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PosterThread
linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 22:55:23
#441 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
@fairlanefastback

We do not know if they had a few developers, then, so it is difficult to know if they had something going on. Otherwise, it need not be any contradiction.


But you said it was "obvious" that they were using the money (properly) for the company. Again, I'm asking how was that "obvious" to you?

Asseco is the new company, its still publicly traded and still makes annual reports.

-link-

May be language difficulties!
I think it seems as if they used the money well. I do not know how they spent money.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Tomas 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 22:59:01
#442 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:
@SHADES

I must correct you here: Amiga never paid Hyperion anything to support development of AmigaOS 4.

Not a penny of the voucher schemes was ever paid out to Hyperion or the AmigaOS developers.

Various entities paid a minor and insufficient amount to gain access to AmigaOS 4.0. These did NOT include any incarnation of Amiga Inc (Itec, Tachyon LLC).

The original 2001 agreement was not signed by Bill McEwen but by Fleecy Moss.

All of this is public record from the court documents.

I guess they even lied about that part then.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:03:41
#443 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:
@linnar

Again, I repeat, Amiga Inc. (WA) nor Delaware contributed NOTHING financially or otherwise to the development of AmigaOS 4.x.

None of the voucher money ever ended up at Hyperion, Eyetech or the OS 4 developers.

OTOH, Hyperion did quite a bit of work for Amiga Inc. including doing a full software Mesa port for AmigaDE (for which an invoice was issued and paid may years later) and a 3D API for AmigaDE, work for which Hyperion never received any compensation.

This is a matter of public (court) record and not something which is open to factual challenge.

Hyperion did do contract work for KMOS Inc. when Amiga WA was still around, to port a demo version of AmigaOS 4.x to the IBM PDA reference design "Arctic" when Garry Hare ran KMOS. The rates charged were far below standard commercial rates for this type of highly specialised, low-level work (again, that contract is part of the court record).

This work was subsequently demoed to investors and resulted in a substantial cash investment by Tapul S.A. (share subscription of 1M USD at least - again public record).

I have not opposed the statement you made earlier in the thread. I have read some of the court minutes and saw quite clearly what is what. Some details I knew not and asked not after.

The essence of my question was about how the Amiga Inc supposed to pay for work on OS4. I guess that calculated by this from the beginning.

I understand a non answer.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:09:17
#444 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@linnar

Quote:
I think it seems as if they used the money well.


What makes you think they used the money well? What did you see from them that you thought it was a good use of millions of dollars? They did not output much of any products so I'm not understanding what you see as good output for the money.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:31:50
#445 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@linnar
If the effort you put into defending Amiga Inc was put towards programming AmigaAnywhere/etc, I think you'd have something interesting to show by now



I do not see it so that I am defending Amiga Inc. I see it more as an emotional commitment in order to use a civilicerat way to criticize. I also think that there is no understanding of the difficulties Amiga Inc had over the years for various reasons.
I also understand the frustration some are due to the idiotic idea of coupong. I also think that the visionary Bill McEwen was all too much sometimes visionary and so on.

In other words, I have a bag of criticism, but now I will only discuss a small part of this forum. The largest piece, I take time directly with Amiga Inc. on the day they are prepared to listen.

You are absolutely right when you say it takes a too much of my programming job with the writing on the forum. However, as programmer I am not in right now AA2. I work with LccWin32 and the job I am doing with an accounting program for small businesses.

Here you can see it: www.firmabok.com unfortunately is part of Swedish.

Some of my other programs on this page: www.kensonpro.com
This page contains, among other things, a programming library which I call "Cover" from the words "C over". The library contains more than 800 features and a complete manual for the programming language "C".


I also agree with the HIFI. where I construct instruments for loudspeaker measurements and microphones for: www.linnaraudio.com

The last two websites have a built-in translator that can translate into English.

I have a lot going on all the time so it is proper that I should not hang on the forum. But after a few hours of my stuff is still nice to relax with the bark on the forum members who speak an ugly language.

Last edited by linnar on 17-Feb-2010 at 11:36 PM.
Last edited by linnar on 17-Feb-2010 at 11:34 PM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Frostwolf 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:45:53
#446 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 112
From: Alabama

I bet I never get my T-shirt or my coupon either!!!

_________________
“Wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair and all the terrible things that happen to us, come because actually deserve them? So now I take comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the Universe”

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:46:48
#447 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@linnar

Quote:
I think it seems as if they used the money well.


What makes you think they used the money well? What did you see from them that you thought it was a good use of millions of dollars? They did not output much of any products so I'm not understanding what you see as good output for the money.

I guess they used the money to pay arrears of divers. I really have no idea but as an entrepreneur himself is not in my world no choice but to use the money well.
If you must speculate, it may be that the money had not with Amiga Inc to do, there may be a transaction between two actors in the market which is attributed to something else but that they used the Amiga Inc. as a "goalkeeper" for money. If so, did not Amiga Inc. some money and then it's employees completely innocent.
Such transactions are not popular in my country's authorities, and barely legal.

Is this answer you expected?
What do you think about this transaction?

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:52:04
#448 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Frostwolf

Quote:

Frostwolf wrote:
I bet I never get my T-shirt or my coupon either!!!

Rare comment!
The majority wants the money back and they do not want a cheap T-shirt.
Here you and say you want to get a T-shirt and a coupon ...


Just kidding!



Now it's bedtime for me!
Take care.!
We "meet" again soon.

Last edited by linnar on 17-Feb-2010 at 11:53 PM.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 23:58:06
#449 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@linnar

Quote:
The largest piece, I take time directly with Amiga Inc. on the day they are prepared to listen.


Ahh..ok. You intend to speak with them about some issues and discuss them.

Here's a question for you to throw at them...
Since a BIG part of their contention was that Bill was not involved in KMOS, then we need to know why he was overriding the decisions of KMOS CEO Garry Hare. Remember, Bill claimed to not be KMOS? Remember that companies were not responsible for the debts of the other incarnations of Amiga Inc. because they claimed they were not the same company?
Now, when hit over the head with this little issue of Garry Hare being CEO, we ran into a little troublesome thread here:
Where are they now? - Garry Hare

Can you see the connection?

This has -nothing- to do with investors' desires vs Bills' desires that you mentioned in your prior post as a reason why this might happen.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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davidf215 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 3:44:44
#450 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2010
Posts: 93
From: Texas

Wow. Long thread. I should have started reading a week ago.

Quote:

Varthall wrote:
...
I have seen no sign of Amiga anywhere, and being Sunday morning there was no-one there to ask any information, but at least I could take photos freely. At this point I really wonder if they have any office at all.


I think this encompasses the matter in whole. Time will reveal the rest.

I would agree that A.inc's failure to refund the vouchers is criminal because it's against the law. The customer did not receive the product intended, so it should be refunded; otherwise, it's a criminal offense. I never bought one at the time due to the potential Vaporware probability.

IMO Hyperion should get the domain as they've actually delivered an Amiga product, whether people like the product or not. Hyperion promised an updated AmigaOS, and they fulfilled their promise.

The highly competitive technology market coupled with the current economic problems makes the Amiga technologies a challenge regardless what Company obtains it.

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Chuckt 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 4:58:38
#451 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2008
Posts: 445
From: Unknown

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
Meh, no idea, but the AMIGA name, the brand itself is getting more and more tarnished every day by the looks of things. Even their own community spit the brand name out in disgust.


We all want the Amiga to survive. I'm not dissing the Amiga.

A lot of people didn't own an Amiga or an 80's computer. If you mention an Amiga, how many people will actually remember it? If you did a poll today of random people, how many people will remember it or be able to tell you about the Amiga 2000?

Those who know about the Amiga will remember that Amiga went bankrupt.

They will be wary of anything not IBM PC or Mac related because they are worried about service and support.

They will think the Amiga is 20+ years behind the times.

If they know anything about the court case they will think that Amiga Inc is not a productive company to invest their time and money into.

I want the Amiga brand to survive but questions about Amiga's business practices are a big question mark to which answering the question doesn't help make people believe in Amiga.

They know you can't run into any bookstore or any computer store and get support anymore.

They know there is limited support and limited service.

The questions surrounded Amiga back in its glory days. They used the PC compatibility of the Amiga as a reason to buy. They said if Amiga went bankrupt you could always use it as a PC.

Fewer people are into programming. There are a lot of user groups that bit the dust.

Here is a local computer user group:

http://pacsnet.org/meetings.php

Does anyone see learning C or learning Pearl on their schedule? No. People don't care anymore. They want to buy software in a box and they don't want to program.

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 5:15:10
#452 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 900
From: Unknown

Here's a little known tidbit of information that most people likely aren't aware of:

Amiga never even paid for the design of the artwork for the t-shirts.

I'll accept the www.amiga.com domain name in lieu of payment for services rendered.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 6:03:25
#453 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@linnar

Quote:
The largest piece, I take time directly with Amiga Inc. on the day they are prepared to listen.


Ahh..ok. You intend to speak with them about some issues and discuss them.

#6

I mean more to my innermost views I do not take up a frorum.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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-pekr- 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 7:48:38
#454 ]
Member
Joined: 29-May-2007
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

I am not following this thread properly, so sorry, if already discussed, but - what is actually the state of the Amiga IP? I mean - who actually owns what? Gateway licensed-but-still-owns Amiga trademark? Or was it transferred to Amiga Inc. (Amino, KMOS, whatever)?

So Hyperion has rights to use the name AmigaOS, but not the name Amiga. So who could give them those rights? Shouldn't GW be aproached, and revert the rights back from Amiga Inc., and sign new deal with Hyperion for e.g.?

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Caveman 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 7:59:19
#455 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@-pekr-

Gateway was bought by Acer later on. I am also wondering who actually owns the trademark today. If it's still Acer,i feel this will hang over us,as a Damocles Sword.

It would be very helpful to know this.

_________________

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Leo 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 8:54:42
#456 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1596
From: Unknown

I'm wondering: who cares about the trademark ? It's so weak/old... The only thing it would be useful for is nostalgia: and btw I don't understand why it hasn't been used yet: an Amiga in a joystick with a bunch of good games. Thousands of these would be sold.

As for the hardware patents, I guess most of these have ended at Gateway/Acer, or worst: in the wild... But again: who cares ?

The only thing that's worth something according to some people is an aged OS... which will need to be re-written from scratch to take advantage of new hardware sooner or later.

In 1998 maybe something was possible... but now, 12 years later, what can you expect with that brand ? Only 500 users worldwide care...

It's time for a fresh start: fresh brand, no stupid legacy/history, fresh OS, fresh applications!

Last edited by Leo on 18-Feb-2010 at 08:55 AM.

_________________
http://www.warpdesign.fr/

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 9:04:49
#457 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote:
I'm wondering: who cares about the trademark ? It's so weak/old... The only thing it would be useful for is nostalgia: and btw I don't understand why it hasn't been used yet: an Amiga in a joystick with a bunch of good games. Thousands of these would be sold.

As for the hardware patents, I guess most of these have ended at Gateway/Acer, or worst: in the wild... But again: who cares ?

The only thing that's worth something according to some people is an aged OS... which will need to be re-written from scratch to take advantage of new hardware sooner or later.

In 1998 maybe something was possible... but now, 12 years later, what can you expect with that brand ? Only 500 users worldwide care...

It's time for a fresh start: fresh brand, no stupid legacy/history, fresh OS, fresh applications!

Should you leave the Amiga World?

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Caveman 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 9:22:49
#458 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@Leo

If the brandname Amiga does'nt mean #### to you,why do you hang around here,and not in Haiku's forums? Haiku is modern,and somewhat Amigalike.

_________________

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davidf215 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 9:50:20
#459 ]
Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2010
Posts: 93
From: Texas

@Leo

Quote:

It's time for a fresh start: fresh brand, no stupid legacy/history, fresh OS, fresh applications!

Windows 7.

I think Hyperion has done a good job modernizing with AOS4.

In addition, AmigaOS 4 can be considered a new OS. A new OS will have few applications unless it has some type of emulation or OS-compatibility; otherwise, one still encounters the catch-22 problem that users want applications while developers want more users before they make apps.

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ruben 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 18-Feb-2010 12:09:58
#460 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@davidf215

Quote:
one still encounters the catch-22 problem that users want applications while developers want more users before they make apps.

Unfortunately that's the biggest problem, and there's no easy way out of it. Complete Java and Flash support would be the best bet to get a bunch of new apps immediately available. With an up to date browser you also get web apps.

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