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PosterThread
ChrisH 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 18:02:57
#221 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@kas1e Quote:
Everything going pretty slow must to say,

How do you conclude this? Stuff is being worked on for sure, it's just not ready yet, so they don't announce it yet... Seems lots probably going on behind the scene, IMHO.

Quote:
and sad that all of this by hyperion/aeon taked as hobby only, without thinking about real marketing and new blood attracting :(

Who says Hyperion or A-Eon is a hobby? Some people misinterpreted (perhaps intentionally) what was said, I think.

On the contrary, Hyperion & A-Eon clearly wants to grow the OS4 market - they just don't have delusions of granduer. Hyperion & A-Eon are businesses, which means they CAN'T spend silly sums of money on marketing before the product is ready, etc. And remember we are still in (or possibly coming out of) a major world recession, so it's great that Hyperion are still around at all.

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zerohero 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 18:35:57
#222 ]
Team Member
Joined: 4-May-2004
Posts: 2524
From: Uddevalla, Sweden

@ChrisH

Quote:
Seems lots probably going on behind the scene, IMHO.


How do you conclude this?

From what I've seen and read from this weekend it's more of the same. A lot of future promises with very little now. Personally I find the most interesting piece of "news" was that only five X1000 was going to be built this year. That puts them quite far away from any kind of promises they've tried to make.

The lack of substance really concerns me, to be honest.

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kas1e 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:16:05
#223 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@CrhisH
Quote:

How do you conclude this?


Just by the words "gallium is planned" for example. New gfx subsystem and new opengl is planned for last 5 (or even 10) years i think. We know all about all that plans. Its says milion times in forums about all those perspectives and plans, but its only plans. Which sadly to say (because of luck of time and resources) get pretty loong way. We all will die (and developers too), while all that plans will be reality :)

And even worse, when i see that one (!) man (deadwood), do on AROS everything alone, not for so long time ... All that plans here looks just a bit as words only. To be honest, i was in hope, that works on Gallium _already_ started. But if it only in plans, then i cant imagine when we will have full opengl for example :) And how many time will take bug-fixing, and speeduping (if it will have place, because as i can see on Warp3D example, bug-fixing and speedup-ing its not priority).

That all sounds a bit sad , yes. But that how i feel it for now. Hope to be wrong, and to know that after 6-12 monts we will have Galium+mesa which will fast and cool with all those new radeonHD drivers.

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djrikki 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:32:15
#224 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

Actions speak louder than words.

A plan is a plan, is a plan.

And as long as it still is a plan the likes of kas1e will be stuck porting s##t 2D games forever or slow-ass 3D games.

Last edited by djrikki on 25-Oct-2010 at 07:33 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 25-Oct-2010 at 07:33 PM.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:37:09
#225 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1305
From: CRO

@zerohero

It was clearly said by a-eon and hyperion boys they wish to stay a hobbyist market. So, I think it's time for OS4 users to admit they will not be getting that much official support as frequent as they would like. After all, how many devs are working on OS4? I've never seen anybody else mentioned beside the Frieden brothers. Are there any other OS4 hyperion devs?

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KimmoK 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:40:32
#226 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@kas1e

"And even worse, when i see that one (!) man (deadwood), do on AROS everything alone,"

A-Eon or hyperion should hire deadwood then.


Or at least Trevor should send him a x1000 to encourage mesa & Gallium port to AOS4.

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sundown 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:45:11
#227 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5115
From: Right here...

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Are there any other OS4 hyperion devs?

Last I heard, around 30 developers. Sorry, no link to that information, but I do know the beta testers are always getting new updates for the next release. No release date has been given yet.

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number6 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 19:49:57
#228 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10867
From: In the village

@sundown

Well...this phrase he used could produce many different responses:

Quote:
OS4 hyperion devs


Some would answer that Hyperion is Ben alone...so no.
Some would answer that the Friedens are part of the heart and soul of Hyperion and say "2".
OS4 developers would prompt yet a different answer.
Then we have people who used to control parts of certain things that might not be associated in the same way...
Then you have active vs inactive. People sometimes come and go here, like Jamie.
It gets complicated to deliver a #. heh.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Oct-2010 at 08:36 PM.

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zerohero 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 20:09:47
#229 ]
Team Member
Joined: 4-May-2004
Posts: 2524
From: Uddevalla, Sweden

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Are there any other OS4 hyperion devs?


There are others working on AmigaOS4, I don't know if they're Hyperion devs or contractors alone.

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OldFart 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 20:28:05
#230 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2928
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@number6

Quote:
It gets complicated to deliver a #.

Let alone doing some arithmetic with it like x 86...

OldFart

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Mechanic 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 21:15:42
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown


The important thing about AmiWest, now that it's history, is- - - It Happened.


And the beat goes on.

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g01df1sh 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 22:13:03
#232 ]
Super Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2009
Posts: 1675
From: UK

@Mechanic

No News to talk about since VCF how sad. Im loosing the faith. And feel I will be reading the spectacular fall of Hyperion BOOK soon. Thought Ainc where slowing things down guess I was wrong about that. No change since Ainc is now gone.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 22:17:36
#233 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9114
From: Unknown

@g01df1sh

Quote:
No News to talk about since VCF how sad. Im loosing the faith.


My faith is strong...

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Trev 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 22:47:51
#234 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2005
Posts: 777
From: Sacramento, CA, USA

@ChrisH

Quote:

Who says Hyperion or A-Eon is a hobby? Some people misinterpreted (perhaps intentionally) what was said, I think.


Trevor used the word hobby on Saturday morning. I don't think he meant "just a hobby," and I'm sure Trevor and Ben would like to see a return on their investment. I think they're working as quickly as their budget and resources allow. (I also overheard Ben whisper a wouldn't-it-be-nice dollar amount, but I'm pretty sure he was responding to one of Trevor's comments in jest.)

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clusteruk 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 25-Oct-2010 23:23:43
#235 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1525
From: Marston Moretaine, England

The kind of money Trevor has invested does not normaly get put in as a hobby. It is true that Trevor loves Amiga's and wants to give the community a new high end Amiga, but he will see it break even and so will his partner who is not an Amigan.

I do wish everybody who claims to be an Amigan would appreciate Trevors faith in this community and the Amiga spirit that we all love. The only critism I think may have credibility is that most of us cannot afford it, that is not his failing or a problem with the X1000 it is just small scale, first round costings. However, knowing the costs involved the price was always going to be high, or shall I say, a mid range Mac kind of price.



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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 1:52:06
#236 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 568
From: Melbourne, Australia

@clusteruk

I know you're a very possitive and easygoing fellow, but here is where your points don't stand up.

There really isn't a ceiling on the amount of money one may spend on a hobby project. It all depends on your endeavor and how much disposable wealth you have i.e. Paul Allen spent millions on Tech TV, the kind of money that could have made a world of difference for many other ventures but for Allen it was an amount worth spending on a hobby project.

Then there are the differences in fields of ventures. In web applications $200k is a serious amount, in computing hardware it's not, especially in to more esoteric part of the spectrum.

I'd like to see Trevor and/or Ben go on The Lion's Den with their business plan based on hopes and dreams and goodwill toward Amigans, and see how much they could raise.
Good intentions are all warm and fuzzy and work like a Jedi mind trick, but they need to drop the words 'hope' and 'if' so profusely used in their communiqués, and replace them with 'know' and 'will'.

Furthermore, as a senior partner of the A-Eon venture he had full oversite of the hardware strategy. If he wanted to give the community a new Amiga then maybe a little research about how much the average Amigan is willing to spend would have helped. That way they might have come to the conclusion that with a small community you start small and cost effective. Actually, given their miscalculation, there's a pretty good chance that the delays on the X1000 are largely due to working out areas for cost cutting. Not that they'll ever thell us.

Last edited by agami on 26-Oct-2010 at 01:53 AM.

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kindergip 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 6:15:16
#237 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2004
Posts: 312
From: Canada

@all

I was at AmiWest this year. I talked to people like Steve Solie and
Jamie Kruger. I even got to sit down with Trevor, Ben, Hans and Thomas
as well as Jens in informal conversations.

I also really enjoyed myself.

I like the part that when the X1000 comes out that it will be in a
proprietary box with fully spec'd GFX, RAM and so on. That seems to
avoid any hotrodding modifications on their dollar and warranty as
well as reputation.

I also like the fact that they don't feel a need to pander to any
one group or the loudest voices. A business plan is a good thing to
my way of thinking. It also seems like a workable plan to be accomplished
by stages and scored by milestones.

In 1994 Commodore disappeared. The Amiga was bought and sold but nothing
new materialized until Hyperion and Eyetech took the job on. From that
effort we got the AmigaOne, SE, XE and Micro as well as OS4.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2339 is a
debriefing of that attempt for the community to ponder.

How does a small business grow a product into something viable?

The Amiga community didn't get a vote on what Commodore sent to market.
They bought something that fulfilled their wish list or made their
dreams come true.

In the end the third party vendors were coming up with better faster
and more complete options for the Amiga that utilized its expandibility
and flexibility.

That no longer exists. We have no billion dollar company running things.

So now we have a couple or three entrepreneurs, some, complete Amiga
zealots at the core, investing their money, time and effort in our
collective want. Most of them have been successful before. Some are
trying this out for the first time in AmigaLand.

Since they pay the bill and take the risks, they also get to call the
shots. That's a good system because they are motivated to succeed.

So far we have an OS, Hyperion's doing. We have a base machine working
past the AmigaOne SE's, XE's and Micros in the SAM series from ACube.
There is a next generation machine embodied by the X1000 with dual
proceesor cores, a new custom chip and many useful features that we
haven't had before coming from A-EON.

I saw a SAM 460 working and played with it. I saw the prototype X1000
and played with it. These things are real. When the REV2 X1000 board
is finalized the 5 key hardware testers will bang on it before any
commitment is made to make the betatester run, a much larger investment.

In the meantime we wait.

I don't mind.

I'd rather have this process drag on and get things right as opposed to
creating fail and have the howling dogs barking from their armchairs of
negativity and baying to the moon of "I told you so".

After listening to the talks given by Ben and Trevor I am reassured.

I don't mind paying the higher price at the start of the process.
I am not being forced to use a pc or mac or an OS that I really don't
like. I am continuing on with the Amiga a 25 year investment on my
part.

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 8:31:05
#238 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Naysayers
Quote:
I'd rather have this process drag on and get things right as opposed to creating fail and have the howling dogs barking from their armchairs of negativity and baying to the moon of "I told you so".

Read that definition well and ponder about it, then get to the keyboard and ponder about it some more, then hit reply, and this time do ponder about it very deeply. If all went well you will close your browsers without typing a single letter.

It will mean you finally realized you are just being a tremendous hinder to the entire community and Amiga (any flavor) itself.

Everybody will thank you to no end for it.

Last edited by DAX on 26-Oct-2010 at 08:43 AM.
Last edited by DAX on 26-Oct-2010 at 08:31 AM.

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Zylesea 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 9:22:35
#239 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2174
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@kindergip

Quote:

kindergip wrote:

In 1994 Commodore disappeared. The Amiga was bought and sold but nothing
new materialized until Hyperion and Eyetech took the job on. From that
effort we got the AmigaOne, SE, XE and Micro as well as OS4.




That's wrong. After CBM went out of business, Escom took over. They produced A1200 (not a new design though),the A4000 tower (new revision) and improved OS 3.1. They also showed the prototype for a new Amiga - the walker.
Then Gateway took over and later the McEwen bucnch and we saw OS 3.5 and 3.9 done by H&P. A while the Pegasos by bpllan/Thendic was also labeled as A1, but eventually was not sold with that label. Funnily enough OS4 works on it (well on the Peg2) today.

Quote:

There is a next generation machine embodied by the X1000 with dual
proceesor cores, a new custom chip


There is no custom chip. If you refer to the XMOS chip, that one is not custom designed, but an off the shelf part.

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KimmoK 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 10:12:05
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Zylesea

Customizable chip is more proper name for it.
A (another) chip that never has been on a generic purpose computer motherboard (implies also that the board has custom design instead of being a "off the self" / standard one).

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