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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 6-Jul-2023 22:46:52
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12851
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

Quote:
The project should have been killed the moment they learned about their mistake regarding the P1022 selection.


I must agree with that, time can better be spent on other things like SMP or porting Linux, supporting hardware, or porting games, programs or whatever.

it's like what possible can we do to make the project harder, and make the time slip over deadlines.

At least we are not talking about "ocean gate", no life or death here, at least no one got sacrificed.

Quote:
Funny that. The "A1222" is like the Elbox DRAGON ColdFire for Amiga 68k. Incompatible. Would need "recompilation". Or even porting work.


Yeh, same method I believe was discussed for ColdFire, recompilation at load time, I think most likely hard with HUNK binaries, ELF format is probably easier. And most things are compiled with the same compiler, and there is not a zoo of different languages.

Quote:
Ah, there is just that. "All you need is one developer" to recompile the Amiga SW for this new platform. So who is that developer for OS4 now?


if I understand list, its 20% of games are too slow or crash, 60% works just fine.
I was hoping it be you, LOL… (not going to be me, that’s for sure, I’m too lazy for that).
and don't won’t be get fat sitting front of screen all day.

Not sure it needs to be a good developer, it needs to be someone who can run configure script, edit some files, and type make.

Quote:
NOT EVEN PPC COMPATIBLE!


True, but it has less problems than some other hardware, Sam460, XE, SE, Micro models.
it does better on benchmarks compared to Sam460, A1222 has cache coherence, Sam460 has none cache coherency, so transfer speeds are better on A1222, generally I most say its better hardware.

Incompatibility a side, if someone like to recompile stuff, and make changes, this can be great hardware. there lots of people who like fool around with hardware and software, in this community.

Some ways feels like we are going back old days, where there where 3 versions of the same demos for 68060, 68040 and 68020, to get best performance. We see this library optimized for different 680x0 CPU’s as well. Sometimes their demos with and without FPU support. It can’t be more retro than this

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 11:22 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 11:20 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 11:16 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 10:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 06-Jul-2023 at 10:48 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 6-Jul-2023 23:53:21
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1205
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

The last one (in chronological order) of the three "NG re-implementations" of Amiga OS, the one which ended up being the least Amiga compatible of them all, forever running on such obscure and overpriced HW that it never got any userbase to speak of, the OS that has been floating dead in the water for ages now because of unpaid developers and unclear IP ownership, *THAT* OS now got a new PPC HW that is even more overpriced, AND ACTUALLY NOT EVEN PPC COMPATIBLE AT ALL! OS4 runs exclusively on PPC HW! And EVERYONE can agree today that PPC as such is COMPLETELY DEAD! And EVEN THE PPC guys WARNS OTHERS ABOUT THIS CPU! DO NOT USE IT, they say, USE SOMETHING ELSE! Linux developers dropped off ages ago, compiler developers dropped off also. IT IS DEAD IN THE WATER! PPC GUYS SAY: STAY AWAY! The "A1222+" IS DEADER THAN DEAD!

This is the future for the dead OS4. And BTW, the solution to the "Dead OS4" situation is being "System 54" that is "not" an OS4 replacement (except that IT IS). OS4 always had poor Amiga compatibility, but ON TOP OF THAT people buying the "Enhancer" software always ends up deleting the overwritten OS4 replacement components because "System 54" is NOT EVEN COMPATIBLE TO OS4! People in this very thread say that the OS4 market is very small. Correction: It's virtually non-existent! And now this "A1222+ Computer" (not even Amiga) aims to FURTHER DIVIDE this non-existing "market" into two pieces. There will NEVER be ONE united "OS4 software base" anymore, it will be divided into fractions! And then "System 54" will divide it even further. And there is nothing "Amiga" about any of this! And at €1,000 or more?

You couldn't even imagine this shit by skipping your dinner and eating magic mushrooms all night long instead! This is beyond insane! And yet I see people here saying: Nice Work! Good thing! Where can I send my money!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 0:22:46
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12851
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

From what I read AmigaOS 4.x just about as compatible as MorphOS.
(None of AmigaONE’s and MacMini’s have Amiga chipsets.)
Typical when someone says, x runs on MorphOS, it also work on AmigaOS4.1.

And when tested MorphOS on my dads MacMini I was not too happy seeing 680x0 demos running in a window on MorphOS instead of Fullscreen like they were meant to. Something messed, not as it should.

I won’t disagree it can’t be better, but if things I know about was fixed, if that made it more compatible then MorphOS, I won’t care, as don’t use that OS, so its irrelevant. As if as someone was to say Linux runs windows programs better then windows. None of my AmigaONE is compatible with MorphOS anyway, so don’t blame me.

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number6 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 0:26:05
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11593
From: In the village

@kolla

Quote:
Who/what is “AAA Technology”?


That's the combined forces.

Quote:
AAA Technology
AAA Technology is the Luxembourg based joint venture between, Amedia Computer France, AmigaKit Ltd. and A-EON Technology created to supply computer hardware and software systems to European Union and beyond.


There was also Amiga Technology not so long ago.
http://www.amigatechnology.com/

There's also Amiga Technologies LTD. if that helps:
https://www.bizstats.co.uk/ltd/amiga-technology-ltd-10732120/

As to why so many similar names, I can't say.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 07-Jul-2023 at 03:32 AM.
Last edited by number6 on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:42 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 0:29:22
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12851
From: Norway

@TRIPOS

Quote:
eople buying the "Enhancer" software always ends up deleting the overwritten OS4 replacement components because "System 54" is NOT EVEN COMPATIBLE TO OS4!


Well, yes and no, eventually does get fixed, yes was a bit pissed off, last year. Because they broke my scripts, and can been a big disaster, but they where quick to fix the bugs, in the LIST and DIR commands, right now I know of no issues.

Sure they might add some surprises in the next update, good or bad, I can’t tell.
The Enhancer software does contain some whery nice essentials.

Quote:
there is nothing "Amiga" about any of this!


As it was explained the OS commands, where created initially for 68K AMIGA, to be used on AMIGA install disks, so AEON won’t need to license AmigaOS or parts of it, OS4 users where being used as unwilling beta testers. "Enhancer" was also meant for Amiga1200/500/4000/3000,I don't ask how that’s going.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:38 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:37 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:36 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:35 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 12:33 AM.

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Amiga4000 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 1:45:39
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2006
Posts: 375
From: The Ford Galaxy

Here we go again!

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outlawal2 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 2:39:10
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 16-Apr-2010
Posts: 120
From: Unknown

@Amiga4000

Yep all the same arguments and haters gonna hate.

We all get it, if this isnt for you then GO AWAY rather than flood this thread with the usual crap that has been spewed for a DECADE now.

If you dont like or want an A1222 then go away and leave those of us that are interested in PEACE
PLEASE

Last edited by outlawal2 on 07-Jul-2023 at 02:40 AM.

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agami 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 4:13:35
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 1691
From: Melbourne, Australia

@outlawal2

Quote:
outlawal2 wrote:
@Amiga4000

Yep all the same arguments and haters gonna hate.

We all get it, if this isn't for you then GO AWAY rather than flood this thread with the usual crap that has been spewed for a DECADE now.

If you don't like or want an A1222 then go away and leave those of us that are interested in PEACE
PLEASE

Yes, but you are disenfranchising a large segment of the dwindling Amiga community that 'wanted to like it'.

A non-insignificant number of Amigans were hoping this could be a more cost-digestible on-ramp to AmigaOS 4.x computing.
Then not only does it arrive super late, it is also about twice the price of their notional budgets.

If you're at a party, and a you and few Amigans start talking about your excitement about soon getting a A1222, you can't blame other Amigans for joining in the conversation and sharing their disappointment.

The old "if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen" adage comes to mind, which actually places you haters of haters in the wrong room.

Last edited by agami on 07-Jul-2023 at 04:15 AM.
Last edited by agami on 07-Jul-2023 at 04:14 AM.
Last edited by agami on 07-Jul-2023 at 04:14 AM.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 4:39:19
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5458
From: Australia

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
@Hammer

I touch on this in my guide. Either way it is what it is. People will have to determine if the A1222 is for them or not. I enjoy mine and can recommend it to a certain segment of the Amiga market, but it's not for everyone.

-- eliyahu

Your A1222+ report is pretty good.

P1022's e500v2 CPU selection is a bit strange.



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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 4:53:00
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5458
From: Australia

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:
is it expandable with a better graphic card?

Not sure if I understand your question. The board has a PCI-e x16 connector, and you can use any of the supported graphics cards. Obviously a faster graphics card means better games performance. The issue some of the games has isn't related to your card choice; the few that don't work at the moment is because of bugs that need fixing.

I'm hoping the public listing helps to set expectations and also encourage some developers to fix a few of these problems.

-- eliyahu

From http://www.a1222plus.com/index.php?page=about

A1222 Plus's PEG (PCIe 16X Graphics) slot is wired for PCIe 4X 1.0 which is ~1GB/s (gigabytes) bandwidth.

Sam460ex's PEG slot is also wired for PCIe 4X 1.0.

PS; PEG is just short for "PCI Express Graphics" 16X lanes slot.

Quake 68K can be used to test 68K CPU and FPU emulation, interconnect bandwidth, and basic framebuffer display adapter performance.

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Hammer 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 5:24:03
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5458
From: Australia

@TRIPOS

Quote:
"Recompiled"? Funny that. The "A1222" is like the Elbox DRAGON ColdFire for Amiga 68k. Incompatible. Would need "recompilation". Or even porting work.

OS4, the least Amiga compatible of all three "NG re-implementations", floating downstream belly-up for at least half a decade, now getting "new" hardware in the shape of a PPC computer that isn't even compatible to PPC computers as we know them. At a price of your left kidney.

I mean... WOW! You couldn't even make this shit up!

"Recompiled" is not strange when PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68 with RPi 4B has a non-68K ARM Cortex A72 CPU that can be overclocked to 2.2 GHz via brute force high clock speed approach.

Amiga 68K defacto standard doesn't need Bill McEwen/Amiga Inc/Tao Group Elate's virtual CPU abstraction layer.

€450 to €590 range competes against €570.59 Apollo Standalone V4+ Basic.

A1222Plus would be competing against
1. C= A1200's PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68 with RPi 4B 2GB,
2. C= A1200's IceDrake V4
3. Apollo Standalone V4+ Basic
4. C= A1200's TF1260 ($260) and 68060 Rev5 (~$198).

Euro-originated hardware has a price disadvantage due to higher Eurozone inflation and strong Euro currency.


Last edited by Hammer on 07-Jul-2023 at 05:24 AM.

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klx300r 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 6:01:28
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3839
From: Toronto, Canada

better late than never and hopefully A-Eon can keep the price as low as possible as this board was supposed to be the introductory low end board for OS4.x users

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jPV 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 8:03:28
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Apr-2005
Posts: 823
From: .fi

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@TRIPOS

From what I read AmigaOS 4.x just about as compatible as MorphOS.
(None of AmigaONE’s and MacMini’s have Amiga chipsets.)
Typical when someone says, x runs on MorphOS, it also work on AmigaOS4.1.

There are some differences in compatiblity, some programs seem to work better on OS4 and some on MorphOS, but back in the day the main deal breaker with OS4 was that Magellan2 didn't work on it while it did work on MorphOS :)

And with OS4 you have (at least had) to blacklist JIT emulation for some programs, while on MorphOS you don't have to do it. Trance wins Petunia in this.

MorphOS also runs legacy Amiga PPC software (both WarpOS and PowerUp) out-of-the-box, so it's more compatible in that regard.


Quote:
And when tested MorphOS on my dads MacMini I was not too happy seeing 680x0 demos running in a window on MorphOS instead of Fullscreen like they were meant to. Something messed, not as it should.

This isn't anything that OS would do. OS doesn't make them run in a window or fullscreen, it's purely about decisions made by coder of a demo.

I guess you are refering to demos by Kiero (MaWi, Elude...), which run in a window by default when they detect they're running on MorphOS, but there's a command-line argument to run them in fullscreen too. So, RTFM :)

Last edited by jPV on 07-Jul-2023 at 08:09 AM.

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amigang 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 8:11:20
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2035
From: Cheshire, England

@kolla

Quote:
Who/what is “AAA Technology”?


My guess is it another brexit befit, a lot of uk companies to continue trade in eu as easy before have had to partner up/set up eu based companies to navigate around the stupidity of it all. But least we have our sovereignty (what ever that means, considering we made our self weaker as a nation and now a rule tacker!) hopefully more and more of the uninformed our realising that maybe all the uk problems where not the fault of the eu but our own politics. Which might be the only good thing to come out of this mess!

Last edited by amigang on 07-Jul-2023 at 08:12 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 11:08:14
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1205
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote:

"Recompiled" is not strange when […]


Porting and/or recompiling would not be strange after introducing features like SMP, 64-bit etc. Or migrating to small endian x64. But OS4 PPC users buying a new OS4 computer would probably expect to be able to use the existing stock of OS4 SW, don’t you think? This ”A1222+ Computer” branches off an already small OS4 market into an even smaller fraction, and for no other reason than the ability to use a substandard computer with nothing special at all about it.

Quote:
A1222Plus would be competing against
1. C= A1200's PiStorm32 Lite-Emu68 with RPi 4B 2GB,
2. C= A1200's IceDrake V4
3. Apollo Standalone V4+ Basic
4. C= A1200's TF1260 ($260) and 68060 Rev5 (~$198).


Not at all, those are Amiga (68k) stuff. A completely different market. The ”A1222+ computer would be competing against other OS4 computers. In practice: a very limited stock of SAM 460 LE. That’s about it. And the Sam can run the existing OS4 software base.

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pavlor 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 11:18:41
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9602
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
A completely different market.


Different market? People willing to spend hundreds of EUR/USD to get some "NG Amiga" feeling (be it 68k on steroids, or OS4) are for sure the same market.

A1222's purpose was to offer a cheap hardware for OS4, if they start to sell this board for 1000+ EUR (assuming our informations about price are true), there is no reason to buy this one instead of SAM460. On a side note, I have a third horse in the race. QEMU PPC emulation improves at fast pace, CPU speed on recent hardware is comparable to SAM460/A1222, so dedicated OS4 computer built upon QEMU may be a viable alternative in a not so far future.

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OlafS25 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 14:47:40
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6369
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

I see it similar as Pavlor

it is the same people and both (PPC and the 68k hardware) are hobby

Some already wrote that they are no longer interested in A1222 because they use now 68k hardware and have much more fun.

At a high price there are certainly only few interested, propably some collectors and users with aging AmigaOS hardware who want to replace it

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BigD 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 16:08:09
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7338
From: UK

@OlafS25

The main interst at the time was for:

TOWER57 port - play it on Mac and have done for 5 years now.

X5000 apps but at cheaper price - not that much cheaper now and less bang for your buck!

A chance to use OS4.x! - not so much of a big deal as OS3.x development continues apace!

I want Trevor to make his money back but this seems like an A600 situation where mission creep/time has overtaken necessity! The FPU situation is only mitigated because of losing delays and I guess it'll work like Oxypatcher did on the 060?!

Where's Wing Remastered?

Last edited by BigD on 07-Jul-2023 at 04:09 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 07-Jul-2023 at 04:09 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 17:04:11
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12851
From: Norway

@BigD

Where's Wing Remastered?

Has nothing to do with this.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: A1222 production now underway!
Posted on 7-Jul-2023 17:15:37
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12851
From: Norway

@Hammer

Quote:
Quake 68K can be used to test 68K CPU and FPU emulation


Not same JIT compiler / emulator, it only test Petunia JIT. But take information about some 68K software having issues. It can be it also need special version of Petunia for SPE, it might be its not done.

PowerPC FPU emulator is two different emulators, on load time emulator, and one run time emulator.

AmigaOS4.1 for A1222 has now actually FIVE different emulators:

* 68K interpreter (if JIT is disabled)
* Petunia for 68K to PPC jit.
* FPU load time compiler (whatever).
* Run time FPU emulation.
* EUAE + (tools like RunInUAE etc…)

It has now two black lists:
* Compatibility Prefs (for Petunia).
* And one for FPU load time emulator.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 07-Jul-2023 at 05:16 PM.

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