@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Reaction is now part of AmigaOS3.2

Reaction was introduced by Haage&Partner for AOS3.x, it is a part of AOS3.5 and seen as a competitor to MUI.
https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/7682153

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 24-Dec-2021 at 04:02 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 24-Dec-2021 at 04:00 PM.

@OneTimer1

Isn’t it just an updated ClassAct that’s more lightweight than MUI?

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 03-Apr-2025 at 04:54 AM.

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@DiscreetFX

The name has been changed to protect the innocent :)

It’s just a bunch of boopsi classes that share prefs settings, and that are barely used by anything.

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@kolla

It's used a bit more in OS4 and A-EON are adding extra classes in Enhancer and their own applications which might eventually get released for 68k in the future.

@Rob

Quote:

It's used a bit more in OS4

I hereby pronounce this the Understatement Of The Year!

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

So there was a time I used to parse output from ShowConfig from scripts to figure out certain system configurations... I longed for LFORMAT option and various %X, %Y and %Z to get particular information out in a formatted way. But it was not to be. Instead a GUI was slapped on it, because... well, those Reaction classes must be used for something, I guess. And now? The darn thing has become a monster, it no longer outputs to stdout and instead opens its own console window (HUH?!), and instead requires "REPORT" (why not simply "TO") and FORMAT TEXT to dump to a file, which then is a little nightmare to parse.

I can no longer use ShowConfig in scripts, and not really at all anymore - it has become useless bloat (and brilliantly inherits the ...ahm... stability issues of boards.library - where is that $STACK now?)

And for what it is worth, just repeating old bug reports of 3.2 from the top of my head...

.key TEST
.bra [
.ket ]
.def TEST "${KickStart}"
echo [TEST]

Last edited by kolla on 29-Dec-2021 at 03:38 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 29-Dec-2021 at 01:14 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 29-Dec-2021 at 01:13 AM.

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@thread

New Update 3 for AmigaOS 3.2 Available for Download

#6

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*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

I wish I could build a company where people worked for me for free!

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

pixie Quote:

I wish I could build a company where people worked for me for free!

I can imagine Ben describing the policy as more honest and developer friendly. Rather than promising to pay developers only to have them sue for non-payment later, Hyperion honestly promises they will not pay developers and saves them the time and cost of suing Hyperion. Free expert lawsuit mitigation is provided to the developers by Ben so he can focus on paying himself to steal the Amiga IP.

Update completed.

Thanks to all involved.


redfox

@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: @number6 I wish I could build a company where people worked for me for free!

Even if the people are willingly volunteering their labour, if one is profiting from the work of others, then it is unethical to not share those profits.

This works when the missions of the volunteering workers and the leader(s) are aligned. But when the mission of the workers is to keep Amiga OS for PPC alive, and the mission of Ben is to keep showing there is value in the Amiga IP so that someone would buy it for $10M, then benefiting from free labour is morally reprehensible.

At this point, in my book, he has become irredeemable.

“For when the one great scorer comes to mark against your name,
He writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game."

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@agami

Quote:

Even if the people are willingly volunteering their labour, if one is profiting from the work of others, then it is unethical to not share those profits.

Which I think it would be obvious, but not for those buying it... For those asking why these new Amiga hardware solutions come with AROS...

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agami Quote:

Even if the people are willingly volunteering their labour, if one is profiting from the work of others, then it is unethical to not share those profits.

The 68k AmigaOS developers realize that sacrifice is required to continue the Amiga and maybe bring it back. The same is true of many other Amiga developers where development is not profitable like the VBCC developers. Their work is a gift to the community that Ben abused and missed seeing the spirit of giving like a psychopath would. Trevor has no problem with using 68k AmigaOS profits from free developer labor to fund PPC AmigaOS development. His utilitarian ethics allow him to support and try to control Ben even though he knows he is immoral. In doing so, he supports Ben's evil acts and brings corruption to the Amiga and his reputation.

agami Quote:

This works when the missions of the volunteering workers and the leader(s) are aligned. But when the mission of the workers is to keep Amiga OS for PPC alive, and the mission of Ben is to keep showing there is value in the Amiga IP so that someone would buy it for $10M, then benefiting from free labour is morally reprehensible.

I am not so sure one of the primary objective of 68k AmigaOS development was "to keep Amiga OS for PPC alive" but maybe a 3rd goal or "excuse" that the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate would tolerate?

goals of the 68k AmigaOS developers
1. release a new standard and unified version of the 68k AmigaOS without bug fixes and patches
2. take advantage of the retro 68k momentum to restart 68k AmigaOS development
3. combining 68k and PPC AmigaOS development has multiple advantages including a cost savings

goals of Ben
1. use 68k AmigaOS profits and free labor of developers to litigate further theft of the Amiga IP
2. Hyperion pays Ben's legal fees while he dilutes Hyperion shareholders
3. Hyperion takes over the Amiga market and Ben controls Hyperion

goals of Trevor
1. 68k AmigaOS development profits can be used for PPC AmigaOS development
2. reduces financial bailouts needed by Hyperion
3. Hyperion survival maintains status quo of sublicensed A-Eon Amiga IP

Did the 68k AmigaOS developers accomplish their goals or was their sacrifice in vain?

agami Quote:

At this point, in my book, he has become irredeemable. “For when the one great scorer comes to mark against your name, He writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game."

No one is "irredeemable" until they die and try to explain their behavior in front of the final judge but neither do I expect Ben to do the right thing. Neither do I expect Trevor, Matthew or Timothy to do the right thing anymore either. The ends justify the means for these ex-Amiga fans as long as they come out on top of a divided Amiga market with no competitive hardware.

pixie Quote:

Which I think it would be obvious, but not for those buying it... For those asking why these new Amiga hardware solutions come with AROS...

Evidence that the 68k Amiga developers sacrificed in vain?

@DiscreetFX

I think it’s a bit slower then MUI, but problem with MUI is that you can’t register it, so you do not get to have the fancy graphics…

Personally I think Reaction and MUI are really outdated… poor UTF8 support or lack thereof. I think it’s time we used full UTF8 everywhere.

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NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

I think it’s a bit slower then MUI, but problem with MUI is that you can’t register it, so you do not get to have the fancy graphics… Personally I think Reaction and MUI are really outdated… poor UTF8 support or lack thereof. I think it’s time we used full UTF8 everywhere.

MUI makes practically all GUI visuals real time gadgets that update and interact with other gadgets as dragged. There is nearly constant redrawing and hit box checking for MUI from mouse click to release where Reaction more commonly reacts on the click and release. MUI also has an ARexx port for every gadget although that likely bloats code more than reduces performance. As I recall, 68k MUI would perform small memory copies constantly without any I/O input. MUI may be better optimized than Reaction but MUI is slower on a 68k Amiga. Slow Reaction may be due to poorly optimized and slow AmigaOS 4. AmigaOS 4 is poorly optimized in general compared to MorphOS. AmigaOS 4 only outperformed MorphOS on 2 out of 23 benchmarks.

Comparison: Performance between AmigaOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.3 on Pegasos II
https://obligement-free-fr.translate.goog/articles/amigaos41_vs_morphos23.php?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr Quote:

Conclusion With 228.5 points for MorphOS against 164 for AmigaOS 4.1, the comparison clearly favors MorphOS. If we take the averages, this represents 9.93/10 for the butterfly system and 7.13/10 for the bouncy ball system. Almost all areas are favorable to MorphOS from a performance point of view (boot, USB, desktop, 3D, 68k emulation, WarpOS and Warp3D emulation, etc.). Contrary to what I initially wrote, AmigaOS 4.1 on Pegasos II is not in beta version. It remains nonetheless that this is the first version of this system for Pegasos II. Will AmigaOS 4.x improve on this hardware? Maybe or maybe not. In the meantime, it remains less optimized than MorphOS. Finally, it's worth noting that the performance of some tests is due more to the way the software was compiled than to the system itself.

Several of the benchmarks were due to very poor Warp3D performance yet no new Warp3D development is allowed. Closed protected code results in few developers that can make changes, few changes, slow or no updates and bugs that are not fixed. What is there to protect?

1. MorphOS is better optimized than AmigaOS 4
2. MorphOS has better software than AmigaOS 4
3. MorphOS is on par for features with AmigaOS 4 except for Warp 3D Nova where the advantage is partially offset by slow AmigaOS 4 system performance

Where does AmigaOS 4 lead?

1. AmigaOS branding and propaganda
2. Warp3D Nova

As far as features, both AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS are outdated, especially for the desktop. The 68k AmigaOS is more outdated but due to sabotage of a 2nd class citizen only useful for emulation even though the retro 68k Amiga is likely at least 95% of the Amiga market. The Amiga IP squatters want to steal the retro 68k AmigaOS and are surviving off it while sabotaging it which makes no sense.

Last edited by matthey on 06-Apr-2025 at 06:14 AM.
Last edited by matthey on 06-Apr-2025 at 06:09 AM.

MUI classes use resources on file, which allows for unlimitied “styles� for just about anything while maintaining relatively low memory footprint, while Reaction puts all “styles" into the class code itself, which limits the number of styles and risk bloating the memory footprint. With MUI, you as a user can decide bling/bloat ratio, with Reaction that ratio stays the same regardless of what “style� you chose, even the least “blingy". Personally I’d be more positive about Reaction if all the “styles� were removed, leaving just plain gadtool look, as that would at least make the overall look more consistent.

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kolla Quote:

MUI classes use resources on file, which allows for unlimitied “styles� for just about anything while maintaining relatively low memory footprint, while Reaction puts all “styles" into the class code itself, which limits the number of styles and risk bloating the memory footprint. With MUI, you as a user can decide bling/bloat ratio, with Reaction that ratio stays the same regardless of what “style� you chose, even the least “blingy". Personally I’d be more positive about Reaction if all the “styles� were removed, leaving just plain gadtool look, as that would at least make the overall look more consistent.

BOOPSI image and gadget files are dynamic libraries for both MUI and Reaction. It should be possible to flush them when no longer in use. After loading, dynamic libraries use memory after lib_OpenCnt reaches zero and until flushed. If memory is used after flushing, then there is bad programming. It is one thing that optimization levels of AmigaOS 4 are so bad to begin with but another when not improved or bugs fixed. Bugs are more important than optimizations but AmigaOS 4 performance is so bad that problems may be bugs. Warp3D is more than twice the FPS in MorphOS than AmigaOS 4 in some benchmarks which should not be possible. The 68k AmigaOS version of Warp3D is in a disaster too. Rather than fix problems, functionality is disabled reducing compatibility (e.g. indirect rendering), software is replaced with new bugs (e.g. Warp3D Nova) and the core of AmigaOS 4 appears to be just as poorly optimized. If the problem was difficulty of optimizing and debugging on PPC and lack of PPC assembler programmers, then MorphOS would have similar issues. Some AmigaOS 4 design choices were likely bad for performance which is difficult to see without disassembling and looking at the code. This was easy to do with the 68k Warp3D but it was easier for the arrogant PPC zealots to drop 68k support (like indirect rendering) rather than fix bugs, optimize and maintain compatibility. Avoid anything difficult, discard problem code, protect source code and use marketing propaganda and stolen Amiga IP to promote crap products seems to be the way of the Hyperion A-EonKit syndicate. They are more unprofessional con men than real developers. False claims like SMP support have been going on for over a decade. The "desktop" AmigaOS has no SMP, lacks 64-bit support, lacks process isolation, lacks memory protection, lacks security, lacks UTF-8 support, etc. This is the sabotaging road block criminal syndicate that cared nothing about the 68k Amiga when they dropped 68k AmigaOS support but now survive off it after stealing more Amiga IP because they failed miserably with PPC AmigaNOne. Only Amiga makes it possible.

@matthey

Quote:

BOOPSI image and gadget files are dynamic libraries for both MUI and Reaction. It should be possible to flush them when no longer in use.

Of course, but that's not really what I speak of.

MUI has the option of using external files (located in MUI:Images) for "styling", while the little Reaction can do in that regard is coded into the class itself. That's all I'm saying.

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@kolla

GUI prefs you style a lot there, for reaction, where you put your files is up to you.

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