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/  Forum Index
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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 15:45:09
#301 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8623
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

number6 is correct. Amiga Mini was sold for some (brief) time, it even had quite broad coverage in mainstream press.

Quote:
there were no actual products released (which would have been another infringement of the stipulated judgment).


Why? Nothing in the 2009 Settlement Agreement prohibits Amiga.Inc from releasing boring PC with Amiga name on the case runing Linux (or give such license to another company).

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jorit2 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 15:57:16
#302 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2011
Posts: 213
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

Why? Nothing in the 2009 Settlement Agreement prohibits Amiga.Inc from releasing boring PC with Amiga name on the case runing Linux (or give such license to another company).


Be careful Pavlor ...

You'll be flagged as "clown" ... "armchair lawyer" ...

Evert

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 15:58:07
#303 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@pavlor

one of the announcements

#6

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 16:00:36
#304 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 38
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I was not aware this actually went to market, I stand corrected.



_________________
This post reflects the personal opinion of Ben Hermans and not necessarily of Hyperion Entertainment CVBA.

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 16:04:40
#305 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

I agree with an earlier poster that all these Amiga related entities come together and try to work things out and cooperate rather than litigate. This will make it easier for developers, users and suppliers. @HyperionHolding has a point if you guys want to continue to use that brand and try to build a future a cooperation and "AmiFoundation" would be a much better solution and wont leave such a sour taste. The only thing thats gonna happen is if you keep these lawsuits and infighting alive is that eventually everything will crumble like a house of cards and no one will have anything, 2007 - 2009 will be for nothing and all the efforts of Hyperion, A-EON, and AmigaKit will be like trying to resuscitate a 10 year old dead corpse, useless.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 16:15:35
#306 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4279
From: UK

@RobertJDohnert

The problem is that Amiga Inc. had little if nothing to do with the Amiga computer to be honest they just used (read squandered) the brand. Itec and the lawyers holding onto the corpse of Pentti Kouri's toxic estate again just want to hold the brand to milk it for some money to fill the void that Mr Kouri's stupid investments created. The people Cloanto, A-EON, Hyperion and AmigaKit are fighting have zero interest in the Amiga as a going concern and only care about money. These people should be challenged and defeated in the courts if possible and required for the greater good.

As to who has the actual trademark. Does it really matter as long as it's not Itec?

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 16:52:42
#307 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@thread

Just adding one of many links to the Icontain affair, since I mentioned it a few posts ago.

IContain Amiga product reviews

It's pretty much "must" reading for any lawyers visiting this site.

the formerly mentioned Icontain products

#6

Last edited by number6 on 07-Nov-2017 at 05:54 PM.

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 18:29:37
#308 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

@number6

I thought the iContain stuff was just vaporware and a rip off. Do we count those as shipping "product"?

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paolone 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 20:12:03
#309 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 980
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
I overlooked the entire "CUSA" episode, probably because to the best of my knowledge there were no actual products released (which would have been another infringement of the stipulated judgment).


IIRC, you settled an agreement with Amiga Inc outside of the court, and one of the points you agreed about, is that neither Amiga Inc, nor any other company licensed by Amiga Inc, could produce and sell an "Amiga" branded computer with a "similar to AmigaOS" operating system, or, to better word that, any operating system that could "reproduce" or "work similarly" to AmigaOS. Am I right?

Which indeed is what it didn't happen, since Commodore USA actually released the Amiga Mini with Commodore OS, which was Debian-Linux based and neither "similar" nor "working like" AmigaOS. I remember this particular quite well, since Commodore USA long ago contacted me to discuss about bundling a copy of Icaros Desktop with every Amiga Mini. But, far before we could even get serious about this, Barry Altman made a quick step back, since he got upset about a possible legal action from a european company.

Guess which one... :D

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 7-Nov-2017 23:54:11
#310 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 38
From: Unknown

@paolone

I believe this is correct assessment on your part although I should note a few things:

- the settlement process was extremely lengthy and carried on for close to a year.

It was handled by a federal judge magistrate, judge Arnold, from Seattle who was appointed as mediator by the court and this was his last case before his retirement.

He had incredible experience and I am not at all sure that if he would not have been involved, a settlement would have been reached. The amount of time and energy he put into reaching a settlement was incredible.

- Note also that this the settlement was "approved" by the court in the form of a stipulated judgment. This goes beyond your typical settlement contract concluded privately between the parties.


To my knowledge, CUSA did not have the rights to the Commodore trademark. I base this assertion on direct contact with the company that does hold the right to the Commodore trademark.

Shipping generic x86 Linux boxes using the Amiga and Commodore brands is in my view rather cynical as it has strictly speaking nothing to do with AmigaOS.

Ben Hermans


Last edited by HyperionHolding on 10-Nov-2017 at 01:36 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 0:00:45
#311 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4279
From: UK

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
Shipping generic x86 Linux boxes using the Amiga and Commodore brands is in my view rather cynical as it has strictly speaking nothing to do with AmigaOS.


Agreed! But then money makes the world go round so let's pimp some generic hardware with brand names that used to be cherished household names and confuse a few consumers with more money than sense! 'The New American Dream in action'! Rise from nothing obtain a brand name, pretend you're the same company and screw the consumer

Last edited by BigD on 08-Nov-2017 at 12:02 AM.

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HyperionHolding 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 0:09:15
#312 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2017
Posts: 38
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

Due to the fact that a trademark application is embedded in a procedure administered by e.g. the USPTO or the EUIPO with strict deadlines, even when the parties are talking to each other to resolve the conflict, each party has to preserve its rights within the procedure at the same time.

This does not exclude that parties try to reach some form of settlement in parallel.

One issue is however very clear: this whole legal sideshow only started in earnest after Amiga Inc. "allowed" its trademarks to lapse in the US (which does not mean they are no longer valid, just that they are no longer registered).

Apparently this prompted several parties to file for trademark applications in the US and Europe which in turned triggered other actions by other parties etc.

In my experience this type of IP related issues are usually settled although this may take some time.

Ben Hermans

Last edited by HyperionHolding on 10-Nov-2017 at 01:37 AM.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 0:10:33
#313 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
To my knowledge, CUSA did not have the rights to the Commodore trademark. I base this assertion on direct contact with the company that does hold the right to the Commodore trademark.


True.

as explained by Barry Altman on AW

#6

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 0:28:40
#314 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4279
From: UK

@number6

I don't care who they are, they can't update a website for toffee a bit like Amiga Inc

http://www.commodorecorp.com/

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BigD 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 0:33:32
#315 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4279
From: UK

@Thread

I can't wait to see the new and exciting legal services that ITEC will be advertising on www.amiga.com

It might look something like this:




"We love technology and we will crush you for loving our IP too!"
(Suggested company tagline)

Isn't it also weird their name sounds kinda like Eyetech of Alan Redhouse fame! Small crazy world

Last edited by BigD on 08-Nov-2017 at 12:34 AM.

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terminills 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 11:16:28
#316 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1244
From: Unknown

@HyperionHolding

They had a license to use the C= trademarks. I base this on having seen said paperwork. That being said as far as I know they paid approximately $0 towards said agreement ;)

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 8-Nov-2017 21:19:18
#317 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@terminills

Hopefully the link I posted also leaves that impression.
Barry never claimed to own, only to license.

@thread

Minor change from Itec LLC:

another attorney added

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 13:56:30
#318 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
One issue is however very clear: this whole legal sideshow only started in earnest after Amiga Inc. "allowed" its trademarks to lapse in the US (which does not mean they are no longer valid, just that they are no longer registered).


I understand your qualifier "in earnest", but we're both aware that a series of punching and counter punching has to begin somewhere.
I have no inside information as to how anyone feels, so I can only offer links to documents that might point to a different place that things might have started.

Quote:
On Monday, January 02, 2017, a U.S. federal trademark registration was filed for AMIGA by Cloanto Corporation

Any of the links in this thread to uspto, tradmarkia, justia will support the above quote.

the year before when Hyperion files for workbench in Benelux

I might agree with your "in earnest" date, but as to what started this I must at least question and consider the conflict surrounding workbench from last year which occurred prior to this benelux filing.

#6

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 14:39:13
#319 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10091
From: In the village

@HyperionHolding

Quote:
but at the same time the "Amiga" brand needs to be protected or the 2007-2009 would have been largely for nothing.


Does the following from the settlement agreement assure that protection regardless of who is the eventual owner of the marks? (it may seem obvious, but the general public may not know and appreciate some knowledge)

Quote:
In the event the Amiga Parties assign ownership of the Amiga Marks to a third party, including without limitation as result of a transfer by contract or by operation of law, such third party must agree in writing to be bound by the terms and conditions of this Agreement, and to assume the obligations of the Amiga Parties under this Agreement.


#6

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AP 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Nov-2017 11:02:29
#320 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 381
From: Vienna/Austria

Just for info and related to the trademark-situation:

In the the latest issue of Amiga Future (129) I did an interview with Ben Hermans.

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