@matthey

Quote:

matthey wrote: I'd have to go back and read if this conflicts with any successor clauses in the 2009 agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc.

Well that clause sounds somewhat familiar to the in the Amino/HypaHypa contract and I doubt it would be legally enforceable.

Even more if the company in question is already kinda bankrupt just without filling the proper paperwork (as was clearly the case with Amino and also seems to be with the various version of Ben's papercup B.V.).

-> anything Amiga(tm) being in legal limbo will continue for at least another decade.

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@number6

Great points on damage control and reversing opinion.

The good is that they still seem to sell hardware, even with the many fumbles that seem to be worse as time goes on. So they are persistent and see things through, no one can ever take that away from them. Still should be a fun hobby for them and give a reason to have get togethers. People still are releasing games for it and some have ported some productivity apps over and other fun things.

The downside is that OS is just so abandoned and stale from an OS stand point. Many have left OS4 in my circles that will never come back because of obvious reasons. Most of them ended up running MorphOS and enjoying it with Wayfarer, Iris, PolyOrga, and the like, maybe posting on discord but stay out of the forums these days. The only ones standing with OS4 are real die hards or people that have the compatible hardware and like to tinker with it.

So I would predict as long has the OS4 folks like to travel and enjoy creating new hardware, OS4 will continue on, I don't see any new resurgence as that ship sailed a long time ago or OS development just the same tweaking to make work with new hardware if any comes along. If that makes the OS4 users happy... who am I to argue... Enjoy!

Last edited by Matt3k on 13-Apr-2024 at 08:08 PM.

@all those who mentioned IP prior page of this thread

some info about AmigaOS4.x

#6

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#6 Quote:

@all those who mentioned IP prior page of this thread some info about AmigaOS4.x

Google English translation of the amiga-news.de comment you linked.

https://amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/326295.html Quote:

Trevor Dickinson acquired co-ownership of AmigaOS 4 back in 2019 Jörg (13-Apr-2024, 11:09 p.m.) > (Editor's note: It is unclear to us what rights Dickinson has > actually purchased in August 2019. Hyperion owns for the > Most components of AmigaOS 4 only have a license for distribution > the compiled binaries. The only component we know of > actually owned by Hyperion is the GUI toolkit > “Reaction�, which was acquired in May 2019.) Small, although insignificant as it is very easy to report, correction to this: Hyperion Entertainment VOF, not Hyperion Entertainment CVBA, had a source code license for the AmigaOS 4.x newlib.library(.kmod). All other AmigaOS 4.x parts, as well as the many free contributions that were allowed to be distributed on the AmigaOS 4.x CDs up to 4.1 Update 5 or 6, but no longer with Update 7/"Final Edition" or newer, at least all from me (AmiDVD, diskboot, diskcache, cdfs, jxfs, PartitionWizard, SFS, etc.), but were in fact only binary licenses.

Jörg claims Hyperion only licensed most AmigaOS 4 components from programmers inferring that they are the owners? Hyperion sold 10% AmigaOS 4 ownership that Hyperion doesn't own? Is it legal to sell something you don't own?

The 2009 Amiga Inc v. Hyperion settlement agreement states the following.

https://cases.justia.com/federal/district-courts/washington/wawdce/2:2007cv00631/143245/147/1.pdf Quote:

1 (a) Hyperion acknowledges that the Amiga parties are the owners of the Software, without prejudice to any third parties with rights in said Software. The Amiga Parties acknowledge that Hyperion is the sole owner of AmigaOS 4 (with the exception of the Software), without prejudice to any third parties with rights in said software.

Acknowledgement of Hyperion sole ownership of AmigaOS 4 doesn't guarantee ownership which may reside with third party programmers. Trevor could acquire the assets of Hyperion thinking he is getting AmigaOS 4 and end up with only the GUI toolkit Reaction. Was Hyperion fraudulent in representing that they owned AmigaOS 4 and could turn over source code? The Amiga parties payed Hyperion to develop AmigaOS 4 and expected the source code which they thought they owned to be given to them. Then there is the 2009 Amiga Inc v. Hyperion settlement agreement that looks like it was coerced under financial distress after Pentti Kouri passed. Nobody in their right mind would think this agreement has any advantage for the Amiga parties other than to avoid being sued into oblivion or nuked from orbit as Ben would say. The Amiga parties are forced, likely coerced, to acknowledge ownership of AmigaOS 4, which they thought they owned and payed for, by Hyperion who may not own them and may have previously misrepresented and defrauded them in developing AmigaOS 4. Then there is the exclusive, perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free and transferable rights gifted to Hyperion. The rights are transferable and appear to me to survive bankruptcy as there is no clause if Hyperion is bankrupt and in some cases a successor is mentioned, as if to allow a shell business successor to transfer assets while discarding debt. If the Amiga parties are bankrupt, there is section 2, 17 and 18 with Hyperion receiving more Amiga IP. Nobody in their right mind would sign this agreement unless they did not have the mental capacity to understand it or they were being coerced with the alternative being forced into bankruptcy. I hope the house of cards falls and justice is restored. Ben Hermans should be debarred from ever practicing law, perpetually denied any management position in a business and should get significant jail time for his Sam Bankman-Fried like shenanigans and arrogance. It could take a long time to sort through the mess he caused but at least the authorities may have finally opened their eyes with the courts likely to follow.

@matthey

things like

Reaction.
SFS
NGFS
ExecSG
USB stack
RoadShow
AmigaInput
PartitionWizzard
AmiDVD
Cairo
MiniGL
MediaToolBox
AmigaInput

The OS full of stuff like that.

As well many parts were completely rewritten, original code was in assembly.
when that work has not paid for the contractors and works are first to compensated in a bankruptcy.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2024 at 09:34 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Remember the old days when "IconEdit" and "PrinterPrefs" only had a binary?

#6

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@number6

Well its not the same binary anymore, the old binary is HUNK file, new binaries are ELF files, compiled for different assembly language / processor.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

As well many parts were completely rewritten, original code was in assembly. when that work has not paid for the contractors and works are first to compensated in a bankruptcy.

I'm not so sure. I agree that direct labor has a high priority for debt payment in a bankruptcy but contract labor may reduce the priority back with unsecured debt? I expect a debt payment priority something like the following but I'm not a lawyer and I don't know Belgium law.

1. labor
2. taxes
3. secured debt
4. unsecured debt
5. preferred stock
6. common stock

@matthey

Cloanto nor AmigaKIT can distribute parts without the owner’s consent, and parts we are talking about has different sub license agreements, and software licenses.
And I’m afraid the ownership of parts falls on the contractors.

Some components it can be more than one owner. Considered it has multiple contractors working on the same thing.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2024 at 10:58 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2024 at 10:56 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

Cloanto nor AmigaKIT can distribute parts without the owner’s consent, and parts we are talking about has different sub license agreements, and software licenses. And I’m afraid the ownership of parts falls on the contractors. Some components it can be more than one owner. Considered it has multiple contractors working on the same thing.

I hope Trevor is smart enough not to bid against Amiga Corporation for Hyperion assets or the business as a whole. If Amiga Corporation wins the bid, it may be possible for Amiga Corporation to become the Hyperion successor, the court cases are over and Amiga Corporation has the best chance to develop and distribute AmigaOS 3 and AmigaOS 4 again (some contracts for some AmigaOS modules may terminate with bankruptcy). Trevor winning the bid would be risky as the lawsuits may continue and Amiga Corporation likely has an increased chance in court considering any criminal behavior of Hyperion. Trevor may not be in the clear criminally either, especially if Ben starts cooperating with the authorities in order to get a lighter sentence. Most of the Amiga IP contracts appear to not be in good faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_faith_(law)

We will see what the authorities and courts think. I hope Amiga related parties start cooperating to minimize this Amiga disruption. If parties fight, more lawsuits are possible and the disruption may be longer. I remember how drawn out the C= bankruptcy was and this is more complex in some ways. Put Amiga back together again and stop the legal drain.

@NutsAboutAmiga

AmigaKit has always distributed software with agreement from the owner. In many cases we have purchased the rights for the software or developed our own version from scratch. Nothing will change in future.

This is one reason we have not distributed or commercialised any software that is under dispute such as "OS 3.1.4" and "OS 3.2". Unfortunately there are many "businesses" out there selling pirated games collections, application software, system files pre-installed on hard drives for healthy profit margins. This is not something we would want to build our business on.

With respect to the Enhancer Software, every developer has been paid and either sold the rights to the software (such as Ringhio, TuneNet, MediaToolbox, Warp3D etc) or licenced the software for inclusion (e.g. AmiDVD, SFS, DiskCache etc).

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@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: anything Amiga(tm) being in legal limbo will continue for at least another decade.

The drama around the Amiga heritage is going on, ownership of Amiga brand, AmigaOS4 or AmigaOS3 remains uncertain.

It will end when all the interests an the Amiga has faded away and it will probably be wasted because no one has the right to do something with it.

@OneTimer1

That worry about licensed stuff, is that if code is not shared, that if developer end up in traffic or climbing accident, or get heart attack, or loses interest, the code will stay untouched. developers are pushing 50/60 things often happen in that age.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Apr-2024 at 10:41 PM.

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