@Inquisitor

Welcome!

There are two levels of Amiga Inc.
1. What I am talking about and trying to get something done about the Amiga.
2. Investors who try to make money from Amiga Inc shares.

I intersserar me just point 1. Point 2 ignore me in.

I also understand that the two paragraphs go together sometimes. This, together with what we see and hear makes us confused.

I think we will see another Amiga Inc in the near future.

Last edited by linnar on 14-Feb-2010 at 03:21 PM.

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@SHADES

He, he!
You're a good poet!

I think that Windows is good. Of course I know that it is good because many copies sold giving a lot of money that makes you can bet even more that can do even better Windows that sell even better so that the owner may so much money that he can give away some.

But I wish most of all, that we get back the Amiga OS, which sells some revenue-raising that makes it possible to use more developers that allows AOS will be even better so that it sells more so that it comes in even more money so that Bill II can also give away a part ..

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: @Thread Quote: Why? Amigaworld.net, like all other Amiga sites and forums, is a free site. Free as in free to be present and read, and free to be present and post. There is still the matter of libel laws. You might think this doesn't apply to you (anyone reading this), sitting at home, just a bloke/lass in a room with an opinion, but by posting your views on a public forum, you are subject to the same laws as a newspaper editor or a TV journalist. Libel law is international as well, so don't think you are immune because the person/company is thousands of miles away. "I think Company X is full of thieves" is opinion. "Company X is full of thieves" is libellous (if you can't provide factual evidence that would stand up on court). Free speech only works if there are ways to protect the innocent. Wither your opinions of "Company X" places them in that category or not, the law protects them (And you) from false claims and harassment. Note the purpose of this post is to provide a caveat lector to the unaware and not a dig at anyones personal views.

We agree!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
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Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@number6

> However, if you're here to solicit information to add
> to your body of work to date, I'm not sure approaching
> this anonymously is going to get you many contributions.

In an ideal world, or dealing between honest people or otherwise on the basis of trust, maybe.

In the real world, whistleblowers and witnesses are customarily given some protection, otherwise they might not dare to come out and speak.

Right now, I feel like I have 87 million reasons to use anonymizers and work out of a friend's connection. And if similar alleged behaviors by the same people also involved other companies... I don't even want to think about it.

Maybe that's one of the reasons there's been so little whistleblowing so far?

Also, there are possibly some merits in letting facts emerge or be criticized as more or less self-evident, rather than being more or less credible because of who pointed to them.

In any case, I am not expecting to be anonymous to authorities (or to Amiga, if they are determined). But I also don't have much to contribute myself. I am not a witness more than anyone of you here is. We all can only facilitate the connection and interpretation of different pieces of information.

@SpaceDruid

> "Company X is full of thieves" is libellous

Agreed. If you find anything like that in Amiga Documents, please let me know. I can make mistakes in the things I write, so feedback is crucial. Based on feedback, I revised lots of things since the text first went public.

@Thread

As I am here, maybe you can can all do something more to improve the content, report to authorities/press, etc.? Especially Amiga friends in Poland (home of Asseco Prokom), US (home of ITEC etc.), UK (companies were listed at London Stock Exchange), etc.?

The whole "coupon scam" allegation may deserve a dedicated section. How many people paid? What was promised, and what was delivered to how many people? How were payments made and to whom exactly?

More questions keep emerging under this very thread. Who reported the incorrect whois data? GoDaddy must have acted based on a report, because that's how it works. Was this related to the inconsistent whois output that some people were observing in the previous days? Some were getting correct data, some didn't. Maybe it was not an error? Had there been some attempts to change the data? Is there a fight going on about this domain that we don't know about?

Also, there was a private version of Amiga Documents that was live, and known only to a few, before amiga.com pulled the plug. Could the events be related?

@Thread

This from amiga-news.de

amiga.com shut down by provider
For eleven days the website of the company Amiga Inc. cannot be accessed. Amiga's domain hoster GoDaddy informed that the website was shut down because of the wrong address data of the domain owner. (cg) (Translation: dr)

clint

@Inquisitor

Quote:

Right now, I feel like I have 87 million reasons to use anonymizers and work out of a friend's connection. And if similar alleged behaviors by the same people also involved other companies... I don't even want to think about it.

That's an obvious reference to ProKom, right?

ok. So we know Ryszard Krauze was a member of the board of directors of Amiga Inc. But how do you make that leap?
ProKom filed a lein against Hyperion in the recent settlement with AI.

Is it not more logical to assume that having no Amiga Inc. to get their money back from...that an attorney, on behalf of ProKom, was forced to follow OS4 to its new legal owner? After all, ProKom believed they were investing in OS4, for mobile devices amongst other things.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

There is still the matter of libel laws. You might think this doesn't apply to you (anyone reading this), sitting at home, just a bloke/lass in a room with an opinion, but by posting your views on a public forum, you are subject to the same laws as a newspaper editor or a TV journalist. Libel law is international as well, so don't think you are immune because the person/company is thousands of miles away. "I think Company X is full of thieves" is opinion. "Company X is full of thieves" is libellous (if you can't provide factual evidence that would stand up on court). Free speech only works if there are ways to protect the innocent. Wither your opinions of "Company X" places them in that category or not, the law protects them (And you) from false claims and harassment. Note the purpose of this post is to provide a caveat lector to the unaware and not a dig at anyones personal views.

Well, I was scammed by the coupons so I can verify truthfully that Amiga Inc are thieves.

Take a look at their announcements and you will find that they are also liars. No. of Employees, On shcedule and rocking, etc etc.

Promising the whole town of Kent that 'A cheque is in the post' make them crooks.

In fact, the criminals and fraudsters investing in Amiga Inc eventually believed their own spiel to the extent that they forgot they were a 'cover company' and employed a real businessman, Garry Hare. That didn't end well for them.

However Garry came good with one of their commitments and gave us our t-shirts - probably what lead to his downfall!

To reiterate; Amiga Inc was a company run by fraudsters to provide cover for illegal operations and transactions by international criminals and thieves.

Happy with that?

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

However Garry came good with one of their commitments and gave us our t-shirts - probably what lead to his downfall!

or his putting his pen to the contract to allow OS4 on the AHT stb.

They would have had a product to sell if that had happened.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Chuckt

Quote:

Chuckt wrote: @SHADES Shades, It has been years since Amiga went out of business. Commodore was kind of a cult to begin with and their bankruptcy had people asking what it was all about. There was a lot of promises made. They told us that Commodore had the most loyal customers in the world and Jack Tramiel admitted there was no loyalty. Amiga customers were gouged by higher prices than PC users were paying for hard drives and third party devices. When I bought a computer I wanted the past results the company had. The Commodore 64 delivered a standard and compatibility. The Amiga 500 delivered less of a standard because there were programs written that only ran on a hard drive and other programs that didn't run on a hard drive. Then you had people pulling out the different chips to put in ones with more memory. Every update made users have to pay pay pay and those who didn't had less compatibility. It is a revolution in doing business by yanking a chain around the customers to take an audience that could afford a Commodore 64 and then they had to save and make the jump to the Amiga platform just to be yanked around by a chain to upgrade all the time. Amiga could have sold the Commodore 64 platform to CMD which would have made more sense than selling it to people who would never develop it other than a platform for the iphone. Eyetech came out with the A1 and they were missing chips and stuff didn't work. I sit back and I watch the wrangling. I don't have to put up with it because I know Bill McEwen will make bad decisions because he doesn't know how to do business on the long term. I work in a building that business tenants come and go and they never stay because the landlord doesn't know how to speak to them correctly, they don't always pay their bills on time, etc. I work with a manager that is an alcoholic and nothing is ever right when he gets involved. He rented his house out, the tenants were using space heaters and burned the house down. He paid someone money to fill the foundation with concrete and the contractor came back and said he wanted more money and even though he had a contract, he lost his house. Sound familiar? I don't care if Amiga OS4 is the best OS on the planet. Operating Systems can only do what the owners let you do with it. And if the owner is beavis and butthead then you have to take your chances because shell deals, bankruptcy, court cases make for good soap operas but they don't make for happy users. I regard them as alleged con artists and I only say alleged because I don't wish to be sued or end up in court. The only way to stop the con artistry is to not to deal with them because until you do you are going to pay to play and you can't pay them to do their job. But if you like waiting for them to come up with a million dollars to start production, I'm sure there is a sucker somewhere they can swindle if you don't mind waiting another 5 or 10 years or so for your promised hardware. And then you will probably get another Eyetech like product without processors and stuff that breaks.

So go elsewhere then if you can't complain to the manufacturer.
Or go buy a Windows PC clone that has had millions apon millions in R&D on a tried and tested platfrom that has been activly steered and developed by M$ for years.
Dragging down a company that is trying to compete or grab a small share in a market dominated by MM$ is going to have a very hard time.
There has been a lot of headway made with AMIGA including it's OS that is strangely enough, not a con, and people are useing it happily.
Go and complain to Eyetech if your mainboard isn't good enough, or Hyperion if your OS crashes when your cat farts.
It's just so easy to point the finger when something goes wrong that you don't like. Perhaps AMIGA should have got ASUS to make the mainboard. Maybe they tried abut didn't have enough $ or ASUS said no.
Point is, if you want AMIGA to survive, stop trying to tear it down. It's as simple as that.

Last edited by SHADES on 14-Feb-2010 at 09:53 PM.

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

@SHADES

Quote:

So go elsewhere then if you can't complain to the manufacturer. Or go buy a Windows PC clone that has had millions apon millions in R&D on a tried and tested platfrom that has been activly steered and developed by M$ for years. Dragging down a company that is trying to compete or grab a small share in a market dominated by MM$ is going to have a very hard time. There has been a lot of headway made with AMIGA including it's OS that is strangely enough, not a con, and people are useing it happily. Go and complain to Eyetech if your mainboard isn't good enough, or Hyperion if your OS crashes when your cat farts. It's just so easy to point the finger when something goes wrong that you don't like. Perhaps AMIGA should have got ASUS to make the mainboard. Maybe they tried abut didn't have enough $ or ASUS said no. Point is, if you want AMIGA to survive, stop trying to tear it down. It's as simple as that.

Shades,

With the help of one Amiga user, I got about 10,000 files off of some of my disks.

I have an investment in Amiga though it has been from the start which is many years ago.

When you talk about tearing down Amiga, what Amiga are you talking about? What products are you talking about? They don't answer the phone or email. They don't have any hardware product that I'm aware of. Hyperion wrote the new operating system and Amiga Inc. didn't so what they paid for isn't theirs. What existing products am I tearing down? I don't think they exist.

Amiga Inc that exists today is not the same Amiga company that others worked for.

My question is this: People got a coupon scam and boards with missing processors. What changed between now and then that you are going to get an honest deal from Amiga Inc.? One company declares bankruptcy, the IP moves and the creditors don't get paid. On one account Amiga Inc is allegedly worth 87 million dollars and there is no product. When are you going to get a product? If they were worth 87 million and there was no product then why isn't making Amigas a priority?

What changed between then and now? It is a simple question.

@number6

>> if similar alleged behaviors by the same people also involved other companies
> So we know Ryszard Krauze was a member of the board of directors of
> Amiga Inc.

And of Hakia (also ITEC/Kouri). Pattern #1.

And we know that it was Asseco Prokom who set the value of Amiga at $87M in its London Stock Exchange filing.

In four years, Asseco Prokom never corrected or otherwise clarified that valuation, did they?

> But how do you make that leap?

I did not mention Mr. Krauze here. But whoever did it, somebody stated that Amiga Delaware - without having either developed (as claimed by Asseco Prokom) or otherwise having a license for Tao/Intent - was worth $87M. That's a major thing, IMHO.

People kill, intimidate and use force for a lot less money.

Do you think Amiga (ITEC) spent 6-7 digit $ amounts in Reed Smith LLP against Hyperion because of a $25K contract? Or because Hyperion had touched the fragile $87M facade?

> After all, ProKom believed they were investing in OS4, for mobile devices amongst other things

Does "enables use of any software or IT applications on all types of mobile devices" sound like Amiga OS4 to you? OS4 did not even exist at the time. What I read in that statement sounds like the virtualization technology employed in Amiga DE aka AmigaAnywhere, not Amiga OS4.

Pattern #2: read Amiga Documents, and see how ITEC was used to transfer IP and staff from Digital Ink (similar investors as Amiga Washington - Net Ventures and Invisible Hand) to CandleDragon (similar investors as Amiga Delaware - CFO John Grzymala).

Pattern #3: "interesting" use of secured creditor contracts.

Pattern #4: Tapul-Lu Pat.

Pattern #5: Prokom-Kouri.

Pattern #6: Tapul-Kouri.

Pattern #7: Tapul-Prokom.

Pattern #8: Net Ventures-Invisible Hand.

Pattern #9: "Kouri Deals"

Person who knows a lot of things: John Grzymala.

Etc.

All of these patterns and focus areas, once identified as in Amiga Documents, may be better researched. For example, once I found a pattern like "Tapul-Lu Pat Ng", all it took me was a Google search to find the same affiliation in other (listed) companies. Imagine what the NSA, the FBI, the SEC, the IRS, etc. can find with the tools and the information they have.

That's why I think this little $87M fraud may be only the tip of the iceberg, if you consider that the same mechanisms and connections may have been applied elsewhere. Do people generally do things only once, or do they tend to repeat similar behaviors?

Of course, maybe I'm just paranoid!


Does this answer your question?

Last edited by Inquisitor on 15-Feb-2010 at 01:02 AM.

@Inquisitor

1st, all the below is public information, much of which has been posted on AW in the last 4 years. Nothing secret here in any way.

Quote:

> So we know Ryszard Krauze was a member of the board of directors of> Amiga Inc. And of Hakia (also ITEC/Kouri). Pattern #1.

If you have the other links, you know he also funded the above as well.

Quote:

And we know that it was Asseco Prokom who set the value of Amiga at $87M in its London Stock Exchange filing.In four years, Asseco Prokom never corrected or otherwise clarified that valuation, did they?

I have no idea. I've never seen any public change in that valuation, nor cared to look into it.

Quote:

Do you think Amiga (ITEC) spent 6-7 digit $ amounts in Reed Smith LLP against Hyperion because of a $25K contract? Or because Hyperion had touched the fragile $87M facade?

I have no idea what they spent on legal representation.

Quote:

What I read in that statement sounds like the virtualization technology employed in Amiga DE aka AmigaAnywhere, not Amiga OS4.

Point taken. But as I alluded to when I mentioned the lein now against Hyperion BY ProKom, it certainly seems at present their interest applies to the existing product, which would be OS4.x, as opposed to DE.

Quote:

Pattern #2: read Amiga Documents, and see how ITEC was used to transfer IP and staff from Digital Ink (similar investors as Amiga Washington - Net Ventures and Invisible Hand) to CandleDragon (similar investors as Amiga Delaware - CFO John Grzymala).

We have threads all over this site covering everything from Connectsoft on down the line. And yes, the accountant of Amiga Inc. ITEC, and Hakia (John) does seem to be a common link. And yes, I know he's had other job titles in addition to accountant.

afaik, Lu Pat was always referred to as one of the "angel investors", and this was his familys' money. The term applies to those who offer venture capital without asking any questions basically. Frankly, when his name appeared in the ITEC document, I was somewhat surprised to see it. I think Pentti was just trying to get his investment back, but I could be wrong.

If you really need links to anything I've posted above, I'm sure I can find them. Otherwise just use: http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/search.php

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Chuckt

Quote:

Chuckt wrote: @SHADES Quote: So go elsewhere then if you can't complain to the manufacturer. Or go buy a Windows PC clone that has had millions apon millions in R&D on a tried and tested platfrom that has been activly steered and developed by M$ for years. Dragging down a company that is trying to compete or grab a small share in a market dominated by MM$ is going to have a very hard time. There has been a lot of headway made with AMIGA including it's OS that is strangely enough, not a con, and people are useing it happily. Go and complain to Eyetech if your mainboard isn't good enough, or Hyperion if your OS crashes when your cat farts. It's just so easy to point the finger when something goes wrong that you don't like. Perhaps AMIGA should have got ASUS to make the mainboard. Maybe they tried abut didn't have enough $ or ASUS said no. Point is, if you want AMIGA to survive, stop trying to tear it down. It's as simple as that. Shades, With the help of one Amiga user, I got about 10,000 files off of some of my disks. I have an investment in Amiga though it has been from the start which is many years ago. When you talk about tearing down Amiga, what Amiga are you talking about? What products are you talking about? They don't answer the phone or email. They don't have any hardware product that I'm aware of. Hyperion wrote the new operating system and Amiga Inc. didn't so what they paid for isn't theirs. What existing products am I tearing down? I don't think they exist. Amiga Inc that exists today is not the same Amiga company that others worked for. My question is this: People got a coupon scam and boards with missing processors. What changed between now and then that you are going to get an honest deal from Amiga Inc.? One company declares bankruptcy, the IP moves and the creditors don't get paid. On one account Amiga Inc is allegedly worth 87 million dollars and there is no product. When are you going to get a product? If they were worth 87 million and there was no product then why isn't making Amigas a priority? What changed between then and now? It is a simple question.

I gave a simple answer. What wasn't understood?

I'd hate to think how many people have lost files due to Windows getting corrupted that M$ just said, "did you back them up??" Least you got some support!

Missing CPUs? from AMIGA? boards? yeah, really? lol
As for scams, I'm sure some people have had missing CPUs, not from AMIGA though.
T- Shirts?? coupons, Well, it was a bad decision, some got them, some didn't. I got my T-shirt, it was just an attempt by a company to try and get ppl interested in AMIGA even though it backfired. I never got my coupon but oh well. Seriously, wite a song about it but get over it.

Want to know how many people have got seriously hurt by M$ ????
Not just no T-Shirts but bought and closed buisnesses, development of technology stamped out.... H/w restriction and dare I say it steering of development.... Compare oysters with oysters.
Yeah granted, AMIGA has made some mistakes, but not evil like M$ god I remember them trying to sue Linux on infringements, hang on, they are still trying lol.

AMIGA enlisted Hyperion to write the new OS or are you missing something here. The fact there was a fight over rights is a bad thing, however, they could have chosen YOU to write the OS if they wanted to. No one is debating who wrote it!!!!! omg. seriously.

As for not being able to contact them, well, let's see you try now!
This is entirely my point, it's not a good thing, it's much worse now because now, you have practically no hope to contact them, they don't even have a website. Do you honestly think no AMIGA is going to help Hyperions sales??? you must be crazy. They are trying to plug AMIGA OS. Not Mr Jucy OS or HYPERION OS. and if they did change it to HYPERION OS, you would be limited to who?

_________________
It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

AInc value to 87miljon $ is a fictional figure is calculated by counting backwards in value Procom paid for their shares. It is most likely on the money transfer to Amiga Inc. by an investment through shares. Probably for that might otherwise have to pay any tax or other money entering the United States. AInc value of shares is not determined in this way. It is determined that day Ainc sold since Ainc not on any stock exchange.
Amiga Inc's fair value can be guessed at. If the value of the name and rights to have the same value today as when it was bought off by the Gateway value is approximately $ 5 million. Most likely, the value of Ip sink because the distance to the glory days of the Amiga. Value perhaps lies around $ 1 million so that all think Amiga Inc is today. If it proves to have a new OS increases the amount may be doubled in the initial stage. I am talking about the sale value of the shares on the market. Then there is another value which is determined by the same reasons as Sammler pay for their stuff.

I know one person who worked as a lawyer in the U.S. (now a lawyer in Sweden). I showed him the process between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. He says that the cost of each of the parties involved could be around 250,000 to 500,000 $. Some companies also have insurance against this sort of trial.

John Grzymala is / was (?) CFO for Pentti investment (Example HAKIA) and private property. Now it seems that he has taken over all entries Pentti had. It was to John Grzymala it would send the signed Amiga AA2-SDA.

The beneficial owner of Amiga Inc is probably Bill McEwen (diluted ownership), Pentti's heirs, John Grzymala, perhaps Procom (called something else now) and possibly HAKI.

Thus, the value of Amiga Inc is the same as for other small businesses plus a little more for "Sammler value", ie exp $ 1-2 million. If you find someone who absolutely want to own the name Amiga Inc could be double the value. amiga.com may be worth more than $ 1 million. Thus, the value placed on a total of $ 3-5 million.

John Grzymala is the real ruler of Amiga Inc. Probably he manages heirs ownership of Amiga Inc, which is the majority.

The cost of Amiga Inc legal case is probably not more than $ 0.5 million

All other figures are fantasies!

This I believe!

Last edited by linnar on 15-Feb-2010 at 07:09 AM.
Last edited by linnar on 15-Feb-2010 at 07:07 AM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Well, I was scammed by the coupons so I can verify truthfully that Amiga Inc are thieves.

So can I.

When I stated that Bill McEwen is a thief it is not an opinion but a statement of fact. He stole from me and I have the email he sent as proof of payment.

Being fobbed off with a T-Shirt that was not the product originally advertised is illegal under UK advertising standards.

@thread

I'm lucky enough to be in the Seattle area these days, so I decided today to pay a visit to Amiga Inc's office in Snoqualmie. I have discovered that they don't have an office there anymore, and that another company has taken their ex-office:

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff261/Varthall/Amiga%20Inc%20ex-office%20-%2014%20Feb%202010/

I have seen no sign of Amiga anywhere, and being Sunday morning there was no-one there to ask any information, but at least I could take photos freely. At this point I really wonder if they have any office at all.

_________________
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

@all

Well this doesn't suprise (or sadden) me at all. Funny thing is, a lot of the concepts described by Amiga inc are finally becoming reality - albeit not a reality for Amiga Inc.
Check out :
http://www.openscreenproject.org/
For why even AA2 is destined to fail.

@linnar

Quote:

The absolute best operating system is Windows. It has EVERYTHING! If it was as bad as you say would not have so many use it. Linux is best for those who like to keep on with the operating system. There is no need for other software. It Åste also have two lifetimes available Mac is as much fun as a stone with the world's most messy menus. An evening with the Mac and have had their dose of sleeping medicine

I disagree entirely on all of these points. These are only your opinions, and poorly researched ones at that ("if it was as bad as you say would not have so many use it" - sic).

@Varthall

Thanks for your effort..

I've tried to phone them a couple of days ago, no answer, "The number is not in use".
The office is gone and their homepage is down due to wrong contact information.. It seems like they have vanished completely!

Whats next?!

_________________
Classic!

@Alkaron

Just in case anyone is missing the BS

http://web.archive.org/web/20020628031006/http://www.amiga.com/corporate/062302-mcewen.shtml

_________________
AmigaOne X1000

@ddni

Nice memories. It is really bad that not everything went as good as hoped.