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AmigaBlitter 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:00:26
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@thread
@hyperionmp

Any plans to port OS4 to a Cell BE powered computer?

I remember someone say: Cell is target platform for OS4, or something similar.



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-Sam- 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:01:58
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3027
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@koft

Quote:
The chip was under NDA supposedly but the machine was intended to be for sale before summer. Guess what, it's summer now. It can't possibly be under NDA. We know what it is now and that's not a part that would be subject to NDA. Even if it was in the past under NDA, it obviously wouldn't be now. When will A-Eon stop playing games and just be honest with the community?


How do A-Eon benefit by not revealing the CPU? They are only doing this as part of their agreement to their supplier - what possible other reason would there be?

Quote:
Do you think it makes sense to lord over NDA on a pa6t that the whole world knows about and 80% of amiga nuts guessed it from day one?


Well of course not - which is my point - they can only be keeping it secret as agreement to their supplier. What on earth is wrong with that? Besides - you don't know a single thing about the NDA that A-Eon are under.

Quote:
All Verisys cares about is a check in the mail for services rendered.


As does any company.

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-Sam- 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:05:35
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3027
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@koft

Quote:
I do this stuff for a living. (EE work and software development), I've never had to deal with NDA from a supplier. A few times I've had to sign an NDA for access to technical literature regarding a part. This whole wrapped in secrecy thing with A-Eon stinks to high heaven from my perspective. This is an operation run by underfunded amateurs. Sorry y'all, that's how I see it.


So just because you have never personally had an NDA with a supplier it must therefore mean the entire world never has either?

Awesome logic.

I fail to see how this 'stinks to high heaven'. Of what? Just because the CPU hasn't been revealed hardly qualifies A-Eon as being amateurs although I am sure that they would be the first to say they wouldn't mind more funding.

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:21:00
#104 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@-Sam-

Quote:

-Sam- wrote:
@koft

Quote:
The chip was under NDA supposedly but the machine was intended to be for sale before summer. Guess what, it's summer now. It can't possibly be under NDA. We know what it is now and that's not a part that would be subject to NDA. Even if it was in the past under NDA, it obviously wouldn't be now. When will A-Eon stop playing games and just be honest with the community?


How do A-Eon benefit by not revealing the CPU? They are only doing this as part of their agreement to their supplier - what possible other reason would there be?


They benefit because it allows them to keep hammering on the hype. You don't know what the processor is, so obviously it's something awesome. They're exploiting the fact that the faithful are willing to be led around by the collar.

Quote:

Quote:
Do you think it makes sense to lord over NDA on a pa6t that the whole world knows about and 80% of amiga nuts guessed it from day one?


Well of course not - which is my point - they can only be keeping it secret as agreement to their supplier. What on earth is wrong with that? Besides - you don't know a single thing about the NDA that A-Eon are under.


I don't beleive that they are actually under such an agreement. I've never seen such an anal agreement and I've been in the industry for over 10 years. Like I said before, these NDA's are usually confined to access to technical literature. Companies that wish to restrict advertising their parts until a specified time don't talk to small companies. A-Eon's claims regarding this doesn't make any sense. In any sense, like I said earlier, optimally A-Eon would be shipping the A1X1K right now. Surely they wouldn't be under NDA when shipping product to customers. So what gives? This is an operation run by amateurs. The hype machine is running without oil and its starting to tick.

Quote:

Quote:
All Verisys cares about is a check in the mail for services rendered.


As does any company.


Obviously, but according to the spokesman for A-Eon, the PCB design firm actually thinks that the A1X1K will be a success and drive sales. That's delusional.

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:29:21
#105 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@-Sam-

Quote:

-Sam- wrote:
@koft

Quote:
I do this stuff for a living. (EE work and software development), I've never had to deal with NDA from a supplier. A few times I've had to sign an NDA for access to technical literature regarding a part. This whole wrapped in secrecy thing with A-Eon stinks to high heaven from my perspective. This is an operation run by underfunded amateurs. Sorry y'all, that's how I see it.


So just because you have never personally had an NDA with a supplier it must therefore mean the entire world never has either?

Awesome logic.


It's not standard for the industry to do this. Like I said before, most companies would practically blow you to get you to advertise using their part in a design. NDA for price list, that's understandable. NDA saying you can't tell potential customers what part you are using in your product, nah. Nobody does that. That's absurd man, unless you are talking about something hardcore cutting edge that's going to be used in volume. In that case, said company wouldn't even acknowledge the existence of a small, low volume company like A-Eon pushing software that would hardly be considered cutting edge in 1990.

Quote:

I fail to see how this 'stinks to high heaven'. Of what? Just because the CPU hasn't been revealed hardly qualifies A-Eon as being amateurs although I am sure that they would be the first to say they wouldn't mind more funding.


They did say they'd like more funding, it's called the "beta" program. You sign an NDA which stifles your free speech and dump a bunch of money. You work for free while the freedon brothers trash folks on the forums and other AOS4 developers let you know that you can catch fire.

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:34:23
#106 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@amigang

Quote:

amigang wrote:
@koft

So lets get this right your complaining about a company that has generated more interest and momentum in the Amiga world and OS4 for a long time, complain about the fact they are going to offer Amiga users an option of a high end machine and they just shouldn't give that option because it out of some people budget and reach, and complain about the fact that there no cheap alternative, Sam460 about half the price, sam440 about 1 third of the price, second hand systems about one, sixth of the price and then there the free alternative of still using a amiga like OS, with either Aros or UAE.

why are you here again?


High end? Say what? 1.8GHz PPC is high end? 1500 GBP for that? Second hand systems for 1/6 of the price? In what fantasy land? I've seen AmigaOne systems go for $1000 USD.

AROS is great, I use it, and I'm getting a PPC Emac soon, to run MorphOS. Those are good deals. I have no problem with those platforms. Stuff you can buy and still have money left for beer to enjoy while having fun.

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:46:18
#107 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote:
@koft

What would *your* ideal, reasonably realistic, scenario be for what can be achieved today? And what can you do to get there?


You'd have to do what the A1000 did. Something nobody has seen or imagined yet. The a1000 delivered kick ass graphics and an OS that cut corners but ran fast on low cost processor while providing a better multitasking system than what was available at the time on micros that weren't running unix. It's easy to identify what was awesome in the past, what stood out above the crowd. What would be the same today? I don't know, the things I've mentioned are standard and pervasive. What would knock your socks off today? I don't know, if I did know, I'd be a wealthy guy perhaps.

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ddni 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:48:21
#108 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@koft

Any potential UK X-1000 purchasers may hope it is on the market before january 1st next year... Our VAT will jump to 20% then

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:48:47
#109 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@Akiko

Quote:

Akiko wrote:
@koft


Quote:
What's worse, the hype machine from this company has been so absurd that it makes one want to vomit.


I guess it must be difficult for you and your freinds to deal with the fact that A-EON and AmigaOS are capable of drawing some interest beyond the existing community.


It's not drawing any interest. The preview of the A1X1K wasn't even featured on Slashdot, which I found supprising considering that Amiga highlights have often been featured on there in the past. Nothing but the sound of crickets chirping.

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DAX 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:50:26
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@koft
you are hijacking the thread (with a stinking pile of BS I might add),but alas what you want to state here has nothing to do with the topic, start your own.

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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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-Sam- 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:53:13
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3027
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@koft

Quote:
They benefit because it allows them to keep hammering on the hype. You don't know what the processor is, so obviously it's something awesome. They're exploiting the fact that the faithful are willing to be led around by the collar.


Yes but that's senseless. The public will know the details before they buy it so if they don't think it's 'wow' enough they still won't buy.

To be honest if they announced it now it won't make people any less interested as we don't know how good or bad the new CPU will be in the X1000 - we'll only know that at review point. Most people only really have a feel for how fast PC Intel chips are. So they could still keep everyone 'hyped' even if they released the details.

Quote:
I don't beleive that they are actually under such an agreement. I've never seen such an anal agreement and I've been in the industry for over 10 years.


That still doesn't mean that such an NDA doesn't exist. Would it not be possible for the NDA to include clauses such as only when the machine is QA checked and ready for release? Really - neither of us know anything about the NDA so we have no room to comment. To suggest that A-Eon somehow benefits from the NDA by creating a 'hype screen' is in my opinion nonsense.

Quote:
according to the spokesman for A-Eon, the PCB design firm actually thinks that the A1X1K will be a success and drive sales. That's delusional.


This is a BS statement - all companies put this sort of thing out. It is standard company marketing. I don't like these old Amiga Inc. style press releases either but it is a standard document. They were hardly likely to say - 'we're just doing it for a quick buck'. Varisys have some sales from their customers of A-Eon so they are BSing it up as much as they can from mutual benefit short term or not. Standard stuff.

As it happens I agree with you. I think any chance of the X1000 being a roaring success of any kind is highly unlikely. I do however support A-Eon and Hyperion and genuinely believe that they are doing their very best. I think they are very courageous in trying this and I hope they succeed.

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-Sam- 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:59:05
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3027
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@koft

Quote:
a small, low volume company like A-Eon pushing software that would hardly be considered cutting edge in 1990.


Oooo! Meiow! Cat claws and everything!

So we're turning this into an OS4 is sh** topic now are we?

Quote:
You sign an NDA which stifles your free speech and dump a bunch of money. You work for free while the freedon brothers trash folks on the forums and other AOS4 developers let you know that you can catch fire.


You're funny. You sign the NDA through choice - no-one holds a gun to your head. If people want to pay to test the X1000 then that is their choice. They do it because they enjoy it - even if it comes to nothing. If you don't like that - then don't do it - don't whine about it in forums.

I detect a slight negative undercurrent of wanton destruction on everything A-Eon/Hyperion based in your postings which may just slightly be skewing your views somewhat.

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geen_naam 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 14:59:13
#113 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@TheKorn

About the thermal issue. Remember that only 1 CPU is used, the second one is gated off.
And it could be that the design has had a die shrink to 40nm or something.

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-Sam- 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:02:02
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 3027
From: Yorkshire Dales, United Knigdom

@koft

Quote:
It's not drawing any interest. The preview of the A1X1K wasn't even featured on Slashdot,


On The Reg though. Which I prefer to Linuxdot sorry Slashdot anyway.

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Boot_WB 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:06:29
#115 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@koft

Quote:
They benefit because it allows them to keep hammering on the hype. You don't know what the processor is, so obviously it's something awesome. They're exploiting the fact that the faithful are willing to be led around by the collar.

Or, they're sticking to the terms of the NDA.
I would expect that the initial processor order at the moment to be on the scale of 'samples,' since as we all know the board is not yet shipping.
If that is the case, I can fully believe that the terms of an NDA would be applicable until a production level order was placed.

Quote:
I don't beleive that they are actually under such an agreement. I've never seen such an anal agreement and I've been in the industry for over 10 years.

Black Swan Problem?

Quote:
Like I said before, these NDA's are usually confined to access to technical literature. Companies that wish to restrict advertising their parts until a specified time don't talk to small companies. A-Eon's claims regarding this doesn't make any sense. In any sense, like I said earlier, optimally A-Eon would be shipping the A1X1K right now. Surely they wouldn't be under NDA when shipping product to customers.

Please see above re NDA.

Quote:

So what gives? This is an operation run by amateurs. The hype machine is running without oil and its starting to tick.

Actually I believe Trevor and Anthony are professional Engineers (if memory serves), with a track record of successful business startup and a reputation for technical excellence.
Since you are accusing others of being unprofessional, I would be interested to know your professional experience.

How would you prefer the product be marketed, given the premise that the CPU cannot be revealed at this time?

Quote:

Obviously, but according to the spokesman for A-Eon, the PCB design firm actually thinks that the A1X1K will be a success and drive sales. That's delusional.

That's good business.
Please advise me of any successful business venture which started with the design & manufacturing subcontractor stating that he did NOT believe it would drive sales and be successful.

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billt 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:07:44
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

@koft

Quote:
Sorry y'all, that's how I see it.


You're welcome to your opinion, but don't feel too bad if not everyone agrees with you.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:08:16
#117 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@-Sam-

Quote:

-Sam- wrote:
@koft

Quote:
It's not drawing any interest. The preview of the A1X1K wasn't even featured on Slashdot,


On The Reg though. Which I prefer to Linuxdot sorry Slashdot anyway.


I like the reg too, thanks for bringing them up, I haven't been there in a while. Too bad that article was written by a chimp.

Quote:
The XCore allows fine-grained parallel processing and the equivalent of 256 loosely coupled cores. At least eight threads are available at any one time.


256 loosely coupled cored? Say what!? This author knows nothing about what he writes.

Last edited by koft on 22-Jun-2010 at 03:11 PM.

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billt 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:10:31
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3204
From: Maryland, USA

@koft

Quote:
I'm still not buying the NDA claim. Come on, was PA Semi so anal that they had a clause in the agreement that one couldn't state they they're using their part until *after* it was actually available to end users?


I'll try to remember and look up what was required of me.

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geen_naam 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:10:33
#119 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@koft

Quote:
I do this stuff for a living. (EE work and software development), I've never had to deal with NDA from a supplier. A few times I've had to sign an NDA for access to technical literature regarding a part. This whole wrapped in secrecy thing with A-Eon stinks to high heaven from my perspective. This is an operation run by underfunded amateurs. Sorry y'all, that's how I see it.


Funny, I'm in the same business and I have to deal more and more with NDAs.

Maybe you hould use a more advanced ucontroller then a michrchip PIC16F84.....

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koft 
Re: X1000 CPU clue :)
Posted on 22-Jun-2010 15:12:07
#120 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2007
Posts: 493
From: USA, TN, Memphis

@Geennaam

Quote:
Maybe you hould use a more advanced ucontroller then a michrchip PIC16F84.....


My latest product incorporated an XMOS xs1-l1 in the design. Also, don't slam folks for using the PIC, they're cheap and often computational power is of no concern. It's an industry work horse and for good reason. We're not all developing guidance systems for the US Military you know.

Last edited by koft on 22-Jun-2010 at 03:14 PM.

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