@T-J

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The Netherlands has the highest rate of tornado incidence per unit area, at 0.00013 per square kilometre.

Strong tornados happen extremely rarely in the Netherlands. Usually they last no longer than a couple of seconds if they do appear. Noteworthy incidents happen once in about a decade.

@MikeB

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I know the theories, I asked you to apply them for my example

Here's the deal. Just because on existing Theory doesn't have a good explaination for X does not extend the right to hypothesis Y as being the answer. Being open means we take each one and compare the evidence for or against them.

We've been talking about our solar system and how Nibiru can influence it. The observed factors compared gives gravity the predominate force. It explains more accurately than electro/magnetism possibly can. You have yet to provide anything other than conjecture relating to your theory.

Going on is there a problem in Gravity? Sure there's a 'small' one at the quantum level that still needs to be remedied. Electo/magnetic seems to work better there. However, the proble mfor electro/magnetic is large as it doesn't explain the orbits of the planets.

Creation of the solar system -- this is an area that has various hypothesis and perhaps there is a big electro/magnetic influence. However, you can't just say it's EM you must demonstrate it to be EM. Which you haven't done.
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I see the same sort of problem between Creationists and Evolutionary Theory. Evolutionary Theory explains the current state of animals within our planet. Creationists often look for (like solar system creation) the exact method that non-organic material became organic. And that's all well and good. Except Evolutionary Theory has nothing to say about that point because it's not fleshed out. The Creationist goes on to say it's God and provides no proof. Your argument here isn't much different you claim EM explains all in the creation of the solar system and provide no equations or data to support this position. Further you go on to state that such an equation simply can't possibly ever be made. Well now you've created an undeniable hypothsis. As stated it's worse than being wrong as it can't ever possibly be wrong. As you said your working on belief here, and it's clear.
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Spinning the clock forward about 5 Billion years to today -- We have seen and determined the current forces in action. If EM had a purpose 5 Billion years ago it no longer does. Mass, Distance, and acceleration near prefectly describe the current state of the solar system.
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As for Elenin - well you've yet to prove this item exists built in some imaginary material that acts in a way other than mass/distance/acceleration. You have the claim it's causing earthquakes but not tides. It's causing tornados not influcing highly sensitive satellites. And thus YOU have the burden of proof. To date nothing you proposed for Elinin has any validity. Until it does you believe in Woo.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: @Lou [quote]Lou if this was honest you have a serious misunderstanding of position. An increase of bad weather is bad. We all agree on that. Your conjecture is that the bad weather is not caused from forces internal to earth but an object that, at best, farther away than Jupiter. We're open to this idea. Though you've yet to bring any valid evidence to light that your conjecture is true. This is important -- remember conjecture is not conclusive nor is coorelation causation.

I have been alive 40 years so I'm told and living in this country for over 36 of them.
Never in that time have I seen the intensity of earthquakes, flooding and wind storms on a planet-wide basis like has been reported in the past 1.5 years. Statistically the amount may be the same but as was shown with the earthquake stats, the intensity is on a much grander scale.

Something is up. No forget that, I'll put my blinders back on now like every other rocket scientist.

Last edited by Lou on 28-Apr-2011 at 05:20 PM.

One of the good things the Internet can do is provide historical perspective.
Nibiru to destroy the earth in 2003 and mentioned within the article it was supposed to happen in 2000. And of course now it's 2012, unless the calendars are all wrong then it's Oct 2011.

I'd say if they Move the Goal Post enough they'll eventually be right but heck even that's a strech.

Here's something we can agree on. Someday the world will end.

@Lou

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Quote: BrianK wrote: Lou if this was honest you have a serious misunderstanding of position. An increase of bad weather is bad. We all agree on that. Your conjecture is that the bad weather is not caused from forces internal to earth but an object that, at best, farther away than Jupiter. We're open to this idea. Though you've yet to bring any valid evidence to light that your conjecture is true. This is important -- remember conjecture is not conclusive nor is coorelation causation. I have been alive 40 years so I'm told and living in this country for over 36 of them. Never in that time have I seen the intensity of earthquakes, flooding and wind storms on a planet-wide basis like has been reported in the past 1.5 years. Statistically the amount may be the same but as was shown with the earthquake stats, the intensity is on a much grander scale. Something is up. No forget that, I'll put my blinders back on now like every other rocket scientist.

I think there are some serious problems with the Nibiru theory (besides failing at least twice before). We know the moon moves the tide but not the earth. So what effect from Nibiru would move the earth but not the tide? And if this is electro/magnetic why did the satellites that orbit us that all have magnentometers not pickup on such as great disturbance in the force?

Also don't forget there's some other hypothesis of activity of weather right here on our planet that might be correct. Global Warming is one such item that's predicted to bring an increase in torandic activity and stronger weather events.

Earthquakes you say? Evidence is 12,000 years ago in Canada was a big time of melting ice sheets and noteable earthquake events. Global Warming would be one such event that changes the location of mass around the globe. What was once ice is now water. That water runs off into other bodies of water. Perhaps these are causing small pressure changes to the plates and things shift to adjust. A bit more pressure on 1 area and a bit less on another and snap there goes the fault line.

(NOTE: The posts are media items. Not meant to be conclusive on the conjecture but to demonstrate 'magical magnets' aren't the only thing theorized.)

It's through science that we can validate the casual observation 'feel worse in your lifetime' and check if that observation is correct and if that is, or isn't, as significant as one might like to think. ...

How about an observation to add to your events. Just recently in the USA we saw 127 Tornados sweep through the bible belt in a day. Sounds horrid bad to me. Well, if we look up most tornadoes ever we find 1974 w/ 148 within 24 hours. So 127 unusual certainly, unprecidented not really.

@Lou

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Something is up

I agree it does seem this way, the mass animal deaths and genuinely weird observations do point to trouble. Trouble which is not really just global warming. Global warming, albeit genuinely important to take action against is used as a scapegoat for things happening now and for what's to come.

@BrianK

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Nibiru to destroy the earth in 2003 and mentioned within the article it was supposed to happen in 2000.

And how to best cover things up? Create uncertainty by starting false rumours. So if Nibiru actually passes in 2038 start your false paranoid inducing rumours well ahead of this.

It's a fact that human kind still knows too little about even its own solar system. Thus it can well be the Olmec/Mayans, Egyptians, Sumerians/Babylonians and Chinese people from the past do know stuff which we today do not. But if so, I am sure the Vatican most likely does due to the crusades and conquests.

Last edited by MikeB on 28-Apr-2011 at 08:04 PM.

@MikeB

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And how to best cover things up? Create uncertainty by starting false rumours. So if Nibiru actually passes in 2038 start your false paranoid inducing rumours well ahead of this.

Oh, come on, can the paranoid delusions. Nibiru isn't being covered up, because it doesn't exist. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest it does.



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It's a fact that human kind still knows too little about even its own solar system. Thus it can well be the Olmec/Mayans, Egyptians, Sumerians/Babylonians and Chinese people from the past do know stuff which we today do not. But if so, I am sure the Vatican most likely does due to the crusades and conquests.

See, you started so well - science doesn't have all the answers yet.

But just because science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale happens to appeal the most to you.

We've showed you the archaeology and anthropology again and again - the Sumerians had a five-planet model of the Solar System. The Mayans thought the Earth was flat, square, and was created in 3114BC. The Egyptians were in the same boat as the Greeks when it came to astronomy - geocentric and simplistic. The ancient Chinese had a model of a hemispherical cosmos being centred on a dome-shaped Earth. In short, wrong.

And the Vatican? You think the Vatican knows all the secrets? Whatever, add it to the paranoid conspiracy delusions pile. The Vatican publishes all its astronomical observations and operates its current telescopes in partnership with the University of Arizona.

Last edited by T-J on 28-Apr-2011 at 09:14 PM.

@T-J

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T-J wrote: @MikeB science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale happens to appeal the most to you.

Actually, you are wrong.
Historically, that's exactly what happens.

Example 1: God created the earth in 7 days
Example 2: Earth is flat
Example 3: We are alone in the universe
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The Vatican publishes

...and excludes literature from the bible, alot of it. It also excludes alot of what has been confiscated. Basically whatever it/they doesn't like.

Last edited by Lou on 28-Apr-2011 at 09:54 PM.

@Lou

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Quote: T-J wrote: science doesn't know everything doesn't mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairytale happens to appeal the most to you. Actually, you are wrong. Historically, that's exactly what happens. Example 1: God created the earth in 7 days Example 2: Earth is flat Example 3: We are alone in the universe

You are right historically it is the 'God of the Gaps' excuse. People just move the goal post to how they define God. Of course the important and correct point T-J made was that moving the God Goalpost is in no way shape or form a validation of correctness.

@T-J

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See, you started so well

I better stop reading there.

@Lou

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...and excludes literature from the bible, alot of it. It also excludes alot of what has been confiscated. Basically whatever it/they doesn't like.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Pope_has_no_answers_for_Japanese_girl_on_disaster_999.html

"It is a time of darkness"

Do you think he's the fake pope aka antichrist?

@MikeB

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And how to best cover things up? Create uncertainty by starting false rumours. So if Nibiru actually passes in 2038 start your false paranoid inducing rumours well ahead of this

At least we all agree you are pushing false paranoid inducing rumors.

@BrianK

Just combining and polling on conspiracy theories and believes in an open discussion. For example its a fact that many people are speculating who the antichrist is (or was/were).

The Vatican is an extremely powerful (self-enriching) institute. The antichrist according to the bible will: "Appear as “apostles of Christ” but preach a “different Jesus”. There are endless hints in the old bible which seems to refer to the Papel system. According to Islam during the second coming of Jesus, he will join Mehdi to fight against the antichrist (the fake prophet, Jesus will kill him) and his followers and end christianity ("break the cross"). After the death of the Mahdi, Jesus will assume leadership and establish universal peace and justice.

According to believes amongst the current iranian leadership it's now the time of Mahdi (the 12th prophet) and tells its people as well as those in revolting islamic countries to prepare for the Mahdi. Mahdi is believed to start a global war against the zionists and the corrupted west.

So considering the latter even if you don't agree with one word of the above, it's an important topic to discuss.

Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 09:54 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 09:50 AM.

When will Mahdi reveal itself?

His emergence is believed to be accompanied by a rising sun from the west.

Such a thing may happen around a pole-shift type Nibiru event. In any case that would be a very clear worldwide sign.

@MikeB

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Just combining and polling on conspiracy theories and believes in an open discussion. For example its a fact that many people are speculating who the antichrist is (or was/were).

Here's one better. It's a fact that Christianity has a long history of stating doomsday is right around the corner. It started with the Apostles who appointed a replacement for Judas. Why? Well Christ was to return in their lifetime and they needed 13 of them. Each one would lead one of the tribes of Israel.

Again I've been open to all the wild-assed hypothesis thrown out. Each has been validated against obeservational evidence. 'Magnents move planets' in no way cooresponds to the existing planets in their existing orbits.

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So considering the latter even if you don't agree with one word of the above, it's an important topic to discuss.

History is littered with the bodies of believers who thought God was around the corner and therefore felt justified to take their own or another's life.

You can have your belief. It's evidenced as incorrect. But afterall that's what a belief is acceptance w/o validation.

You keep believing. I'll keep evolving. Deal!

@BrianK

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Here's one better. It's a fact that Christianity has a long history of stating doomsday is right around the corner.

Nomatter there are many millions of christians worldwide (and they conquered most of the world). Hence worthy of discussion. Only modern science believes may be discussed without ridicule? Well, that's the sign of an extremist nomatter which believes you have.

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'Magnents move planets' in no way cooresponds to the existing planets in their existing orbits.

In your opinion. In my opinion you underestimate the importance of the Sun being an enormous magnet and the enormous amounts of magnetic material it has spread around our solar system over billions of years. Modern day scientists agree they know very little about the role of magnetism, but they know that it plays a critical role within our universe and indeed our solar system (as pointed out in Cosmic magazine).

Only just a few posts back I posted an article showing that scientists only very recently discovered the significant magnetic properties of light which the scientists until then wrongly regarded as being so weak it could be neglected. Gravity bending light (as Einstein theorised)? How about magnetism actually bending light?

Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 12:32 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 12:28 PM.

@BrianK

Bending of light:



Einsteing theorised this is due to space-time not being linear.

Theory of space-time distortion:



My theory is that it's actually attraction / repulsion what you see in the above-most picture. Of course I understand you will more likely believe Einstein's theory (because that's what you've been taught).

Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 12:48 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 29-Apr-2011 at 12:47 PM.

@MikeB

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Nomatter there are many millions of christians worldwide (and they conquered most of the world). Hence worthy of discussion. Only modern science believes may be discussed without ridicule? Well, that's the sign of an extremist nomatter which believes you have.

This is a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum. Its best illustrated by the example: '50 Million Smokers Can't Be Wrong!'.

Christianity in its various forms has been predicting the end of the world 'soon' for 2000 years. Its credibility on the matter is therefore somewhat stretched. That's not to say its OK to ridicule the whole faith. Just those branches of it that pin the end of the world down to, say, the 21st of May.

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In your opinion. In my opinion you underestimate the importance of the Sun being an enormous magnet and the enormous amounts of magnetic material it has spread around our solar system over billions of years.

No, Mike, you can't have an opinion on that - either the equations accurately describe the motion of the planets, or they do not.

It is observable fact that the gravitational equations predict where the planets, comets and satellites in the solar system are going to be. It is confirmed every time an astronomer does the maths and points the telescope where the maths predicts, and finds what's being looked for.

It is equally observable fact that the magnetic equations do not predict where the planets etc are going to be.

I invite you to buy yourself an amateur astronomer's backyard telescope and try it for yourself. Work out the orbits using Newton or if you want to be really accurate, Einstein, and check those predictions.

Then work out the orbits using whatever means your theory uses, and check those ones.

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Modern day scientists agree they know very little about the role of magnetism, but they know that it plays a critical role within our universe and indeed our solar system (as pointed out in Cosmic magazine).

I re-read the article just now. Its actually suggesting that the role of magnetism in the early universe was more significant than it is now. In no way does that article invalidate the inverse-square relationship of force over distance, though, meaning that it does not suggest that the current universe, or the current solar system is magnetically dominated.


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My theory is that it's actually attraction / repulsion what you see in the above-most picture. Of course I understand you will more likely believe Einstein's theory (because that's what you've been taught)

No. Firstly, we don't 'believe' in Einstein, any more than we 'believe' in the postman. We accept their existence, and we accept that they provide the most likely hypothesis for explaining observed effects.

In the case of Einstein, he provides the best explanation for macro-scale physics. So until a new physics provides us with theories that do a better job of predicting and explaining observed effects, we'll stick with Einstein.

Which brings me round to point two: You haven't given us any equations. So we can't test your theory against Einstein. And if it can't be described mathematically, I find it hard to accept as physics. Perhaps eschatology?

Last edited by T-J on 29-Apr-2011 at 01:31 PM.
Last edited by T-J on 29-Apr-2011 at 01:27 PM.

@T-J

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This is a logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum. Its best illustrated by the example: '50 Million Smokers Can't Be Wrong!'.

It's not about being wrong or healthy. If there are 50 million smokers, it can be discussed without ridicule.

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No, Mike, you can't have an opinion on that - either the equations accurately describe the motion of the planets, or they do not.

As I stated the equations are roughly a good indication, based on observation of objects in our solar system for thousands of years before Newton was born. However the theory behind this equation is absolutely wrong.

So not the formula as used for prediction, but the theory. For example the mass and needed force are altered in line with observation. According to Einstein/Newton the balance of orbit is reached through both objects wanting to hit each other but failing to do so due to momentum.

My theory of motion regard the spiral current created by the magnetic sun which through millions of years allowed the planets to orbit at a certain speed. The current is stronger nearby the sun and grows weaker further away. Not only this is the criteria, also volume/mass/resistance the planet has/endures.

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In the case of Einstein, he provides the best explanation for macro-scale physics

I accept you believe this, but why can't you accept I don't?