@tiffers

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I couldn't afford an AGA machine (nor my parents at the time)

Really? That's a shame - how much did your parents cost?

Quote:

and I was hoping to save up and get an A4000. Then C= went bankrupt and I just gave up all hope (as I was eagerly awaiting the AAA chipset, which should have blown PCs out of the water by all comparisons at the time)

Uh, no, actually if AAA had been released instead of AGA, it would have been more or less on par with the PC; if AAA had been released down the road, it would've wound up like AGA, outdated out of the box.

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The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

Quote:

The main problem seems to be that x86 can't emulate PPC in decent speeds.

Seeing recent core i7 cpus manage to emulate a gamecube/wii at full speed I would say you are wrong. The x86 is fast enough to emulate the least demanding apps at full speed. Every (*every*) demanding app already exist as a x86 app (owb, mplayer, blender, games,...) so it wouldn't be that of a problem since these apps wouldn't need to be emulated.

Quote:

Apple seems to have managed that with their Rosetta, but Rosetta just translates G3 and G4 code into x86-code, it does not emulate a PPC cpu.

JIT (what you're describing as "translating g3/g4 into x86 code)" is a way to emulate a CPU: it's called dynamic emulation, as opposed to static emulation.

Quote:

How long did it take WinUAE to manage to emulate an A500?

I would say WinUAE requires to P@300mhz/P@400mhz to reach full speed without frameskip in most apps/games. But on a simple Pentium it already starts to be usable.

And btw, this emulation is supposed to be a transition... It isn't supposed to long last. The goal should be to have the emulation become useless. But like Umiself said, it seems they both lack an affordable goal, and (worst), a way to reach it...

Last edited by Leo on 21-Jun-2010 at 07:36 AM.
Last edited by Leo on 21-Jun-2010 at 07:35 AM.

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

Why are all so upset with th x1000?
There are good alternatives in Amiga land today, you have the MorphOS 2.5 on
mac mini and emacs, and the iMica and AresOne running Icaros Desktop, all for under
$300, so shere up!

@metalmac

Yes, there are alternatives. For example, if you can't afford Don Perignon, you could buy a nice Sparkly White wine, or maybe a nice Lemonade.

You can dress up alternatives all you like - but for some, its not "The real thing"
oh and if for some, the real thing is a Classic Amiga from the Commodore days, that's fine with me. However, to me AmigaOS4.1x IS THE Continuation of the AmigaOS that the original team unveiled back in 1985. Everything else to me is just an alternative. But if that's what you want, then hey, go for it!

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No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Yes, there are alternatives. For example, if you can't afford Don Perignon, you could buy a nice Sparkly White wine, or maybe a nice Lemonade.

No, no. You can buy Lemonade for $300 or Lemonade for $2800.

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OpenWindows Initiative. Port PS3 hardware to bananas. For free. Join today and receive expired $50 cupon from AI!

For me Amiga was never about building the most expensive hardware. For me it was about the "Amiga spirit" and I am glad I found that in AROS. I especially feel that coming from the guys behind it.

It doesn't matter Mikey is telling me it's not the real thing. Why would I care, Amiga died with Commodore IMHO. Everything out there is an alternative. I picked that one I feel has the brightest future. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, so I wish you best of luck to those willing to spend time/money on AmigaONE.

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@SHADES

You're making a lot of noise cursing the stone you banged your foot against.

Watching your steps takes less energy and makes for a safer and more pleasant journey...



In other words, quit blaming others and assume the consequences of your own actions. Unless you're locked up in a cell or grounded by some illness, your income is entirely up to you.

Last edited by AlexC on 21-Jun-2010 at 08:58 AM.

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AlexC's free OS4 software collection

AmigaOne XE/X1000/X5000/UAE-PPC OS4 laptop/X-10 Home Automation

@ChrisH

Quote:

OS4 runs on my 667Mhz 512MB Sam440 quite nicely, thank-you-very-much. Sure, a bit more speed for some things would be nice, but it's no way "totally underpowered" unless you only want to use it to play multi-player Quake 3 (which would be silly).

I agree with you. OS4 worked very nicely on your 667Mhz Sam and thanks for demonstration you gave me on Saturday . I had my first game on BOH and saw Quake 3 in action (running at a very good speed). You even managed to show my wife (non-Amigan) that it was possible to read, edit and save Word files on the Sam on 'Abiword' (although printer support is a problem). Thanks again and it was good to meet you.

Last edited by BigD on 21-Jun-2010 at 09:32 AM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

to sum it up - we must wait (WAIT ?) next few months (at least a month till the essen show) cos nothing precisely can be said. price is high but we don't know exactly what 'north' and 'shaving' means, it is not a good marketing strategy, nevertheless i keep my fingers crossed

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"Marxism must abhor nothing so much as the possibility that it becomes congealed in its current form. It is at its best when butting heads in self-criticism, and in historical thunder and lightning, it retains its strength" - Rosa Luxemburg.

@Tomas Quote:

Dosent even seem like they will be able to get rid of the 100 developer/beta test boards judging by the polls and responses to that news.

Trevor said that 150 people have so far applied... So you are wrong.

@Shades
Thank you for proving it's not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you . Maybe that would change if you calm down...

I hope you enjoy your OS3.x on WinUAE, but I gave up on OS3.x many years ago, as I found it gradually become totally unusable as a Windows replacement. If OS4 did not exist, I would not be using AmigaOS now.

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Jun-2010 at 09:52 AM.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Tap & Tomas for Goonies

Maybe it doesn't run that great on your low end Sams (could run just fine on 460 though, soon to be the only Sam available considering that most models are sold out) but on my Flex I can play 1:1 with no screen tearing, games like Disposable Heroes (UAE) and Blazing Stars (NeoGeo) which are far more complex games and that's under UAE/gnGeo emulation.

As ChrisH said, don't mistake an ultra bad example of programming (or porting) with what a particular HW can do. If far more complex software show it can be done, blame the makers of that particular bad performing SW not the HW it runs on, if that said HW has already demonstraded it can do far better than that in many other occasions.

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SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@Manu Quote:

It doesn't matter Mikey is telling me it's not the real thing.

I don't care if it's "the real thing" either, but I still find the experience with OS4 far superior to AROS. But if you can enjoy using AROS, as Shades apparently still enjoys using OS3.x, then great

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

i dont' want an amiga to be associated with a ford:)

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@Thread

I enjoyed the Sam 460EX demonstration, especially seeing Timberwolf in action and even attempting to play a HTML5 video (with some tweaking & possible 'Altivec' code Timberwolf will play this well on a 1Ghz CPU)! The Amiga OS seems fully ported over to the 460EX and is ready to go from a software perspective as far as I can see. Timberwolf was impressive and it was good for non-Amigans to see 'Firefox' on the Amiga. The demo running on the 460EX was also kinda groovy! The ACube guys (and the litereature) said that the 'EyeMotion' card could run Dual monitor set ups, which was another thing my wife was asking about!

All in all I think the show demonstrated a very positive step forward for the platform and I'm sure the Retro computer crowd at the VCF would have been very interested!

Last edited by BigD on 21-Jun-2010 at 10:00 AM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@ChrisH

Yeah I agree that's the best, each to their own.

(PS.I don't agree on the "far superior" bit though.)

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@Thread

In regards to the X1000; the fact the Friedens got the OS booting from a HD 'JIT' for the show was a mini-miracle and much appreciated I saw 'HJ' attempting to multitask the boingball demo, blender and at least 3 other programs but in 'Debug mode' it slowed down quite a bit. The CPU was running too hot ramped up to 1.8 Ghz so some additional fans will be added to keep it at an acceptable temperature. Trevor seems a really nice guy and I wish him and the team all the best in bringing the machine to market!

Well worth the 95 mile trip!

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@SHADES
Sorry to say but i don't think you can counter any OS4 argument as for how good you know your WinUAE set-up, you are VERY confused about what OS4 can do, how it performs (read BigD comments above, he is not an OS4 user at the moment)and what it means.

I suggest you calm down and visit back down the line, you will see further progress and understand the scope of these efforts, what they are trying to accomplish and so on.

As I said (and many others too) the X1000 is a "project" that will bring AmigaOS on premium HW once again, but both Trevor Dickinson and Verisys hinted about this being the first, certainly not the last one.
It will help modernize Amiga and who knows, make it a viable platform for cheaper solutions down the line.

One step at time, don't be mad because we can't have it all right here right now, it doesn't work like that in tiny niche markets I'm afraid.

Last edited by DAX on 21-Jun-2010 at 10:09 AM.

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SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@SHADES

Put it this way, there'll probably be more low-cost chances to buy into OS 4 than ever this year, I reckon you'll see lots of AmigaOnes on ebay for £500-mark, you could realistically pick up a PPC G4 AmigaOne XE with 1 gig of RAM for around that price, and it will run OS 4.1 better than the SAMs anyway.

The release of the x1000 will mean older AmigaOnes will probably be sold off a lot cheaper.

transcript of most of the speech

- What Trevor said
Welcome to Hyperion Entertainment , A-eon and A-cube, the premier, the only manufacturers of Amiga Os 4.1.

Today we are here to talk about the new AmigaOne X1000 and I know there a lot of question about it and what we got today is the hardware team from Varisys, we got Hyperion Entertainment, Ben Hermans, got two software engineeres the Frieden brothers, my business partner is here somewhere but most likely at the bar, and I'm here Trevor Dickinson.

So welcome to the show, the AmigaONE X1000 was conceived about upto 2 years ago, by Ben Hermans and then approached me, “how about making a new computer for OS4?” , sound like a good idea, I collected Amiga computers, if anyone knows me I've got....pause....a lot. Probably about 150 computers in my basement and about 50 off them are Amiga of all variety. But as you can see I'm very sensible, stable, well manned person, so when he said how about a new Amiga, that would be great. I would love to have new Amiga computer so it was a lucky meeting because I was actually in Belgium with Micheal Battilana from Cloanto who I was doing business with and he had a meeting that day with Ben and how about going out for a beer, and that was the day that Amiga Inc issued the law suit on the boys and so Ben said, “oh its a great day, I got this law suit and I got to meet you too” Any way long story Ben started looking at possible Hardware partners, he actually found a cpu partner first. No more info about the CPU, its not going to be said today.

They recommended a few companies and it soon became apparent that Varisys would be a better fit for us, they where successful, they had a good track record, they have been in business for a while and they also close by, they where in Europe. When we meet them we had good fit, personality, weren't just a massive company that would just override us, and become a real partner and form a real partnership, that for AmigaWorld posters by the way.

So about just over 2 years ago we started work on the project even before A-eon was formed and before we raised any money before we got anything together product wise. 2 years ago we started the work, 18 months ago we started the project and all the physical stuff started just 18 months ago, so they have been working on the hardware for 18 months we actually took that time layout the boards do all the design work, do the testing, and the testing very extensive they got a fantastic track record of supplying reliable products, and putting out quality product. So they wouldn't give it us until they were happy that it works so at the end of the last year the first boards went to the Frieden brothers, they had it in their hands since last year just as the teaser site went up, which you all loved didn't you! I thought it was fun.

Nemo motherboards have now also gone to the hardware/software developers for device drivers I like to say this system has been running for 6 months (shakes head left to right)...but it has for six months been running os4 but only in the last couple of days has it actually booted properly off the hard drive, so even this morning I wasn't sure it was going to work but the Frieden brothers turned up with the kit with the board with the hardware with a hard disk drive booted it up and thank goodness it work so it does work.

Its still running off debug software so its not as smooth as it should be but you know Hypeion they will deliver, you know they will get the software working just right, thats why were running a beta testing program as well. The beta tester will make sure we dont have a amigaone xe, excell problem, the AmigaONE X1000 they go out and the machine works high quality product and bring the Amiga back where it should be, 25 years after the original machine was launched you have a product that at last, your be able to say Yes this is an Amiga, Yes its good quality, Yes it works, it may not be grand braking as the original Amiga but for us enthusiast, me in particular, its deferentially an Amiga computer.

So just like to say thank you for coming, we have Varisys here the Managing Director and the Technical Director they will help you out, the Director of Hyperion Ben Hermans, in his spare time, I was going to say lawyer but that sounds terrible, he actually properties developer, he got some properties, that's his real job my other business partner Tony Moorley is somewhere, problaly still at the bar, the Frieden brothers are hear somewhere, hiding, two Acube managing partner are here Ricko and Max,

so you want to buy a X1000 today (shake head left to right) but you can always buy a Sam they make excellent products, showing off there 460 which is the new Sam, 1Ghz processor so its getting up their, I would say it brings the sam with more hardware better than the Pegasos at 1Ghzs today the Pegasos is probably the better machine but the new Sam with the modern hardware is better than the Pegasos, Yes (nod from Acube) yep. So if you got any questions do ask them.

Last edited by amigang on 21-Jun-2010 at 01:08 PM.

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@All

Amiga X1000 on the register.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/21/amiga_x1000/

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No cause is lost if there is but one fool left to fight for it.