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      /  Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
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PosterThread
billt 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 29-Apr-2014 20:19:30
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@KimmoK

Quote:
Those who sit on top of their PA6T stock should take a notice, they can not ask USD1000+ per chip any more.


Well, there's more to it than availability of something else for less. The pa6t is mostly in military stuff. They'd rather build and pay for something known working than redesign and go through whatever military recertifications there are for a new "same" product. The x1000 is just a completely unlikely and weird product all around. And while we can look forward to a new design, and we shouldn't stick to pa6t, the x1000 is not representative of what pa6t actually ended up in since Apple jumped to Intel and then ate PA Semi's engineers.

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 0:21:33
#202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@tlosm

The P5021 uses the e5500 which has no altivec.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 1:44:10
#203 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1230
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@olegil,

The T2 & T4 series are of interest to me. With the right mix of slots would be a good road to go down for Altivec higher end machines.

Chris



Last edited by QuikSanz on 30-Apr-2014 at 01:44 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 4:04:37
#204 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@QuikSanz

Of course everyone knows that Steve Jobs was still worried about the possibility of an Amiga comeback that would kill all of Apple, which is why he bought, then shut down PA Semi and switched to Intel.

Last edited by amigadave on 30-Apr-2014 at 04:06 AM.

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:14:47
#205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@QuikSanz

Actually, the difference between a T4080 and a T2080 is minimal in practice. The T4 has up to 16 extra serdes'es, but since there is a split in 16 for networking and 16 for non-networking while the T2 has 16 useable for anything, a card that only needs up to 2 GbE ports will have 16 ports for PCIe/SATA in both cases.

Performance wise both are now 1.8GHz, but the T4 was targetted a little higher to begin with.

One (2080) vs two (4080/4160) or three (4240) DDR3 controllers is much more a hassle for board layout than it is a benefit to the user, imho.

So having investigated it, I think they bummed out a little with the T4. It should have been better. As it is, a T2 is plenty fine as the high end for our purposes.

T1 makes for an awesome low-end, btw.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:31:25
#206 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@olegil

What about this six core Power chip from LSI?

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/04/28/lsi-shows-new-ppc-based-axxia-axe3500-chip/

PowerPC
®
Processor Compute Complex
–
Up to six PowerPC 476 cores
–
32KB I/ 32KB D L1 cache per core
–
512KB L2 cache per core w/ECC
–
Power ISA ™ version 2.05

Acceleration Engines
–
Packet processing (20Gb/s)
–
Security engine (10Gb/s)
–
RegEx engine (3Gb/s)
–
Traffic manager/scheduler (up to 6
levels of hierarchy)

System Communication
–
Virtual Pipeline technology enables
efficient intra-system communication
for deterministic performance

System Cache / Memory Subsystem
–
Up to 4 MByte of system cache
–
72-bit DDR3

Serial High-Speed Interfaces
–
8x SGMII SerDes based (4-pin)
–
2x 10GbE (XFI based)
–
3x PCI Express® up to 5.0Gb/s per lane
up to 3 ports (x1/x2/x4)
–
IEEE1588v2 support
–
SRIO – up to 3.125Gb/s (x1/x4)
n
Technology
–
28nm process technology

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 30-Apr-2014 at 06:43 AM.

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:42:36
#207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@AmigaBlitter

I would say it falls somewhere in the ballpark of the T1. 6 cores at 1.2GHz wouldn't be a lot faster then 4 cores at 1.4GHz. IO wise it has more pins, but hard to know exactly what can be used at the same time. Wouldn't really bother

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:44:13
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@olegil

It have six core 476 processor, the same processor in the WiiU, if i recall well

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:57:07
#209 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@QuikSanz

You brought up slots, which I sort of neglected to mention in my response.

A T2 or a T4 would both be looking at x4+x4+x4+x2 PCIe (two of which can theoretically be PCIe 3, ie 8Gbps, but only one at a time (eh?)). However, your total PCIe performance will NOT be 32+16+16+8=72Gbps per direction (in case anyone else than me wanted that) .

I have the specific throughput numbers for the T4, but not for the T2, so will refrain from speculating on any difference here. This COULD be the biggest difference between the two families, though.

I would give one x4 to graphics and one to a southbridge. As mentioned before either here or in another discussion, I would put the southbridge on a riser card, and connect it with a wire to the main board. From that you then get something like 3 x1 PCIe slots, for more stuff. Plus an argle number of SATA/USB ports, obviously.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 6:58:02
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@AmigaBlitter

Yes, clocked at 1.2GHz. Vs 1.4 in the T1.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 19:02:59
#211 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1230
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@olegil,

Would be nice if we could get some modern features like Dual graphics slots for crossfire or something but I bet it will be a long time before there is support for it. It would also be nice to have 1 x16 slot for good graphics then range down to a single PCI slot for legacy cards. Like 1x16, 2x8, 1x2 and a PCI.

Chris

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olegil 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 20:33:23
#212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@QuikSanz

If what you have on the SoC is x4 8gbps, x4 5gbps, x4 5gbps and x2 5gbps, trying to create a x16 somehow AIN'T going to give you any more bandwidth.

What more than several PCIe ports of appropriate speed and a driver do you need for crossfire/sli?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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Trewq 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 21:06:48
#213 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2012
Posts: 205
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

The Wii U has a three core G3 derived processor according to hackers,
the processor still has all the instructions found in Gekko, the Nintendo Gamecube CPU.

An program named Devolution allows you to play Gamecube games natively on the Wii U.
Man, its crazy to think that the Gamecube still lives on after thirteen years..

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QuikSanz 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 21:09:36
#214 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1230
From: Harbor Gateway, Gardena, Ca.

@olegil,

Looks like most are of the 1x16 or 2x8 selectable. I don't really need crossfire but to be able to use it is a plus for others. Just one good fast slot for graphics is good for me the rest can drop down in speed. Prolly a good surround card in the 2nd slot and a few extras just in case.

Chris

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Rob 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 30-Apr-2014 21:29:06
#215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6232
From: S.Wales

@Trewq

476fp core is an IBM design too.

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 8-May-2014 11:29:14
#216 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@SoC chip example (the competition)

I think these are one of the most advanced intel SOC chips:
http://ark.intel.com/products/codename/55844/Bay-Trail#@All (there's PCIe4x v2.0 etc.)

(posted for comparing purposes)

UPDATE: some older PowerPC info from morphzone if not on this thread already:
(link)

- Next generation PPC core ("NGC" with multithreading, higher single-thread performance, directory snoop filters, low-latency clustered accelerators)
-some info about LS2045P, LS3400P, T3, T4400 (40 virtual cores)

Originally Freescale was planning also single threaded T5 series, but not heard anything about that for a while.
(original "plan")

UPDATE:
Example of T1 products: http://www.embeddedplanet.com/assets/Uploads/DataSheetEPT1020xS7.pdf

Document page to keep your eye on: (t1040 docs)
In the "Built for speed" document, on page 6, I wonder if they hint doing audio via I2C...

(pdf about virtualizationfor using several OSs at the same time)

(pdf about SIMD Neon and Altivec)
(Altivec programming, performance scaling etc...)

(t1042 devboard below eur800 or so...) (it will be interesting to see the price for T1014 and T1024, how low can they go... But initially T1022 is the most interesting for me & T1042RDB-PA.)

And some openpower stuff:

Tyan open power server board.

While waiting new news...
Old, but interesting: Microprocessor market forecast.
Some y2013 market share analysis etc.
April2013 roadmap (stumbled on it again, so): DWF13_APF_NET_T0795.pdf (interesting comparissons to SandyBridge and MIPS, also some LS2045P and LS3400P info. Also T4400. (+ARM info)

Weekly console sales 8th feb 2014:
PS4 140 308 x64
PS3 59 176 PowerPC
XBOXONE 53 670 x64
WIIU 36 033 PowerPC
XBOX360 29 507 PowerPC
WII 13 064 PowerPC

Per ISA:
PowerPC 137 780 (41,5%)
X64 193 978 (58,5%)

14th June 2014 (rounded numbers, from http://www.vgchartz.com/ )
PS4 99 000 x64
PS3 50 000 PowerPC
XBOXONE 64 500 x64
WIIU 68 500 PowerPC
XBOX360 36 500 PowerPC
WII 5 700 PowerPC

Per ISA:
PowerPC 160 700 (49,5%)
X64 163 500 (50,5%)

Not going to calculate now, but so far PowerPC should lead in sold game console CPUs.
http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/

Some thought: As verisilicon is part of openpower, I hope they will do rev2 of their gaming soc with Power core.

AMD prediction from y2013 to 2016: http://files.linuxgizmos.com/amd-briefing-130909-07.jpg (expects nice $$ growth also for Power Architecture, even is share does not grow)
Freescale share of MPU $$ is "ok". (y2013 info)

UPDATE: place to check for generic PPC lovetalk etc: http://vivapowerpc.tk/world/

Debian linux activity: http://popcon.debian.org/ (ppc crowd as active as arm ?)

(importance of multicore support)
Keeping an eye on servergy... (hopefully they do the USD200 PPC HW)

(collected some CPU performance stuff here (link))

(IBM Power roadmap pdf)

very old stuff... I did not know that there was a ThinkPad with PowerPC processor. (info on OS2 museum)

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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Rose 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 8-May-2014 20:43:08
#217 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 982
From: Unknown

@KimmoK

Quote:
I think these are one of the most advanced intel SOC chips:


Not really. Had eval server with that one last winter and It already beat E3 Xeons on some tests. And new models coming in Q3.

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 1-Oct-2014 11:52:32
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

No new news.

But it seems there is some delays especially with volume shipments of low end T series of chips etc.
Perhaps because of HW bugs that were reported (also) on freescale forums.

There's a processor conference scheduled October 22-23, 2014, perhaps then there will be some news for PowerPC from Freescale...

btw. from game console sales, the weekly HW sales numbers:
PowerPC 125 000. (Wii, WiiU, PS3, xbox360)
AMD 272 000. (PS4, XboxOne)

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Oct-2014 at 11:59 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 1-Oct-2014 12:04:47
#219 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1331
From: CRO

@KimmoK

IMHO, Freescale should think about joining OpenPOWER and licensing the POWER8 core. They could make a lower-power version for the next gen Txxx chips.

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KimmoK 
Re: Next Freescale high performance PPC chip.
Posted on 21-Oct-2014 7:46:06
#220 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@WolfToTheMoon

Freescale PowerPC cores have very short pipelines and they have therefore some advantage in telecom. So I doubt Power8 core offers them nothing special.

(freescale has new core in their plans anyway)


UPDATE:
QorIQ P1022 Processor + Quick Boot + H.264 Software Codec - Demo
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/video_vault/videoSummary.sp?code=FTF11ENA_665_VID
(old, incompatible and obsolete e500 core but still capable, even without GPU, via DIU )

Last edited by KimmoK on 30-Mar-2015 at 09:57 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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