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bison 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 20:09:59
#1301 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1666
From: N-Space

@AP

Quote:
Google is your friend

"Google is stalking you" might be more accurate.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 20:18:14
#1302 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@AP

Quote:
Google is your friend

"Google is stalking you" might be more accurate.


True, but it's just a common phrase for "Don't be lazy, do your own research."

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K-L 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 22:02:49
#1303 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1376
From: Oullins, France

@BigD

Quote:
So the question has to be asked are we just paying an 'Amiga Tax' for the privilege of booting up a modern incarnation of AmigaOS?


Do you include yourself in "we"? Have you bought anything related to AmigaOS 4.1?

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 23-Apr-2020 23:16:59
#1304 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 351
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

outrun1978 wrote:

by purchasing real AmigaOS 4 compatible hardware, you are subsidizing and contributing to the community development costs,Its important to go into this with your eyes wide open.



And not only your eyes!

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 0:14:44
#1305 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@K-L

Like I said to AP why not pretend I'm an old A1200 owner who hasn't even sniffed an Amiga / AmigaOne machine since 1997. Would you still seemingly take the position that this is a small niche community for a small select few who have kept it all going and paid their dues and everyone else can shut up and let the experts wax lyrical about the details of drivers, tech specs and benchmarks? How do you expect this community to self sustain never mind grow if you attack potential customers of the next product and attempt to marginalise them as "not one of us true wizards you filthy muggles"? (Ed. Quote from Harry Potter if anything and not actually a quote from AmigaWorld).

No, I have no intention of buying the A1222 blindly JUST to "keep the party going" I'm afraid. There has been no Next Gen party since the launch of the X1000 in 2010 at Bletchley IMHO. It was a false dawn of expensive hardware and court cases. I'll use my brain, assess my bank account, work out whether it can compliment or replace my Classic machines and most importantly weigh up whether it will offer me the chance to have fun with Amiga specific applications and games. If not then yes you've guessed it; my £400+ is going towards a PS5 and a copy of Dreams! Sorry if that defaults on my rights to comment here in your opinion! No actually I'm not

Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 12:18 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 12:16 AM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 3:44:01
#1306 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1905
From: Australia

@BigD

Quote:
No, I have no intention of buying the A1222 blindly JUST to "keep the party going" I'm afraid.


We dont often see eye to eye, but I wholeheartedly agree with this sentinemt.
It's a guaranteed ticket to mediocrity and teaches hardware manufacturers that the community is a charity who will buy any garbage they produce.
Giving people some worthwhile hardware at a reasonable price is the only way to grow the userbase.
The current plan seems to be to target the ever dwindling number of people already within the community willing to accept junk, "'cos it runs OS4".
Not remotely sustainable and will spell the absolute demise of the platform.

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K-L 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 6:23:17
#1307 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2006
Posts: 1376
From: Oullins, France

@fishy_fis and BigD

Why do you think anyone is waiting for you to "keep the party going"?

Do you really think that what you are going to do or say will change anything regarding this "party"?

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 7:41:02
#1308 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1948
From: Czech Republic

@BigD

I don't think your expectations are high or low; they simply disregard (or are ignorant of) the course of development the Amiga NG world has taken over the years. You insist on running hopelessly outdated, badly written, hardware-banging software on OS4 because it has certain features you consider essential. You require OS4 hardware to be compatible with this old software, and make this compatibility a pre-requisite for your own entry to the NG camp.

You know, it is possible that OS4 hardware does not fit your bill. Nobody is forcing any hardware purchase on you, so don't act like this is the case. If the Tabor sounds like it's not your thing, do not buy it. Perhaps in the end you will never become one of us OS4 users. This is a risk we are perfectly willing to take.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 9:07:49
#1309 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1948
From: Czech Republic

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
They might recover the investment if they sell the source code to the community.

They might, but this will not magically bring OctaMED back. If the "community" (whoever that is in actual programming manpower terms) has enough time, energy and skills to handle undocumented code, get rid of SasC-specific stuff, rewrite the assembler parts, put in an AHI-based mixing and playback routine, rewrite the MIDI code from directly accessing the serial port to using camd.library, and write a modern scalable GUI, I will be the first one to take my hat off.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 9:09:12
#1310 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@Trixie

Quote:
If the Tabor sounds like it's not your thing, do not buy it. Perhaps in the end you will never become one of us OS4 users. This is a risk we are perfectly willing to take.


You need as many people on board as possible. I am dismayed that in 7 years of preparation time the only way I can see that customers get bundled software in the same vein as the Chaos, Magic and Batman Packs is by joining the Early Adaptor scheme.

What case will the complete systems be sold in?
Will there be a bundled Enhancer 2.0 option from AmigaKit?
Is Wings Remastered still available and now complete working with sound on the Tabor?
Should we just wait for the X5000/40 and use our £400+ to buy up cheap stocks to this end while the economy is down?

All good questions I feel but any release would presumably be seen as a mini-miracle at this stage especially in regards to drivers, Covid-19 related logistics issues and component obsolescence requiring a redesign prior to mass production. And that's not even mentioning that one of A-EON's main partners on this Hyperion is in a comatosed state diverting all their resources in a litigation battle with the Amiga IP owner Cloanto!

Maybe the Tabor should come bundled with a documentary regarding this tortured road to release? I watched 'Driven' the other night dramatising John Delorean's battle to get the DMC-12 to market!

(SPOILERS FOR DRIVEN AHEAD)

I'm sure a Tabor documentary would be similar in terms of twists and turns minus the cocaine run to Bolivia hopefully!

Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 09:14 AM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 9:20:19
#1311 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1905
From: Australia

@K-L

Umm,.. you know this is a forum right?
Where people discuss their thoughts and opinions.

How on Earth did you get this freaking weird idea that I care what your opinion of me or my ideas are? News flash son,.... these's fewer things in this world I care less about.

Also NEVER inferred,...not once, not a iota, that anyone is waiting for me to do anything. That boy, is you trying to construct a narrative that you can then be negative towards.

Happy to have discussions with some people, but you're nothing more than pure entertainment to me.

So please, keep it up. It's hilarious.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 24-Apr-2020 at 09:21 AM.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 9:40:13
#1312 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD:

Again: Its not up to us to convince you to buy a Tabor, we are user, not the PR-department of Amigakit/A-EON. As Trixie said: "Perhaps in the end you will never become one of us OS4 users. This is a risk we are perfectly willing to take."

We already answered your specific questions about 4k, running old software etc. And we gave you a realistic view about the whole situation regarding AOS4 and its hardware (so no-one is "attacking" you). If you not accept this facts it's not my problem.

So buy a Tabor or not, go for a PS5 or not, its your decision. I made my choice.

For all the marketing-questions: Ask A-EON or AmigaKit about this, maybe they are interested in your marketing-advices. To discuss this issues with us here will chance nothing.

Last edited by AP on 24-Apr-2020 at 09:53 AM.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 9:52:49
#1313 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@fishy_fis: Yes, this is a discussion-forum and everyone has the right to discuss/express his opinion her. BUT: This is also valid for K-L.

And for the "crap": I don't buy Tabor because it's crap with a boing-ball sticker (and only to keep the party going). I buy it because I WANT to have an AOS4-system again, because I still have fun with it (and Tabor is really affordable hardware). Simple as that.

And of course, If no-one buys this stuff, the party will end sooner than later. But you should not buy this stuff for what may become in the future but just for what it is today.

So It's very simple: If you have fun with Tabor and Co.: Buy it. If it is all crap for you: Don't buy it. Thats the only influence we actually have. Endless talking here will change nothing.

Last edited by AP on 24-Apr-2020 at 10:01 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 10:25:43
#1314 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

Quote:
For all the marketing-questions: Ask A-EON or AmigaKit about this, maybe they are interested in your marketing-advices. To discuss this issues with us here will chance nothing.


If A-EON / Amigakit wanted to clarify things right now they would of. They've got their work cut out fulfilling 100 Early Adopter orders and prior to that filling 100 glossy shoe boxes with parts sourced from around the world now delayed due to the global lockdown.

I guess when you're fire fighting you throw marketing and medium to long term 'growing the ecosystem' strategy out of the window to some extent if you're A-EON / Amigakit? Sad though, as we are (yes WE I'm one of you in the sense I care about the Amiga and would like to see it have a sustainable future) pretty much treading water until Trevor gets fed up as far as I can see!

So no, it's not your job to convince me to buy it but since A-EON isn't currently doing that job (neither is the Apollo Team who operate by drip drip word of mouth and small scale social media it seems) it has become normal for the well researched die hard Amigans to work out what exactly A-EON is attempting to sell them while A-EON forgets that new entrants to the ecosystem will not want to do all the research themselves! All that is heard above the deafening silence from the top is you 'more experienced' AmigaOS users who can only tell us that the killer app is the OS itself! Crazy

Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 10:27 AM.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 10:44:56
#1315 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD: >from the top is you 'more experienced' AmigaOS users who can only tell us that the killer app is the OS itself!

Who is US? The only one with the repeating "Convince me to buy a Tabor or I will buy a PS5!"-comments is YOU. I think we told you enough to make your own assumptions.

If you ask a specific question about AOS4 and AOS4-software, go on. But I will not continue this general "Convince me!"-discussion, its pointless and time consuming.

As I said before: Buy it or not, support it or not. Your choice. Thats the only two choices we have as buyer/user. And as buyer: Ask for updates, confront the seller with things , you don't like etc. Endless debates her will not chance the situation.

Last edited by AP on 24-Apr-2020 at 10:47 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 12:51:34
#1316 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

@AP

I am beyond talking about a simple will I / won't I buy it debate. The problem that I am trying to debate with you is that even if it turns about to be a good machine with a working sound driver etc then it still will not sell beyond people who are already invested in AmigaOS because A-EON ARE NOT TRYING TO MARKET IT ANYONE OUTSIDE OF THE AMIGA SHOWS / DIE HARD PRIOR USERS OF AMIGAOS.

... At least the Apollo Team took the Vampire to a games convention to try and drum up interest from outside the bubble. I personally think it is defeatest not to try and sell / market the Tabor to wider hobbiest market and ex-Amiga users.

Whether I now choose to buy or not buy a Tabor is a null point IMHO because...

A) We have idea when the general release date will be pushed back to.
B) Will the people that want the Tabor (including me) still have a well paid job / the disposable income required to buy the thing?
C) Will Varysis, A-EON, Amigakit and Hyperion all be solvent in this economic climate to bring a mass produced low volume run of say 3,000 to market even by the end of 2021?

So no, I have no interest in further discussing my personal intentions. Never mind the fact that I have no idea really as to what I'd be buying right now to be honest even after 7 years. It is simply the cheapest modern way to experience AmigaOS and that should be enough to "keep the party going"! I understand the mantra, the sentiment the necessity for those already invested to have to believe that it is true. But it's not enough. A cheap board HAS to grow the community from Classic users, ex-Amigans and the wider retro / hobbiest market or it is pointless considering all the effort to bring it to market.

Outstanding concerns (again pointless because the Tabor will now be unlikely to be available before 2021 to anyone other than the Early Adopters IMHO and things can change).

Q. FPU performance?
Ans: Better than expected. Probably.

Q. Blu-Ray 4k playback?
Ans: Unlikely as Blu-Ray drives, USB3 and Bluetooth will have no drivers.

Q. 4k video file playback?
Ans: Definitely possible but probably no HDR support.

Q. Sound driver finished?
Ans: Should be especially if the hardware delay buys the driver developers another year!

Q. Software support?
Ans (If I'm hearing the knowledgeable few correctly): How dare you ask on a public forum! Do your own research. Just because OctaMED is listed on A-EON's website doesn't mean you'll ever be able to buy it!

See, it's not worth debating my concerns because I know that the answer is people should just decide to support AmigaOS or not and do your own research without bothering those that have already jumped in with two feet. We are all individuals and whether the platform lives or dies is above our pay grade so shut up. Is that about right?

Last edited by BigD on 24-Apr-2020 at 12:52 PM.

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Rose 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 13:00:42
#1317 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 714
From: Unknown

@AP

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Rob 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 13:31:50
#1318 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5928
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
.. At least the Apollo Team took the Vampire to a games convention to try and drum up interest from outside the bubble


Derp.

http://blog.a-eon.biz/blog/?m=201908

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 13:35:15
#1319 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@Rose:

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 24-Apr-2020 13:48:34
#1320 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@AP

Whether I now choose to buy or not buy a Tabor is a null point IMHO because...


You name it. So why have this discussion anyway? How should I know specifics about sound driver, FPU-speed etc., when I will get my board at the end of the year (fingers crossed)?

So let´s take a break.

And for the rest: You always forget, that Tabor isn't a whole new system, it's another AOS4-system. So first of all you have to decide if AOS4 is that what you want and fulfils your needs. When using old software like DP5 is your main-concern, than an AOS4-system isn't the right thing for you (but Trixie and others said that before, I have explained you usage of old software in short, just read what we answer).

And yes, you will have to do some research in the internet to answer this specific question for you (how should WE know, what you expect from AOS4?) So again: Don't be lazy and do a litte research. You can't expect seriously that we will give you a presentation about the whole AOS4-history since the first announcement 2000/2001.

For specific questions about AOS4 and its software: Just ask.

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