@kas1e

I know its a joke isnt it? The MorphOS team decide to support the X5000 and they have known for the best part of a year whilst the machine has been on sale that most of the graphics cards to be supplied with this machine are going to be either a Radeon 7750 or a R7 250 and yet when they release this to the public with great fanfare announcing X5000 support as one of the main features, it turns out a good 99% of the current X5000 userbase cannot use it straight out of the box.

You really couldn't make this kind of stuff up!

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@outrun1978

Maybe they have their reassons to not support those cards. But yes, strange..
Sure those ones who want x5k only for morphos will buy necessary card for, and dual boot with os4 didn't taken in account at all, but .. strange anyway :)

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@outrun1978

Quote:

You really couldn't make this kind of stuff up!

So, as someone who is using a commercial graphics driver package, which is being developed and sold by third parties completely independently from the OS vendor, you are complaining that the MorphOS development team does not provide the same functionality built into their OS.

Am I getting this right?

Last edited by ASiegel on 26-Mar-2018 at 10:32 AM.

@kas1e

The dual boot function is less of an issue for me after all it can be booted from the early start up menu and I would have kept MorphOS on a separate SSD, but I mean really this is just absurd and risks alienating any potential users of their platform and any goodwill they had towards them.

A lot of OS4 users are curious about MorphOS and vice versa probably and are above all the mud slinging crap that goes on these forums. Once again the Amiga community are the real losers in this.

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@kas1e
I think it was stated by bigfoot on several occasions that he doesn't want 'gaps' in the supported Radeon range, so he's just working from the older ones towards the newer ones. I think the intention to close the gap to current Radeons is visible, but the newest ones are just not there yet.

The team could have held back the X5000 support on these grounds, but would have that been any better? I don't think so.

Hopefully we don't have to wait 3 years again until the next update.

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@ASiegel

Im not asking for MorphOS to provide Warp 3D functionality nor I am asking them to provide Hardware acceleration as I can see on their website lots of other cards which are supported have neither, but I do expect that if you are going to support a platform you support the main graphics card which are supplied with that machine. To put this into perspective what has occurred here is akin to MorphOS deciding to support a PowerMac G5 machine but then not bother to support the inbuilt graphics card that came with the machine.

Given that every X5000 machine which is being sold is being supplied with a Radeon R7 250 or a Radeon HD 7750, they should be supporting these graphics cards in addition to any other existing cards. Moreover these cards are not recent arrivals either they have been supplied with the machine since day one.

Is this seriously too much to ask and can you understand the anger of many an X5000 owner at the moment who wants to try this out and more importantly provide the development team with revenue through a paid subscription for the product??

Last edited by outrun1978 on 26-Mar-2018 at 11:02 AM.

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@outrun1978

Quote:

Is this seriously too much to ask and can you understand the anger of many an X5000 owner at the moment who wants to try this out

Perhaps you do not mean to but you are sounding very entitled. There is absolutely no justification to be angry at all.

Anybody who is seriously interested in trying out MorphOS can purchase a supported entry level platform for next to nothing. The barrier of entry is extremely low.

On the other hand, those users who are just vaguely interested to maybe install it as a third OS on the X5000 systems they already own will surely not care too much either way.

Quote:

more importantly provide the development team with revenue through a paid subscription for the product??

MorphOS is not being sold via subscription models. For users who registered a copy of MorphOS 2.0, MorphOS 3.10 represents the eighteenth update (!) that they received entirely free of cost.

Last edited by ASiegel on 26-Mar-2018 at 11:11 AM.

@ASiegel

I certainly have no sense of entitlement, nor did i buy my X5000 with the sole interest of using MorphOS, but it would have been a really nice feature and quite a few X5000 owners I can assure you feel exactly the same. Yes entry point levels are low should i choose want to run this on another machine but I neither have the space at home, nor do I want to run it on 2nd hand Apple hardware which quite frankly can conk out at any second.

Its a shame really for many reasons. I was looking forward to writing quite positively about MorphOS via my blog showing off its features, stirring interest and helping to attract new users. Those people will pay a registration fee or whatever you call it for that product so it is money coming in so it would have been a win win for a lot of people. Are the backers behind MorphOS not worried about money that they can afford to miss out on a revenue stream however small??

And I think you will find people do care and are annoyed that there so little co-operation amongst the camps, at times it really does feel like two bald old men fighting over a comb.

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@ASiegel
Quote:

Anybody who is seriously interested in trying out MorphOS can purchase a supported entry level platform for next to nothing. The barrier of entry is extremely low.

Today many of users want just one single HW for everything, without needs to have more towers, notebooks and all that stuff. Not that entry cost is anyhow mean for today amiga freaks: all who seriusly want anything can allow to buy even overpriced hw. Just when everything at one computer, its always good and nice. Like it was with my pegasos2, which i hope to replace with x5k.

Quote:

On other hand, those users who are just vaguely interested to maybe install it as a third OS on the X5000 systems they already own will surely not care too much either way.

I care much to have morphos on x5k, the same as os4 , but swapping gfx cards in expensive hw, remind me somehow that i can have issues soon or later , and everything will burn and die. Those amiga years give me a lesson : the less you open your box, the less probems you will have.

All in all, everyone who own os4 was in hope to try morphos too on x5k, but now he need to buy new card, and thinking twice about needs to tinker with hardware.

I do not know, for me it looks logical that r7-250 have to be supported first, so to not have that problems. Even pure 2d, without anything else. But its amiga world, even those ones who logical than others, have their logic too :)

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@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @outrun1978 Maybe they have their reassons to not support those cards. But yes, strange.. Sure those ones who want x5k only for morphos will buy necessary card for, and dual boot with os4 didn't taken in account at all, but .. strange anyway :)

Look at the supported cards list:

http://morphos.de/hardware

I think it's obvious that they (for whatever reason) want to achieve a complete coverage of GFX drivers, and that they are building the driver support in order from oldest to the newest. It's just a decision they made. And this is simply how far they have got ATM. No doubt they will continue.

I agree that they could have made an exception and supported the 7750 card since they know this is what is being shipped.

OTOH, there has been so many strange twists and turns in the Hyperion/Acube/Aeon GFX card area over the years, where people got one card delivered in their AmigaOne 500 / AmigaOne X1000 system or whatever, only to have to buy another card (which was selected for unclear reasons) to replace it with, and then having to buy a copule of commercial third party driver products for that card as well, so maybe the MorphOS way of doing things is far from being the weirdest at least...

Buying a card from e-bay is no money. Question is whether the X5000 firmware supports booting with two PCI-E graphic cards, as well as MorphOS being able to ignore the unsupported one in the primary slot and use the supported card instead.

When selecting a card, I'd personally choose one that has hardware overlay support, so pick one of those from the linked-to list above. As OS4 users you probably don't know how nice this feature is, but I'm sure you will appreciate it once you have it. This is probably more useful and in more cases than hardware 3D support, but if 3D is wanted too, then go for a X1950 card.

$10-$50 or so on ebay.

@outrun1978

Quote:

outrun1978 wrote: I was looking forward to [...]

Nothing is stopping you! Simply grab a supported card from ebay.

If you really are interested, then this shouldn't be a problem at all...

@outrun1978

Frankly, you do sound entitled. "I was about to promote MOS, do they not want all the revenue I was about to bring in?!" - please :)
Do you remember when A-Eon chose not to support the graphics card they shipped X1000s with?
Whose fault is it that there's no cooperation? A-Eon produces commercial OS4-only driver packages, the MOS team provides them as part of their OS as a free upgrade.

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@TRIPOS

It seems as though on the X5000 an OS will only boot the display if the card in the pciex16 slot is a supported model.

Quote:

Question is whether the X5000 firmware supports booting with two PCI-E graphic cards, as well as MorphOS being able to ignore the unsupported one in the primary slot and use the supported card instead.

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@TRIPOS

Thanks for the helpful advice, it is appreciated

Whilst I agree with Kas1e that its best not to try and keep opening your machine and once stuff is installed it should really stay in there untouched, I am not adverse to putting a 2nd card in my machine and I have been investigating this for Linux purposes too as with Debian and Ubuntu PPC distributions the current set of Radeon 77XX series card do not offer hardware acceleration in Linux which impacts on performance especially when it comes to things like 3D games or video playback. Ultimately I know the Linux support team are working on this so it will come eventually but for the time being and now with MorphOS it is probable that a 2nd card may be the better option.

So ideally I am looking for one which will be compatible with both Linux and MorphOS and yes more importantly not interfere with anything else that is currently plugged into the motherboard!

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@BSzili

Quote:

Do you remember when A-Eon chose not to support the graphics card they shipped X1000s with?

I took a long break from the Amiga scene am afraid so any next generation involvement for me only occurred from 2015 onwards, There appears to be a lot of the soap opera I have missed clearly and personally I prefer not to take side, i want to enjoy my hobby.

Regardless, how do you think things like this look to the outside world and when we want to so desperately attract more people to our platform??

Things really do need to change here or it will drive even more people away.... like i said its like two old and bald men fighting over a comb at times

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@Spectre660

Is this confirmed? You (or anyone else) have tried this?

Well, in case it is so, I don't think it should be too much of a hurdle for the developers to overcome, perhaps even small enough for the mandatory upcoming MorphOS 3.11 bugfix release (usually a month or so after the "feature release").

Scan the bus for a supported card, and select/use the first one that is found, no matter the slot/BusID.


EDIT: Or were you saying that it's an X5000 firmware issue?

Last edited by TRIPOS on 26-Mar-2018 at 11:59 AM.

@outrun1978

Quote:

The MorphOS team decide to support the X5000 and they have known for the best part of a year whilst the machine has been on sale that most of the graphics cards to be supplied with this machine are going to be either a Radeon 7750 or a R7 250 and yet when they release this to the public with great fanfare announcing X5000 support as one of the main features, it turns out a good 99% of the current X5000 userbase cannot use it straight out of the box.

You are being unfair here - you really cannot compare the gfx card driver situation in MorphOS and OS4! The latter only makes headway because A-EON can afford to employ a full-time expert developer to provide the drivers (which are paid for), whereas the MorphOS team works with whatever resources they have (and provide the drivers for free). So complaining that a team of volunteers cannot trump a commercial product is like criticising a hospital clown for not being a circus.

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@TRIPOS

I have done some tests.
Radeon R7-370 + Radeon 9250 PCI combo for MorphOS.

Corenet Platform Cache: 2 MiB enabled
SERDES: bank 2 disabled
MMC: FSL_SDHC: 0
EEPROM: NXID v0
PCIe1: Root Complex, x4 gen2, regs @ 0xfe200000
01:00.0 - 1002:6811 - Display controller
01:00.1 - 1002:aab0 - Multimedia device
PCIe1: Bus 00 - 01
PCIe2: Root Complex, x4 gen2, regs @ 0xfe201000
03:00.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
04:01.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
05:00.0 - 12d8:e111 - Bridge device
06:04.0 - 1002:5960 - Display controller
06:04.1 - 1002:5940 - Display controller
06:05.0 - 1102:0002 - Multimedia device
06:05.1 - 1102:7002 - Input device
04:02.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
04:03.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
08:00.0 - 10ec:8168 - Network controller
04:08.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
09:00.0 - 1b4b:9215 - Mass storage controller
04:10.0 - 111d:8092 - Bridge device
PCIe2: Bus 02 - 0a
PCIe3: disabled
PCIe4: disabled
Looking for VGA
PINS: 0xfc000808
videoboot: Booting PCI video card bus 1, function 0, device 0
Begin BIOS POST
End BIOS POST
Setting VESA Mode
Found required VESA mode
About to set mode 279
About to get mode
Got mode 49431 (0xc117)
OK
XSize = 1024 YSize = 768 Base =0xe0000000
mmio_base = 0x80000000
bgx = 0xad55ad55 fgx = 0x0

A Uboot video_activate option might help if one does not exist already .

MorphOS boot loader version 1.9
Found ISO9660 descriptor
Booting from ISO9660
Trying to load "bootcyrusplus.img" from "ISO9660:"...
Loaded "bootcyrusplus.img" from "ISO9660:", booting...


ABox 1.29 (26.6.2016) 1999-2016 by Ralph Schmidt, Emmanuel Lesueur, Teemu Suikki, Harry Sintonen

P50X0_InitIDE@0: Drive not present
P50X0_InitIDE@1: Drive present
Post-reset SATA delay hack
Post-reset SATA delay hack
P50x0 SATA Driver@1: PIO Mode 4
P50x0 SATA Driver@1: UDMA Mode 5
HandleInterrupt@1: Signature is now 0xeb140101
HandleInterrupt@1: Signature update
HandleInterrupt@1: Phy ready
ide.device@1: ASUS DRW-24B3ST i
ide.device@1: CDRom , found, bootable
ide.device@1: Mount
ide.device@1: Partition DosType 0x43444653 BootPri 127
!!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!
!!! OpenScreen(): Could not find any valid modeids. No graphics card? !!!


Quote:

TRIPOS wrote: @Spectre660 Is this confirmed? You (or anyone else) have tried this? Well, in case it is so, I don't think it should be too much of a hurdle for the developers to overcome, perhaps even small enough for the mandatory upcoming MorphOS 3.11 bugfix release (usually a month or so after the "feature release"). Scan the bus for a supported card, and select/use the first one that is found, no matter the slot/BusID. EDIT: Or were you saying that it's an X5000 firmware issue?

Last edited by Spectre660 on 26-Mar-2018 at 12:14 PM.
Last edited by Spectre660 on 26-Mar-2018 at 12:13 PM.

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@Spectre660

Try with some Radeon R500 or (supported) HD card. They are initialized by MorphOS so should/may work.

Last edited by rzookol on 26-Mar-2018 at 12:43 PM.
Last edited by rzookol on 26-Mar-2018 at 12:33 PM.

@rzookol

No really interested in removing my Radeon R7-370 long term.

My default configuration has a ATI FireMV2260 in a pciex1 slot as a secondary card .
This is an RV620 card.

Using this or the pci 9250 allows booting in AmigaOS4.1 with the secondary card ignored.

Under Linux both primary and secondary cards (using either the MV2260 or 9250) are recognized.


Quote:

rzookol wrote: @Spectre660 Try with some Radeon R500 or (supported) HD card. They are initialized by MorphOS so should work.

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