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apsturk
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 14-Oct-2016 23:39:34
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Regular Member  |
Joined: 6-Mar-2015 Posts: 108
From: Oswego, NY USA | | |
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| @Uitgang
This is even better news for sure!!!!
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Hyperionmp
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 14-Oct-2016 23:45:22
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Hyperion  |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 502
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| @Rob
Thanks for stating the facts Rob. They speak for themselves.
Hyperion has over the years always worked with any serious party wishing to license 68K Kickstarts "as is" for their products or the 68K community including Individual Computers and AmigaKit.
So nothing new there.
What is interesting about these new Kickstarts, is the fact that Olaf Barthel (Olsen), the only guy who was actually part of the AmigaOS 68K development team back in the Amiga Technologies days and is still around as part of the AmigaOS 4.x development team, recompiled and reassembled the components to squeeze them back into the limited sizes available at the time fixing certain annoying bugs.
This may sound trivial but this is not the case and I doubt it is something that many people could pull off.
Technical details Olsen can provide and did already provide to a some extent in one of the earlier posts.
Last edited by Hyperionmp on 14-Oct-2016 at 11:48 PM.
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Nicsoft
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 14:34:29
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Joined: 5-Sep-2004 Posts: 237
From: Sweden | | |
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| @Hyperionmp
Any chance for Kickstart ROM:s (hardware that is). For Amiga 1200 etc.
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Hyperionmp
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 15:52:49
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Hyperion  |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 502
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| @Nicsoft
Do you mean like physical ROM chips?
I have no idea if it is possible to still produce these.
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A1200
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 18:29:59
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 5-May-2003 Posts: 3115
From: Westhall, UK | | |
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| @Hyperionmp
Of course it is. There are tons of new EPROM based new kickstart chips on sale every year. Amigakit sell them for example. _________________ Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1 |
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CodeSmith
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 19:26:19
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3045
From: USA | | |
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| @A1200
Yep the software development side of it hasn't changed substantially since the 70s. In fact, since the kickstart images are made to run at a specific address which is the same as the originals, it should be a simple matter of giving the file to the ROM burning software and pushing "go". That's why I was thinking that Jens might be interested. |
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utri007
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 20:52:49
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Super Member  |
Joined: 12-Aug-2003 Posts: 1082
From: United States of Europe | | |
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| Just bought both of them. 17.91€
I used twice that much money to burger king today.
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wawa
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 20:58:12
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Elite Member  |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @utri007
Quote:
I used twice that much money to burger king today. |
another not very wise decission..;) |
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Drewlio77
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 21:27:19
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 2-Jan-2008 Posts: 781
From: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada | | |
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| @utri007
I too purchased both. I did not however eat at Burger King.
Drewlio77 |
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Nicsoft
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 15-Oct-2016 22:08:21
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Joined: 5-Sep-2004 Posts: 237
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utri007
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 16-Oct-2016 0:13:09
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Super Member  |
Joined: 12-Aug-2003 Posts: 1082
From: United States of Europe | | |
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| @Hyperionmp
A600 and A1200 can use 1mb roms without any modification. Kickstart wich has updated scsi.device and fast file system is life saving.
All my A1200 Computers has selfmade 1mb kickstart.
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Mr_DBUG
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 16-Oct-2016 3:30:19
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Joined: 12-Dec-2005 Posts: 180
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gregthecanuck
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 16-Oct-2016 3:55:34
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 30-Dec-2003 Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada | | |
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| The ongoing issue with squeezing code into ROMs - is this due to a 512K limit? Perhaps it is time to draw a line in the sand and increase the required ROM size to 1MB?
I am absolutely no expert on ROM sizes so ended up looking at this helpful chart from Cloanto:
https://www.amigaforever.com/kb/15-127
It appears the 500/600/1200 can support 1MB ROM, but A3000/4000 cannot? Is this true? Maximum 512KB on A3000/4000?
Assuming A3000/4000 could support 1MB I would suggest at some point that is the new minimum ROM size.
Cloanto has done some work creating their "OS3.X" ROMs which is cool, however all they appear to be doing is assembling updated libraries - not doing any actual code updates.
To me this newer 3.1 distribution would only make sense if: - the ROM size is upgraded - the newest debugged libraries are installed - we start setting newer bug fixes and other enhancements (i.e. signs of life)
I have an A3000 that I would like to install an up to date 3.1 distribution on. I would happily buy newer ROMs.
EDIT: Did some more digging. Yes A3000/A4000 have 512MB limit. Looks like need to use a "ROMY" add-on board to enable 1MB ROM on A3000/A4000. Seems pretty simple.
Last edited by gregthecanuck on 16-Oct-2016 at 04:09 AM. Last edited by gregthecanuck on 16-Oct-2016 at 04:08 AM.
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olsen
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 16-Oct-2016 11:16:38
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Joined: 15-Aug-2004 Posts: 774
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| @gregthecanuck
Quote:
gregthecanuck wrote: The ongoing issue with squeezing code into ROMs - is this due to a 512K limit? Perhaps it is time to draw a line in the sand and increase the required ROM size to 1MB? |
The limitations are there, but we haven't exercised all the options yet.
For example, I could conceive a 512K ROM which contains compressed code which is decompressed at system startup time. Decompression would begin after the Exec coldstart code and expansion.library initialization have succeeded, possibly as part of expansion.library itself, because it sets up the AutoConfig RAM.
Maybe this might be a workable solution, but it has its drawbacks, too. The decompression would require some memory and probably not work too well on machines with 1 MByte of RAM and a slow CPU. System startup time, from reset/powerup to Workbench, might be a few seconds longer.
Because the operating system would be decoded into RAM, any RAM defects would affect system stability very early on, preventing the system from even reaching the S:Startup-Sequence stage. Instead of crashing after Workbench has opened and the first few applications have been started, it would crash at a time when it's difficult to diagnose the problem, or even produce debug output.
But all of this is still conjecture and would benefit from some more evaluation and testing, if it were considered a viable solution to the size limit problem.
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Seaquest
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 16-Oct-2016 13:44:28
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Joined: 29-Jul-2004 Posts: 272
From: Norway | | |
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| Bought !
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gregthecanuck
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 17-Oct-2016 9:36:56
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Cult Member  |
Joined: 30-Dec-2003 Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada | | |
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| @olsen
You have some good ideas in there.
Going from my own experience, sometimes it just isn't worth the effort to make things backwards compatible at some point. The time you spend to make the update worth it for a small percentage of clients unable to move on to 1MB takes away from other more useful/needed enhancements and (I'm guessing) the larger majority of current (and future) purchasers.
I expect the largest demand by far going forward will likely come from the new FPGA users (Vampire) and Jens new hardware - both of which can support 1MB ROM images.
For those users stuck on 512KB machines give them a deal on upgrades that make them 1MB compatible. Subsidize them even. It depends on how the cost/benefit works out.
In my case we had a couple of clients on an older version of UNIX that started causing us more and more pain. Eventually we paid them to upgrade their servers - it saved us money on porting, compiler licensing fees, testing time, documentation, etc...
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Amigo1
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 17-Oct-2016 20:25:28
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Super Member  |
Joined: 24-Jun-2004 Posts: 1583
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| @Hyperionmp @olsen
Bought! Thank you for continuing to work on OS4 too which I much enjoy using. I'm looking forward to X5000/040.
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Beans
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 17-Oct-2016 21:44:54
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016 Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA | | |
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| @Amigo1
Quote:
I'm looking forward to X5000/040. |
Same here with money burning a hole in my pocket._________________ Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective" |
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marko
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 18-Oct-2016 2:40:12
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Super Member  |
Joined: 17-Dec-2007 Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU | | |
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| @Beans & Amigo1
Same here  _________________ AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM  C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution... m4rko.com/AMIGA |
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Raffaele
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Re: Hyperion release official AmigaOS WB3.1 & Kickstart 3.1 updates !!! Posted on 18-Oct-2016 6:21:14
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Super Member  |
Joined: 7-Dec-2005 Posts: 1906
From: Naples, Italy | | |
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| @Thread
If this new Workbench + Kickstart release does not introduce support for the main classic FloppyDisk to TF card readers as if they were native, an internal WB TCP-IP Stack, IDE Hard Disks support cleaned from bugs with robust Filesystem updated to support big dimensions disks, and in the end complete support for USB devices, I think I will pass this turn...
_________________ "When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996). |
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