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      /  New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
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Yasu 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 20:42:50
#621 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2015
Posts: 224
From: Stockholm, Sweden

Quote:

Anything stated before 2009 Settlement about Hyperion┤s rights to OS4 is probably not valid anymore - especialy if Settlement Agreement states otherwise. You may read said document yourself.


I'm lazy. That's why I ask and read around in forums. More popcorn as well

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My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 21:28:07
#622 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@cdimauro

Quote:
who decided to take the P1022?


Um, answering this is going to make it look like I don't respect him (and I think the guy is extremely knowledgeable and talented), but the recommendation to use Qorlq processors probably came from Paul Gentle (@ Varisys) or one of his employees.

We discussed this type of board before the X1000 was released.
At the time, Paul was of the opinion that a Freescale Qorlq based system would have made better sense than the PA-Semi PA6T cpu used in the X1000.

The X5000 has an e5500 cored Qorlq cpu onboard.
The T10XX cpus are also e5500 cored Qorlq parts, but if the Tabor predates their introduction, then the only other low end choice would have been an e500 core.

And with Paul's background in industrial designs, I doubt the difference between the e500v2 and the e500mc was of much significance.
All recent PPC cores, outside of the e6500, lack AltiVec instructions, which presents even more of a challenge when compiling software than the spe fpu in the P1022 does.
At least for Linux software.

Of course, for Amiga NG OS', the difference in fpu designs is more significant.
And Varisys is a hardware design company, one that only recently has been asked to design Amiga hardware.

So, in summary of a long winded explaination, the P1022 was probably Varisys' recommendation, although it could still have been Trevor's as he had the PA6T in mind before contracting with Varisys for the Nemo design.

Nemo, if anyone remembers, is actually designed to specs that ACK Systems quoted to AInc for a new OS4 board (the higher end of two boards proposed).

The X5000 is the result of Paul's cpu preference, and the input from our communities.

Tabor, well the actual idea behind this may predate both.

Last edited by iggy on 20-Oct-2015 at 09:30 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 21:38:40
#623 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2324
From: Perugia, ITALY

@iggy

Well...
Your argumentation was really ok but...the work committer(AEon) mutst have last word about CPU(like fro nemo board) and so...Why AEon that was an Amiga conpany accepted the P1022 option instead of T10xx option that will be much compatible and powerfull? I really dont se the point here...Only that a less powefull mobo was in minor competition with x5000...but only that and dunno if that can be a valid reason...

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Simone"Tuxedo"Monsignori, Perugia, ITALY.

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Jose 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 21:42:04
#624 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 934
From: Unknown

Are the CPUs that different that redesigning the board is not viable ?

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JosÚ

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mr2 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 21:54:47
#625 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 657
From: Poland

@Tuxedo

Quote:
Why AEon that was an Amiga conpany accepted the P1022 option instead of T10xx option that will be much compatible and powerfull?


Maybe it will spoil all the fun but....
the answer is in a Trevor's speech. 'T' series was not available when they had to decide what CPU to use.

Last edited by mr2 on 20-Oct-2015 at 09:55 PM.

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jaokim 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 21:56:00
#626 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 269
From: Sweden

@iggy

Interesting!

Quote:
I doubt the difference between the e500v2 and the e500mc was of much significance.


In lack of better things to do (or wait, I do have better things to do...) Anyhow, I looked at FreeScale's QoriQ pages, and found this chart:
http://www.freescale.com/products/power-architecture-processors/qoriq-power-architecture-processors:QORIQ-POWER-ARCHITECTURE?cof=0&am=0

From that it seems evident that the cheapest e500mc comes at $71, where the P1022 e500 is at $31.

Looking at the chart, it seems that the P1022 is the only choice in the lower price segment, with GHz in par/slightly above the Sam460.
The T1040 adds only $10 to the price, but perhaps it wasn't available at the time, plus that the cost increases with $10000 for 1000 units. Perhaps it was deemed cheaper to implement the FPU-fix-thingie for OS4, and start with the hardware?

Anyhoe. Need more popcorn.

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Tuxedo 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 22:02:37
#627 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2324
From: Perugia, ITALY

@mr2

welll ok...
However since T series was available during Tabor betatest and was pin compatible I wonder how difficult/expensive was to implement that cpu...and also if its worth the work...

Last edited by Tuxedo on 20-Oct-2015 at 10:03 PM.

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mr2 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 22:09:37
#628 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 657
From: Poland

@Tuxedo

I'm not sure but someone (Olegil?) mentioned already, its not pin compatible...

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 22:52:04
#629 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Hyperion has also licensed the code that was written for OS4. Most if not all of the OS4 developers still own their code, Hyperion just has a license to distribute it. We don't know what conditions these contracts contain - some or all of that code might only be licensed for PPC.


looks like a valid explanation, why ssolie is so worried about that users might upset the guys. maybe its not the obsolete firefox port code that they are keeping hostage ;)

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 22:54:06
#630 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
Time to put this type of statement to rest.
Its meant to be insulting.


as if you were an authority to tell us.. ;P

Quote:
AND, if Cyborg is to be believed, even Hyperion's developers are not completely pleased with the choice of the P1022 for Tabor.


except, he still behaves instinctively like a decent person, if you listen to his corporate presentation at bad bramstedt (yes i have liestened to few talks while on my pc) one can perfectly hear the new speech, he is forced to use, so venom has been injected and finds its way.

Last edited by wawa on 20-Oct-2015 at 11:00 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 20-Oct-2015 at 11:00 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 20-Oct-2015 at 10:59 PM.

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 22:58:37
#631 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@mr2

I don't think it is compatible, there are serious differences between the P10XX and T10XX cpus.

The price argument makes sense, an e500 based cpu with a standard fpu costs more.

And now that A-eon has committed to 1000 Tabor boards, it unlikely that they will release a T10XX based board anytime soon.

I wonder what Bill Buck would think about promoting a community backed T1024 based board?

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 23:03:05
#632 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
as if you were an authority to tell us.. ;P


Nah, only an authority on crazy.
My family has had plenty of people working in that field (AND for that matter, in that particular endeavor, its hard to tell the patients from the caregivers).

But its still insulting, even if they ARE crazy, to remind people of that.

Besides, I don't want to divert us from the discussion at hand (which I feel a little more a home with).

Last edited by iggy on 20-Oct-2015 at 11:03 PM.

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 23:04:01
#633 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@mr2

Quote:
I'm not sure but someone (Olegil?) mentioned already, its not pin compatible...


so, well, except that they really know what they do, if they order some 500-1000 boards today, with the knowledge of handicaps, it looks like they are handing down the mistake further to the users.

Last edited by wawa on 20-Oct-2015 at 11:08 PM.

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 23:08:26
#634 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:
Nah, only an authority on crazy.
My family has had plenty of people working in that field (AND for that matter, in that particular endeavor, its hard to tell the patients from the caregivers).

what field? psychiatry?
given your late trip on spectre, even if he was opposing you (or me for that matter) i think your family may take care of you a bit;)

at least it should prevent you from lecturing others.

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 20-Oct-2015 23:45:04
#635 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
what field? psychiatry? given your late trip on spectre...


Yeah, that WAS inconsiderate, wasn't it?
After all, he had no input on this design.
He's just certifying it under Linux.

But I did offer him an apology.

AND, I still don't think a P1022 based design is such a good idea.

ALSO, personally, I think pretty much ALL of us (in the Amiga community) could do with a little psychiatric support.

After all, such strong opinions over issues that are pretty much dead?
Um, its a bit obsessive.

BTW - A quick postscript, a good friend in the community once told me that he was beginning to think that the Amiga community had a larger share of head cases than the general population.
And I've haven't seen any behavior that wouldn't back that up.

Last edited by iggy on 20-Oct-2015 at 11:47 PM.

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wawa 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:01:28
#636 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@iggy

its not like am questioning your points that much, but the amplitude swinging your moods, remeinds me of something in the so called "field".

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:03:09
#637 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@iggy

obsession? I only say MorphOS

we should better stick at hardware discussions

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:08:44
#638 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@wawa

Oh, I wholly agree with you that I went way overboard with that one and lost my intention in the rhetoric.

Pissing off people is a poor way to try to win them over.

And I do fear that those with overly sensitive natures may disregard me from here out.

But, hey, the berserker wanted out, and since I was sorely disappointed by recent events I was dumb enough to let him rampage...

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iggy 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:11:14
#639 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 1175
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@OlafS25

Quote:
I only say MorphOS


After being told be a developer working under OS4 that he "only worked with REAL Amiga OS" I'm not so sure we own fanaticism.

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OlafS25 
Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon
Posted on 21-Oct-2015 0:11:47
#640 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

@iggy

regarding Paul from Varisys... he has no clue about Amiga and Trevor no clue about hardware so Trevor must trust what Paul or others recommend. Example is the senseless "custom chips" integrated in X1000, no drivers and no developers support. Parts of the hardware are not supported by drivers, to me it seems the hardware developers build something and A-eon and Hyperion tries to support it somehow instead of designing something that fits and can be supported. Normally when creating something OS and hardware devs should work together. To me a little strange.

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