@bison

If. If not. Well it does make sense after a while.

@OlafS25

I would have suggested OpenOffice but they stuffed my up by removing it.

We had that AmiCygnix word processor but a native build would be better.

I think anyone looking at a Tabor would already have a word processor by now.

@cdimauro

Quote:

If you want to introduce the usual (common) modern features, then you essentially need a new o.s.. Inspired by the Amiga o.s., for sure, but a new o.s..

It always needed to be done. OS4 is a stepping stone. We've been walking on it for too long now.

Quote:

Then I doubt that they have solved the robustness (and protection) issues.

At the time it didn't. It prevented them. But they didn't have time to do what they wanted. So all the good features got displaced by another system. However I don't know how the DOS affected the kernel upstream.

Quote:

I definitely prefer too the AmigaDOS CLI, devices, volumes and assigns concepts, and I'm NOT a big fan of Unix et similia:

LOL. That looks funny. And what's amusing, the foreword I was reading by a Mac guy, who didn't like Unix. But in the years after he wrote it, Apple would abandon Mac OS and embrace Unix as the core of the next Mac OS incarnation. The irony.

I wonder had the Amiga survived, on some other ISA, and years down the track, they dumped AmigaOS in favour of a Unix model with Workbench sitting on top, and destroyed AmigaDOS with something like Linux and bash in place, if Amiga people would have still continued to buy into it? Had it been a similar hardware model with custom hardware.

Since that's what happened to the Mac in a nutshell.

@Amigamia

Except that Amithlon wasn't an AmigaOS at all. It was an AmigaOS emulator with a 68K JIT. It was tied close to the hardware. The speed was from the underlying hardware. And the hybrid x86 executables that ran main code natively and hooked into the emulated OS when it made calls.

@Hypex

Quote:

If. If not. Well it does make sense after a while.

My main complaint with shell syntax is that it requires a certain magical sequence of whitespace to work correctly. I almost think that it's not really parsing code into a tree, but doing line-by-line lexographical analysis and putting information in a list or table, sort of like what tcl does.

And I'm not crazy about the Algol68 syntax either, especially spelling keywords backwards to end a block.

Last edited by bison on 07-Aug-2018 at 03:34 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@Hypex

Quote:

I wonder had the Amiga survived, on some other ISA, and years down the track, they dumped AmigaOS in favour of a Unix model with Workbench sitting on top, and destroyed AmigaDOS with something like Linux and bash in place, if Amiga people would have still continued to buy into it?

I think that would have worked 15 or 20 years ago, but maybe as a group we've become too ossified in the years since. We are deep into "we've always done it this way" territory.

Last edited by bison on 07-Aug-2018 at 08:43 PM.

_________________
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@agami

Quote:

The data for the past ~20 years across desktop, portable, and pocket computing shows that a very small percentage of the purchasing decision is based on hardware. People also rarely derive enjoyment from using an OS, and the reasons for purchasing are highly influenced by applications. With price running a close second.

Indeed - the success stories for the past 40 years, starting with VisiCalc, indicate that there is a strong correlation between a killer app and the purchase of equipment.

But I cannot tell if that correlation is existing with OS. There has not been a "killer OS", where people would go out in droves to purchase a new PC because of its OS.

If, as you indicated, a very small % of the purchasing decision is based on hardware, I would think an even smaller % is based on the OS.

@edponpon

What set the Amiga apart initially was that it was ahead of its time. It had a well designed multitasking OS, ability to provide graphic and sound software that no competitor could, and on top of it is was reasonable affordable. Today, the modern Amiga is neither of it.

As mentioned by others, the key is really the software. As we cannot expect the Amiga to compete, I think the only meaningful niche today is as a retro platform, running old software and adding some new to that table.

Why should I use OS4? If I want something modern, any decent Linux, macOS or Windows box will do it better. The killer apps I look for are on these platforms, not on OS4. If I want to play with something radically different, configuring a suitable X windows manager on Linux might do, otherwise OS3 will do it for me.

@Nonefornow

Quote:

If, as you indicated, a very small % of the purchasing decision is based on hardware, I would think an even smaller % is based on the OS.

Actually, OS scores higher than hardware on the purchasing decision metrics. It's what users, and especially developers, interact with as they use their software. The OS is the gateway and the platform that makes it possible to access a "killer app" and complete tasks.

But for the most part, a highly successful OS would disappear into the background and users would pay it very little attention. Apple's iOS has been able to do this to a large extent. Whether by design or by lack of care from Apple, the OS is for the most part a springboard for launching apps. Each app takes up the entire screen and whilst doing so turns the pocket computer into a series of single mode "appliances". One minute it is an email appliance, the next it is a public transport time-table appliance, then it is a health and fitness monitoring appliance, then it is a video viewing appliance, and so on.

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@Hypex

Quote:

I wonder had the Amiga survived, on some other ISA, and years down the track, they dumped AmigaOS in favour of a Unix model with Workbench sitting on top, and destroyed AmigaDOS with something like Linux and bash in place, if Amiga people would have still continued to buy into it? Had it been a similar hardware model with custom hardware.

If that had happened, I (and very many like me), would be using that version of AOS daily.
Thousands of scientists use only Linux Kernel + bash (and associated libraries, of course).
Workbench on top of that would be a dream.

Sorry ... for my bad English.

@drstrangelove

Well you can do that for years, there are lots of skins for Linux.

https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1204702/
https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1087559/

But that does not make Linux more user friendly.

The fact is, it's not the a skin, users and developers like.
It goes a lot deeper than that, and there is lot we don't like about Linux.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 08-Aug-2018 at 12:58 PM.

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thoughts.....


My time management handicaps have made me unable to have fun with my AmigaOS/Morph machines for a few years.

I nowdays mainly use Windows.
Most often I use Chrome web browser and google docs.
Spotify and youtube are nice extras, but those are better to use on android devices.
(Google docs do not work in any half sane way on Android devices, neither do my kind of games.)
I'll try to set up steam on the windows box + steam link.

I would use Amiga-like operating systems today because I've loved the way they work.
Nothing modern compares to those.

In ideal situation I would use all apps via Amiga-like OS. (I should learn virtual/remote desktops on amigalike devices etc...)

My "Amiga" device must work. It must operate very fast. It should very rarely crash.
(my Amiga devices are not in that shape now)

I do not think any Amiga device could replace my/family Windows or Android needs.
But I still want Amiga to be part of my life. Hopefully I one day learn to manage my time better.

+ I love computing. Computing needs "Amiga", otherwise it is only half as much fun.

Last edited by KimmoK on 08-Aug-2018 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 08-Aug-2018 at 03:08 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@NutsAboutAmiga

Obviously it is not that. Gnome, KDE ... and any other X screen are monsters that eat resources and make a dirty and complex system.

But I would change without hesitation:

kisckstart + amigaDOS + Workbench

by:

kernel linux + bash + Workbench

It would keep the unix directory structures but inside /home/user would go the AmigaOS directory structures ...

Maybe one day I'll do it ...

@drstrangelove

Quote:

It would keep the unix directory structures but inside /home/user would go the AmigaOS directory structures

That's an interesting idea. You would basically have a linux system with Amiga user accounts, I guess.

You need to figure out what workbench is going to run on: X11, a Wayland compositor, or a reimplementation of Intuition.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@drstrangelove

Quote:

kernel linux + bash + Workbench

But isn't this just another way of looking at the Amiga Forever KX Light.?

https://www.amigaforever.com/kxlight/

@Nonefornow

Quote:

But isn't this just another way of looking at the Amiga Forever KX Light.?

Amiga Forever KX Light is one operating system (AmigaOS 3.X) running via emulation (UAE) on top of another operating system (Linux).

My understanding of @drstrangelove's proposal is having Amiga Workbench running on a linux-based system; that is, a single OS without any emulation. To restate this somewhat imprecisely, this would be the "top half" of AmigaOS (Workbench) running on the "bottom half" of linux (kernel and drivers).

I'm not clear on what he wants to use for the windowing system: X11, Wayland, or Intuition. Any of these three could be done, each having different trade-offs. Something that appeals to me is a re-implementation of Intuition running a nested X server so that Amiga and X11 apps (i.e., Linux apps) could be run on the same desktop. I expect the Intuition piece could be a lot of work.

Last edited by bison on 08-Aug-2018 at 06:22 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

It's called AROS hosted and exists already.

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B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@kolla

Quote:

It's called AROS hosted and exists already.

Sort of, but not really. AROS Hosted is one OS (AROS) running on top of another (Linux or Windows). AROS is running as a Linux or Windows process.

22523 pts/0    00:00:00 bash
22560 pts/0    00:00:00 aros
22561 pts/0    00:00:00 AROSBootstrap
22562 pts/0    00:00:00 AROSBootstrap
22567 pts/0    00:00:00 ps

linux -> aros -> Intuition -> Workbench
      -- xorg ->

linux -> xorg -> Intuition -> Workbench

linux -> wayland -> Intuition -> Workbench

linux -> wayland -> xorg -> Intuition -> Workbench

Last edited by bison on 08-Aug-2018 at 09:01 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

...and there is lot we don't like about Linux.

Amen!

_________________
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@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga Quote: ...and there is lot we don't like about Linux. Amen!

I do not care what you guys do not like about Linux. UNIX has won, it is everywhere.

When I left university in the early nineties, I entered a corporate computing world dominated by Microsoft operating systems and they really were not human friendly. I suffered a lot enduring this time. 10 years later (about 15 years ago) I told my ex-boss, UNIX has won, it is everywhere except on Windows. He did not entirely agree at that time.

Today, Windows is shipping with a Linux subsystem. UNIX is truly everywhere. Now the roles are reversed. UNIX is the main thing and time will only make that even more firm.

As Richard Gabriel of Lucid Lisp once said, "Worse is better", it really is true.