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bison 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Apr-2020 18:34:31
#1341 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1603
From: N-Space

@ne_one

What I can't figure out: what is Ben's interest in Amiga? He doesn't seem to be a hard-core Amigan, at least not now, and Amiga is no longer a great way to make money, so why is he in this at all?

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OneTimer1 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Apr-2020 18:59:07
#1342 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 597
From: Unknown

Quote:

bison wrote:

What I can't figure out: what is Ben's interest in Amiga?


Some say money laundering, but I can't proof it.


Last edited by OneTimer1 on 26-Apr-2020 at 06:59 PM.

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AP 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Apr-2020 20:05:45
#1343 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 488
From: Vienna/Austria

@OneTimer1: That's the point: "Some say". Especially with such heavy accusation someone should be careful. Too many people judge without knowing all facts and without seeing the whole picture.

Last edited by AP on 26-Apr-2020 at 08:06 PM.

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billt 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Apr-2020 20:15:49
#1344 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3152
From: Maryland, USA

@bison

Quote:
What I can't figure out: what is Ben's interest in Amiga? He doesn't seem to be a hard-core Amigan, at least not now, and Amiga is no longer a great way to make money, so why is he in this at all?


Most people in the world would ask the same question to you, me, all of us. I don't have a logical, business-sensible answer. How many of us do? It's not a logical thing for any of us, is it, even for those rare few who still can make any money with it?

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 27-Apr-2020 0:41:58
#1345 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 261
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@bison

Quote:

bison wrote:
@ne_one

What I can't figure out: what is Ben's interest in Amiga? He doesn't seem to be a hard-core Amigan, at least not now, and Amiga is no longer a great way to make money, so why is he in this at all?


Friend bison, some men are born to crush and tear the dreams of other men, chew them, CHEW THEM, even, and spit them out to mix with the common dirt.

And why, OH WHY you will be asking yourself, they do this? Who knows. Ah, this human nature of ours, source of greatness and misery.

Brilliant souls who engineer artifacts of wonder and die way too early, and hollow shells woven in hatred and evil who bask in lawsuits and accusations.

So, there you have it. Angels and demons, friend bison.
Angels and demons live among us.



MEGA RJ MICAL
PHD MD ESQUIRE ATTORNEY AT LAW

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Hypex 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 27-Apr-2020 15:20:46
#1346 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9935
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Trixie

Quote:
No one is working on OctaMED, and no one will. A-EON has made a costly mistake in buying the almost-quarter-a-century-old piece of software without a proper code review. The effort required to modernize the program is enormous, involving thousands of man-hours A-EON would have to pay for on top of the source code purchase. Considering the number of active Amiga musicians, and the existence of available alternatives (DigiBooster 3, MilkyTracker, and Protrekkr), such an investment does not make any sense whatsoever. Forget OctaMED please.


One problem I see is that it is the Amiga version, which is older than the PC version, which would be more modern. However I don't know much better it would be, since I'm not aware of it taking off like on the Amiga. Also, it would be a lot easier porting the Amiga version than an old PC version, though AmigaOS4 may have caught up with Windows '95 by now.

I've tested those other trackers and I don't think they can compete. When ever I load one up they all like like demo trackers running in a small window with a Topaz 8 size font. If they are serious about the software being useful it should just open up a full size window. Of course those trackers tend to be free.

However, PPaint was brought back to life, which is almost as old. By Andy Broad, who is both a musician and coder, well known in he Amiga scene. I would have voted Andy as the best choice to bring MED back to life, based on his credentials. But he has commented about being a musician and has no interest in trackers. Interpret as you will.

Quote:
They might, but this will not magically bring OctaMED back. If the "community" (whoever that is in actual programming manpower terms) has enough time, energy and skills to handle undocumented code, get rid of SasC-specific stuff, rewrite the assembler parts, put in an AHI-based mixing and playback routine, rewrite the MIDI code from directly accessing the serial port to using camd.library, and write a modern scalable GUI, I will be the first one to take my hat off.


The GUI should already be scalable. Otherwise there was no point in converting the cool looking but rigid V4 GUI into the standard boring OS5 one.

Using AHI should be easy enough as MED supports MaestroPro and AHI can interfaced in the same kind of way. However using AHI for internal mixing would be harder. In any case most music programs would internally mix and not out source.

Having used OctaMED after some years it confused me. It isn't simple to render the module. It must be done by going to some section, changing it to file output, then pressing play.

I would change that to a simple render button. I would also change the mixing routine so things like volume scaling aren't needed. The mix would be internally normalised. Using floats for mixing would be the modern way. Also FX should be updated to be easier. There is no real echo last time I checked and it must be done by volume commands. So FX like that should be updated to be both automatic and easy to use. Of course it is a tracker at heart which was written to work with rigid hardware that had to be programmed directly. It didn't have the unlimited features of a sound studio. A music program for programmers.

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 10:02:58
#1347 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Czech Republic

@Hypex

I don't know why you keep deluding yourself. The amount of work required to modernize OctaMED is not worth the investment and/or effort, considering the number of potential users/buyers. In order to work on something this massive, you need good motivation: either a lot of money, or a big crowd of thankful users. But no one will put in months of work only to please the five people who might actually find some use for the program.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 13:25:15
#1348 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5752
From: Unknown

@AP

I have never met Ben H. so I cannot judge him personally

here he was not very active and mostly too short for any judgements (mostly only for hitting back and then disappearing). Not what I would see as professional behavior.

Finally we should all keep us away from the whole legal battles...

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 13:27:50
#1349 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5752
From: Unknown

@Trixie

amiga software is 20 years old... at least

so from my point of view either you concentrate on improving the 68k software (removing bugs and adding some features) and make retro users happy or you do something modern in todays sense from scratch

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Rob 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 13:44:58
#1350 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5910
From: S.Wales

@OlafS25

You'd need some standout features to temp them to part with their cash instead of downloading the freeware version from Aminet and elsewhere.

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 13:57:24
#1351 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5752
From: Unknown

@Rob

of course you would need to add something to create incentives to buy it

but at least more chances than just have something running native on PPC like PPaint

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 14:35:07
#1352 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Czech Republic

@OlafS25

Quote:
either you concentrate on improving the 68k software (removing bugs and adding some features) and make retro users happy or you do something modern in todays sense from scratch

I agree with you 100%.

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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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bennymee 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 15:25:25
#1353 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2003
Posts: 592
From: Netherlands

@OlafS25

Improving 68K software is the way to go I think, 68K runs on every Amiga (classic, NG, FPGA).
'Just' remove dependancy from the classic chipset and libray's who does not matter anymore today. As a developer you have the largest 'market'.



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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 15:43:51
#1354 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5320
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@Rob

of course you would need to add something to create incentives to buy it

but at least more chances than just have something running native on PPC like PPaint


Is there any noticeable benefit from compiling a native PPC version of PPaint rather than just polishing up the 68k code? Is future proofing / raw speed the only reason to port it?

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 15:49:27
#1355 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5752
From: Unknown

@BigD

ask a-eon not me

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BSzili 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 16:26:48
#1356 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 387
From: Unknown

@bennymee

It took this approach I ported Legacy. I targeted a basic A1200 with 4 MB Fast RAM, but made sure the executable ran on MorphOS and AmigaOS4 as well. I'm not saying it's without compromises, but it's a good way to reach a wide user base.

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 17:13:04
#1357 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Czech Republic

@bennymee

Quote:
Improving 68K software is the way to go I think [...] As a developer you have the largest 'market'.

Yes, but you also typically get a heap of lousy code and 25 years of technological debt.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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duga 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 21:29:06
#1358 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2012
Posts: 187
From: Unknown

@BSzili

Which "Legacy"?

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BSzili 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 21:50:59
#1359 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Nov-2013
Posts: 387
From: Unknown

@duga

Sorry, I should've been more specific. I meant the PDA RPG game:
https://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=43636&forum=9

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amigadave 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 28-Apr-2020 21:52:58
#1360 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1622
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@AP

Quote:

AP wrote:
@OneTimer1: That's the point: "Some say". Especially with such heavy accusation someone should be careful. Too many people judge without knowing all facts and without seeing the whole picture.



Most users can look at the big picture by simply piecing together all of the actions that Ben H. has done over the years, to make a very educated opinion about the person, and his impact, either positive, or negative, upon our niche community. I agree that care should be exercised to verify what "Some say", to make sure it is fact, and not fiction, and I also agree that too many people judge without knowing all the facts, but I don't agree that the whole picture cannot be understood, just because you are not aware of every little detail. The "Big Picture" can be fairly accurately discerned from studying the facts that "ARE AVAILABLE", if you choose to sift through all the rest of the noise to find those facts.

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