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      /  Amiwest 2010 - News
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PosterThread
ChrisH 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 17:17:28
#301 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@elatour Quote:
When I heard recently that the original AmigaOne X1000 would not include any AOS4 support for XMOS access or leverage it in any way

You are wrong. Trevor has said that someone involved with the Xmos itself is porting the Xmos tools to OS4. (see here.)

@zerohero Quote:

Quote:
Seems lots probably going on behind the scene, IMHO.

How do you conclude this?

Because I don't immediately jump to the worst possible conclusion? Because we know from past experience that OS4 developers tend to keep quiet until stuff is nearly ready? Because we know some stuff like USB2 & a new Shell are basically done, and it's not a stretch that other stuff is being worked on too?

But anyway, we heard some promising reports already, for example AmigaKit said:
Quote:
Key AmigaOS and Timberwolf developers, Hans-Joerg and Thomas Frieden gave us an incitful overview of the hard work that they and the OS 4 team had put in over the last year.

Also here. And there's also some info which seems to not have been clearly reported yet...

Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Oct-2010 at 06:15 PM.

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Trev 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 17:30:57
#302 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Jul-2005
Posts: 777
From: Sacramento, CA, USA

@ChrisH

Quote:

Please quote them precisely


Hopefully, someone will post audio or video of Trevor's Saturday morning introduction, and you can listen to him yourself....

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elatour 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 20:21:57
#303 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada

@ChrisH

Well, what you linked to was actually someone interpreting what Trevor said at another show, but I had not heard of this until I read Trevor's reponse in a Q&A with him released two days after I posted here about understood from others' reporting of what had been said at Amiwest. Before then, I had only heard from other AmigaOne X1000 enthusiasts on this board that it would not be available or released with the system. But let's hear it from Trevor himself:

Quote:
Q: You have talked about the XENA recently and your wish of having some implementations shipping with the system showcasing its abilities. Any chance on hinting what you had in mind? (as there are quite a lot of different abilities available)

A. We are in discussion with Varisys and an XMOS developer and hope to release more information on this later.

Q: Would you be willing to shed some light on possible boards for the XORRO port A-EON might be thinking of developing/releasing. ( I/O / LAN / SID! / and boards similar to those avalible for the standard XMOS offerings, XC-2 Ethernet Kit for instance)

A. See the answer above.

Bottom line as far as I can tell, at least in this and everything else that I have read (please excuse if I missed something else), is that we know nothing about what, when or if anything will be released with the system when it is made generally available for purchase some time next year, only that there is a possibility of releasing information on something showcasing it at a future date.

Last edited by elatour on 28-Oct-2010 at 09:12 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 21:42:05
#304 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@elatour Quote:
Well, what you linked to was actually someone interpreting what Trevor said at another show

Sorry my link didn't meet your high expectations, next time maybe I shouldn't bother to link at all? Anyway, I had some time to look closer at the interview from September 12th (transcribed here), and what Trevor apparently said was:
Quote:
Trevor: ... One of the good things is we will be supplying a board to a developer who is going to produce the programming tools for that board. So that is very good. And, it is closely linked to the XMOS company itself.

Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Oct-2010 at 09:45 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 28-Oct-2010 at 09:44 PM.

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T-J 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 21:44:28
#305 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@elatour

I don't get it. He said that they are in discussion with Varisys and an XMOS developer. Before, at the AmigaRoundTable interview, he said he'd like to have a demonstration and that Varisys have some ideas.

Now, in addition to Varisys we have an actual XMOS developer also thinking that its a good idea, and they're discussing what to actually release with the X1000.

Still, you can put a negative spin on anything I suppose.

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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 22:07:50
#306 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@T-J

Of course. This particular glass is four fifths empty. 'Discussing' is the key word here. It's what politicians use to say nothing is really going on. All they're doing is talking. No time estimates given on when talking will turn into doing. They're not even sure what exact shape the demonstration will take. They're donating a beta board to an XMOS (or XMOS linked) developer, that's nice, well I guess he's going to drop everything and get right on to developing those tools for AmigaOS 4.

It'd be like if the A1000 was released without AmigaOS support for Agnus, Paula, and Denise, and Commodore said there'll be a tool released at some point to take advantage of the custom chips. Not a 1:1 comparison but you get the point.

What it boils down to is; many Amigans expected OS level integration of the Xena. But perhaps that would be considered too ambitious a project.

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T-J 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 22:23:42
#307 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@agami

One of the main selling points of the XMOS architecture is that it enables rapid development. What would take months to achieve with FPGAs can be achieved in weeks with XMOS. That's what the XMOS engineers say, and its backed up by what their customers say.

And of course discussing how much this particular glass contains is pointless. When you are at a bar, do you complain to the barkeep that your glass is 'half-empty' when he's still halfway through pouring it?

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opi 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 22:26:44
#308 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@ChrisH

Quote:
some suggest even pay your wages...


"Some suggested", really? Some suggested that PowerPC fans are more likely to commit rape. This is fun. Can "one suggest" that you should not make such accusations. His posts are poor and fanboish, judge them by its merit.

Character assassination is lame.

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elatour 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 28-Oct-2010 23:44:26
#309 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada

@T-J & ChrisH

Why so bloody hostile? The quote informing me of this other statement by Trevor would have been enough, so thanks for that, but no thanks to the freaking attitude. That I can definately do without. Man, I just don't get all the drama from some of you folks whether red, blue, purple or whatever camp you're in. I'm just a long time Amiga user and fan, not a freaking disciple of any camp!

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T-J 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 0:41:53
#310 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@elatour

Apologies if my response was too hostile. But the instant leap from 'not tied into the system at the OS level upon release' to 'not supported in any way, shape or form by OS4' that you seem to have made did irritate.

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kindergip 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 1:19:01
#311 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2004
Posts: 312
From: Canada

@ll

You know, you can speculate all you want and count the angels dancing
on the heads of pins til the cows come home and it won't change a
blessed thing.

Really.

There's this club, where people put up their time and money and get to call
the shots because of it. Then there is this gallery of commentators who just
talk incessantly comparing this to that or apples to oranges or jab one another
about their opinions.

Personally, after hearing from the former, I'm reassured. It makes sense to me.
You can have that opinion for free. In a year or so this will all be water under the
bridge. Either you're in on it already or you're not. You can join in the future and
the price is already clear. Or you can continue on with what you are doing and
buy uber cheap x86 or super sleek OSX.

I however am no longer listening to the babble. Either you get it or you don't.



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cap 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 5:47:20
#312 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2003
Posts: 284
From: Melton Mowbray - Porkpie centre.

@elatour

Did you forget your band aids? Lol.

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persia 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 13:40:32
#313 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@T-J

Time will see whether having XMOS on the motherboard versus USB or Ethernet really makes any difference. I'm inclined to say no, but maybe someone will do something clever. At the very least it serves to draw attention to an otherwise ordinary computer. My USD 99 XMOS board isn't here yet so I can't really say much about XMOS itself..

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:13:55
#314 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

XMOS

This X-Mos thing keeps going on and on, and that is due to the "we wont promise anything" stance Hyperion has adopted.

They don't have enough people to release AmigaOS 5.0 simultaneously with the X1000 so initially it will be 4.1, and the latter at the moment has no support for a series of things. Incredible but true, they were clear about this though, initially they will port 4.1 and then add features, this is something well known for months (so what fantasy world have some people been living in up until now? What is it about this simple fact that isn't clear?).

Even if they plan to conquer the world they won't come out with any promise and that's about it.

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:19:16
#315 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@persia

My thoughts are that if you compare your kit with the on board Xena, and you are serious in learning and using it, yes you might get similar stuff done on USB why not.
That is you though.
That fact won't create a computer platform where everybody knows how to program for multiple connected CPUs. It will only create a single guy tinkering with its kit.
At the show people asked about the on board Xena, and Trevor said it is there for hobbyist usage (something that everybody already knew) nobody asked about Xorro and if a cluster of 2nd generation chips can communicate with CPU at PCI-E speeds.

Not that they would have answered anyway.

But the fact is, having Xena on board + the Xorro possibilities, can make a huge difference compared to a single guy at home with its kit. It can be the genesis of a computer platform that has its ENTIRE developer population, fluent in that particular technology something that will prompt actual creative usage of not just the built in and playful Xena, but the massive multi processing capabilities as well.

Time will tell...

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T-J 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:30:13
#316 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@DAX

I think the PCIe speeds thing is a bit of a red herring, as it were. Xorro only looks like a PCIe slot. XMOS chips connected to it will be communicating to Xena at whatever speed XMOS chips usually communicate with each other at.

The XMP-64 tested how fast this is. If those 'XMOS Links' are part of Xorro, the potential is interesting.

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:34:06
#317 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@elatour Quote:
Why so bloody hostile? (snip)

That wasn't what I intended. I was mildly annoyed that after having spent some time searching a 6 month period for where the info I remembered came from, that you seemed to just dismiss it as being irrelevant.

Quote:
I just don't get all the drama from some of you folks whether red, blue, purple or whatever camp you're in.

To be honest, I could do without the "freakin attitude" from some of the other members here, but it's pretty much lump it or leave it. (opi would no doubt throw a fit if I suggested Amigans.net & other OS-specific sites as a way to avoid some of the attitude problem, so I won't...)

Last edited by ChrisH on 29-Oct-2010 at 02:39 PM.

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I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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winnetcom 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:35:35
#318 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Jun-2004
Posts: 162
From: Burbank, CA. ....... Here every day

I would imagine a few Nemo motherboards will sell to people interested in XMOS technology who really have no interest in the Amiga OS. Maybe more than a few???

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:39:27
#319 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@T-J
Which is already interesting as you say.
Moreover XMP-64 is based on 1st gen chips, so they are only part of the story. Also the Xorro position might suggest direct communication with the CPU without passing through Xena (some sort of PCI-E 8X speed).
But the fact is, nobody "REALLY" knows much about this, only educated guesses, which become LESS educated once you consider nobody has seen Rev2 and Rev3 Nemo motherboards (what if they changed a thing or two Xmos wise? ).

Last edited by DAX on 29-Oct-2010 at 02:43 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 29-Oct-2010 14:43:55
#320 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@winnetcom Quote:
I would imagine a few Nemo motherboards will sell to people interested in XMOS technology who really have no interest in the Amiga OS. Maybe more than a few???

Expect to be eaten alive for making a slightly optimistic comment on the X1000 like that , and you can even predict which members will do it, even though we already know it is probably true going by some comments Trevor has made...

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