great, but it doesn't answer the question of why you chose the Amiga to do that in the first place, given all the sacrifices.

Because I can't do in numbers (OSx) what I can do in Turbocalc, and because I can't do in excel (Windows) what I can do in Turbocalc, without learning visual basic.
Turbocalc5 a 15 year old program, that is more capable that Numbers, or Excel.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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DAX 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 12:19:55
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Thread

If you want a Hobby OS try the OS that Kids "Toy Computers" (from PlaySchool etc.) have.

2 Points:

1)I know of people working with AmigaOS and getting money for it (one for web graphics another for interactive Hollywood based installations) so as long as you get money it is no hobby.

I also know people that use Windows just for playing 3D games, and that is very much Hobby USE.

So there is Hobby use and professional use, there is no such a thing as a Hobby operating system.

2) If AmigaOS is not advanced as Windows it does not depend on weather it is "Hobby" or not, it depends on a series of unfortunate events, so in this regard this particular Operating System is playing catching up now.

This does not turn it into a "Hobby" OS, just a complex Operating System that due to a series of events it's not up to date (yet ).

"Hobby OS" it's just stupid wording.

Last edited by DAX on 21-Dec-2009 at 12:36 PM.

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eXec 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 12:27:07
#63 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 955
From: Burkina Faso

@KimmoK

As a BA in media production - audio engineering i see no
DIgidesign ProTools, Steinberg Nuendo/Cubase, Logic Pro,
Reason, Record, Wavelab, Sforge under Linux....

;)

Perhaps you do?! :)

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____
...administration is for serious people only....

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Zardoz 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 13:24:23
#64 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
When running in heavy CPU load, multitasking becomes impossible in WinXP, screens become corrupted, etc etc...


Broken computer. The load I put on my XP work machines and the number of processes usually running on each one is insane and I never have crashes, corrupt screens, etc.

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itix 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 13:36:55
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

I know guys who are making money with Commodore 64. So I think it is unfair call C64 as a hobby OS/computer. There are also loads of professional software available for C64 (albeit little dated) you can use to make money. Music, gfx/pixel painting, text processing.... everything is possible. The operating system in C64 is not a hobby OS -- it just is not as developed as other operating systems. Some modern standards are not supported, YET, but hey, even Windows sucks and crashes every time. C64 filesystems are reliable and NEVER lose any data. And C64 even boots faster than Windows.

So, please, stop calling using C64 is a hobby. It seriously kicks ass.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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clebin 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 13:48:45
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1692
From: Cardiff

@Swoop

That's a very good answer but I'm still skeptical. What exactly are you trying to do?

Chris

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

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cv643d 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 14:13:22
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-May-2009
Posts: 262
From: Stockholm - Sweden

@Arko

Quote:
AOS4 sales could hardly pay the Friedens so they doing this as hobby like the other AOS4 developers.


Do you have a reference for that quote?

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DAX 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 14:29:17
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@itix
C-64 is not a Hobby "OS" is an ultra outdated computer. It will never be able to run Blender, Firefox or play HD videos.

Amiga OS will (and then some).

Too convenient to compare a damaged Formula 1 Car that is actually in the lab "repairing" to a 200BC horse chariot, on the asumption that both were used as a mean of transport...

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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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DiskDoctor 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 14:34:29
#69 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2009
Posts: 544
From: Rzeszow, Poland

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@Thread

If you want a Hobby OS try the OS that Kids "Toy Computers" (from PlaySchool etc.) have.

2 Points:

1)I know of people working with AmigaOS and getting money for it (one for web graphics another for interactive Hollywood based installations) so as long as you get money it is no hobby.

I also know people that use Windows just for playing 3D games, and that is very much Hobby USE.

So there is Hobby use and professional use, there is no such a thing as a Hobby operating system.

2) If AmigaOS is not advanced as Windows it does not depend on weather it is "Hobby" or not, it depends on a series of unfortunate events, so in this regard this particular Operating System is playing catching up now.

This does not turn it into a "Hobby" OS, just a complex Operating System that due to a series of events it's not up to date (yet ).

"Hobby OS" it's just stupid wording.


Fantastic clarification! That was my point too.

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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 15:04:53
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Arko Quote:
AOS4 sales could hardly pay the Friedens so they doing this as hobby like the other AOS4 developers.

Certainly OS4 won't make them tons of money at the moment, but they may well hope for higher sales in the future (a not unreasonable hope) to pay back for the past expended effort.

But I would hardly call it "hobby pay" either: We can take one *estimate* of Sam440 sales (500 from sound driver download count), and multiply that by the cost of OS4 (100), which gives 50,000 total for approximately one years worth of sales. Then of course they were likely paid by ACube for OS4 development (either up-front or more likely something per Sam440 sale), which I am sure *could* easily double that figure. So lets say 100,000 as a *very* rough ball-park figure (before tax, etc). Yes, sure, not huge, but not to be sniffed at either!

Quote:
Spreadsheet Programm
I need a spreadsheet program, suitable to do calculation and diagrams.

I think we have spreadsheet programs coming out of our collective ears! If you want to restrict that to ones compatible with PC programs, then that does probably restrict it to Gnumeric though.

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Dec-2009 at 03:08 PM.

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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ChrisH 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 15:11:46
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@all
I am surprised that no-one has mentioned this OS News item yet:
http://www.osnews.com/story/22638/My_OS_Is_Less_Hobby_than_Yours

His method of deciding "hobby OS" status seems less subjective.

Although I still think it's a waste of time arguing about a definition since no-one is going to agree (it feels here like blind men arguing over the colour of a glass cup!).

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Dec-2009 at 03:20 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Dec-2009 at 03:20 PM.

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I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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Crumb 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 15:45:53
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@DiskDoctor

I think all amiga flavours are just hobby OSes but I don't think it's offensive.

The OS doesn't have features that most of people would expect from a modern OS. You could produce very good software with low bug number but that wouldn't make it less obsolete in features.

c64 had CSS browsers before AmigaOS did and that won't suddenly make c64 OS less hobbyst.

Even if we got latest Photoshop version, WoW and others our OSes will continue to be technically obsolete and the main reason to use them is because we like them and we found our amiga flavours fun to use.

Let's be creative with what we have or simply enjoy our hobby instead of being so concerned about the future. Hobby OS is not a despective term IMHO

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Arko 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 16:00:45
#73 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@Thread

If you want a Hobby OS try the OS that Kids "Toy Computers" (from PlaySchool etc.) have.


No OSes in Toy computers are professional OSes,

Because the developers are paid to program them.

Other 'toy computers' like consoles have professional OSes too.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Arko 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 16:39:48
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@cv643d

Quote:

cv643d wrote:
@Arko

Quote:
AOS4 sales could hardly pay the Friedens so they doing this as hobby like the other AOS4 developers.


Do you have a reference for that quote?


Yes, I know the estimated number of users , and the price, it is easy to calculate the turnover. if I know this values you will be surprised if they could pay two full time developers with it. But who knows, maybe the Friednes just work 25% ( or less ) for AOS4. This would explains slow progress on the Sam440 version that is still beta 2,5 years after Sam was introduced-

Last edited by Arko on 21-Dec-2009 at 04:58 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Swoop 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 16:40:07
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2121
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@clebin

Quote:
That's a very good answer but I'm still skeptical. What exactly are you trying to do?

Chris

I produce printed pricelists, which in Turbocalc I can use the macro language to automate.
On a daily basis it prints about about ten text (11 pages long) pricelists, and at the weekend it prints out about 75 graphic summary customer pricelists (single page).
I input the updated costs on a daily basis, run my pricelist macro, answer several options, and of it goes, calling other macros, changing details, and then printing the current pricelist, and then moves on to the next, etc.

Numbers on OSx doesn't have any macro function, and since version 4.5 excel uses visual basic.
Open office has it's own macro language, but, as with visual basic, looks to be a steep learning curve.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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DAX 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 16:43:49
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Crumb
Actually you mean most programmers/developers expect. Those who buy a computer with a pre-installed Windows or MacOS don't have the slightest idea about Memory protection, SMP, and the likes.

So yes for them an OS that has Firefox or the latest image authoring software is pretty much modern.
AmigaOS it's not modern in any respect mind you (we agree on this no need to argue), but from now on it can certainly walk toward that goal don't forget it's a WIP.
Did you know for example that the next update (4.1.1) was not developed by the Friedens or other members that here are marked as "OS4 Core Developers"? It was Rigo, S.Solie, RWO,Massimo Tantignone (and others) who did most of the work (while the Core Developers are probably busy with the MAP).
Let's see where it lands first

@Arko
Everybody has its definition of Hobby OS. For Crumb it is an OS without the modern features of MacOSX and Windows 7. For you it is the difference between a structured company with paid employees and what you believe Hyperion is instead (a bunch of clowns that cannot even pay the Friedens right?).

But actually no, AmigaOS is a commercially developed OS that now finally has an owner.

We'll see where we'll get thanks to this new and unexpected situation...

_________________
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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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Arko 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 17:05:31
#77 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:

Everybody has its definition of Hobby OS. For Crumb it is an OS without the modern features of MacOSX and Windows 7.


But this is the same, if AOS4 would have as much paid developers as Windows I would call them lousy programmers if the resulting OS would not have any modern features.

AOS4 and MOS misses this features because they have not enough paid developers.

Last edited by Arko on 21-Dec-2009 at 05:08 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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Zardoz 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 17:09:57
#78 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
Actually you mean most programmers/developers expect. Those who buy a computer with a pre-installed Windows or MacOS don't have the slightest idea about Memory protection, SMP, and the likes.


No, but they do have an idea about their computer crashing when they visit a dodgy site triggering a browser bug and the like. They also have an idea about their quad core computer performing exactly the same as their old single core in every-day processor intensive operations, which would be the case without some form of MP, symmetrical or otherwise.

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Kicko 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 17:15:11
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5009
From: Sweden

Now i dont even know what hobby is anymore after reading all peoples posts.

Last edited by Kicko on 21-Dec-2009 at 05:42 PM.
Last edited by Kicko on 21-Dec-2009 at 05:39 PM.
Last edited by Kicko on 21-Dec-2009 at 05:39 PM.
Last edited by Kicko on 21-Dec-2009 at 05:36 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Please stop calling AmigaOS / MorphOS a hobby os!!!!
Posted on 21-Dec-2009 17:27:12
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5187
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@eXec

ok, audio apps might have issues with wine. But I'm positively surprised how well wine sorts out occasional windows application needs. (if there is not a linux native for that)

So my 99,9% for professional apps included the use of wine.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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