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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  What if the rumor is true?
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amigadave 
What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 1:56:46
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1731
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

A while ago, a rumor was started that A-Eon/AmigaKit are working on their own OS dubbed "System 54", as a replacement for AmigaOS4, which appears to be at least partially, or totally stalled from development by Hyperion Entertainment. I haven't been keeping up with AmigaOS4 official news, so I may have missed some of the most recent news, but what is the likely path forward, if this rumor is true?

What is most likely to happen, if A-Eon/AmigaKit is able to create a new AmigaOS4 compatible OS, that breaks away from their dependency on the horrid development productivity of Hyperion Entertainment?

Personally, I don't totally understand why A-Eon/AmigaKit haven't already given up on Hyperion and AmigaOS4, and switched to a perfectly good alternative, MorphOS, but I do understand Trevor's fondness for AmigaOS4 and all of the time, money and effort he has put into trying to keep it alive, and indeed, in trying to promote it and help it grow and regain some of its previous users. This is why the rumor is so easy to believe, though I don't know how anyone could get around violating the IP ownership of AmigaOS4 that is held by Hyperion, but maybe if/when Ben Hermans is no longer financially able to defend that IP in court, or if Hyperion should lose the protection of the settlement agreement which first granted them ownership of AmigaOS4 IP, then maybe it will be grabbed by A-Eon/AmigaKit at a more reasonable price than Ben has asked for it in the past?

I have no idea what will happen, and frankly don't much care, as I have sold my X1000, and have no other hardware capable of running AmigaOS4, but A-Eon/AmigaKit must have a plan to continue, if Hyperion halts development of AmigaO4 permanently, and I'm curious to see what some of you think that plan might be (since you are all so adept at speculation and rumors, and it seems that such topics are the only things discussed in these forums anymore).

So, have at it, and have fun flinging your ideas of what the future may hold for AmigaOS4 fans, and A-Eon/AmigaKit followers in particular.

Edit: If this topic has already been discussed, I apologize. I don't visit this site every day, and may have missed many of the (so called) discussions posted here over the past couple years.

And before anyone asks, no I have no ulterior motive, and am only interested because I'd like to see what other members here think the future is going to be like. I have no axe to grind, and I'm just curious, because I can't imagine the future of AmigaOS4 myself, with the limited knowledge I have, and since I'm no longer interested in being a user of that OS. I am still interested in all things that are part of the Amiga legacy, but even that interest is beginning to wane. Anyone interested in buying all or any part of my huge Amiga collection, contact me privately, as I'm willing to consider offers on any of it.

Last edited by amigadave on 30-May-2022 at 02:03 AM.
Last edited by amigadave on 30-May-2022 at 01:59 AM.

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number6 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 2:56:12
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11415
From: In the village

@amigadave

Old news really. You can search the site for "system 54".

example with many more hits on the page

#6

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Neuf 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 4:35:44
#3 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Well Dave, I don't think you can call it a rumour anymore. While it hasn't been officially announced, enough "leaks" have been seen that in mind at least, it is a real thing.

Getting around the legal hurdles is not as difficult as it may seem at first. AROS has done it, Gunnar with APOLLO OS has done and I believe Amigakit has done it.

What is likely to happen if System 54 comes out? I don't know, and I doubt if anyone else does. These types of things often lead to unintended consequences.

I believe Amigakit has had a plan for many years to do this. You could see from the time Enhancer was first launched that Amigakit had every intention to launch a new OS. You do have to know how a modern OS is structured to see what was happening behind the scenes. Tonight, I'm not going into any technical details, in part, because I am not party to some of the more important ones.

I am hoping for a close collaboration with the MOROHOS team, but we'll have to see what happens

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klx300r 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 4:42:58
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3750
From: Toronto, Canada



Quote:

Neuf wrote:
@amigadave
..,
I am hoping for a close collaboration with the MOROHOS team, but we'll have to see what happens


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Rob 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 6:30:45
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6166
From: S.Wales

@amigadave

Trixie 's post on the matter holds more water with me than some rando accounts that claim to know better.

Link.

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OlafS25 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 9:26:06
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6082
From: Unknown

@Rob

that is currently true. What "might" be or what the longterm plans are, who knows

@amigadave

If you ask for "collaboration" with MorphOS team you seem to underestimate the dedication Trevor seems to have to OS4. Financing MorphOS only based hardware seems not to interest him. At least that is my impression. His newest project was/is Tabor and there is no MorphOS for it planned as I understand it and that he additionally finance a complete MorphOS port is hard for me to believe.

And "joining forces", such threads pop up every year. It did not happen and will not happen. And small hint... not only because of the OS4 camp in my view. And that Trevor (as I wrote) drops OS4 in favor of MorphOS is not what I assume.

MorphOS team also is very reluctant to open something. I only say "MUI" here.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-May-2022 at 09:46 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-May-2022 at 09:44 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 30-May-2022 at 09:43 AM.

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cdimauro 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 30-May-2022 20:59:39
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2482
From: Germany

@OlafS25: Trevor has given an X5000 to the MorphOS team to port MorphOS. FYI.

For Tabor I personally believe that the MorphOS team wasn't interested to do a port, probably because of the non-standard FPU (and the required effort to emulate it, plus fork the MorphOS applications to have dedicated binaries for it).

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redfox 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 2:08:28
#8 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Canada

@amigadave

I don't know what is being planned by Hyperion or A-EON/Amigakit.

I'm just a guy who bought a MicroAmigaOne with OS4 way back in 2004.

Trixie wrote:
Quote:
At the present time System54 is just an OS4 distribution with add-ons, and in fact, very little has been replaced of OS4. System54 won't make a toot without the OS4 installation CD.


But, I have to wonder why A-EON team are replacing so many OS4 system commands with their own clones. Matthew (Amigakit) says they need to create their own stuff to stay away from code copyrighted by Hyperion.

If the idea is to simply use System54 as the next Enhancer Software package, they might want to use their own commands to install the System54 code into an existing OS4 system, replacing the relevant parts with their own code. If they use their own commands they are not infringing any existing copyrights.

If, on the other hand, if they are distributing a bootable "live-CD", then they would have to include some sort of bootable OS on that CD. It does not have to be OS4 as long as it has enough smarts to complete the installation process.




redfox
MicroAmigaOne
AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Update 2 + Enhancer Software



Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:37 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:35 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:11 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:11 AM.

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redfox 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 2:33:52
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Canada

@amigadave

If the rumor is actually true, and A-Eon/AmigaKit are actually working on their own OS, as a replacement for AmigaOS4, then I would actually welcome such a move. It might actually be a way to move A1222 hardware forward.

If it was made available to MicroA1 users, I would definately give it a try.


My question is ... if Hyperion owns ReAction, what would System54 use instead?



redfox



Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:44 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 31-May-2022 at 02:42 AM.

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redfox 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 3:04:13
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1935
From: Canada

Although I am currently primarily an OS4 user, I also have two AROS distributions that I use on an old laptop (Icaros and AspireOS), and I am planning to purchase a system for MorphOS.



redfox

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QBit 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 5:49:30
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 201
From: Unknown

@all
I am a silly Windows User. If you want my money you must thrill me. I worked 6 Weeks in a Aluminium Car Parts Production Factory to buy an Amiga 500 with 1084 when I was 16. Now if you want to convince me again to work up my Ass to buy a Computer it MUST be much better than an 2000 Mac or 2000 Windows Machine.

The Mass Market wont buy a Computer where you nearly can`t do anything with it. Maybe I am Mad but I only spend money on things were I am thrilled. I am doing to Raspberry Pis what I was doing to PCs 2004. Waiting till the Offer is good enough so that I am willing to spend money.
I stay with 68k, x86 and ARM. If I get a PPC Computer for 100 I will think about it.

I supported MorphOS with 2 Licences I bought. But somehow my heart beats with the Anarchist Research Operating System! I donated to AROS Money maybe I could have done more but if you want young blood into the User Base especially kids or teenagers you must convince THEM Mummy buy me a Tabor 1222! But Kids of today say: Mummy buy me a Cell Phone and you can be happy if you are socially weak if they don`t say it must be High End!

I know that it is hard but that`s it!

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cdimauro 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 5:53:53
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 2482
From: Germany

@redfox: replacing all OS4 components isn't possible. At least by rewriting everything from scratch.

Hyperion has still some key components, like the graphics.library to give the second most important one (after Exec), and AmigaKit shouldn't have so many resources to completely rewrite it.

This to give just a single example: but there are many other components which are important, big, and difficult to completely re-implement from scratch...

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 5:56:33
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 845
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

Quote:

QBit wrote:

I am a silly Windows User. If you want my money you must thrill me. I worked 6 Weeks in a Aluminium Car Parts Production Factory to buy an Amiga 500 with 1084 when I was 16. Now if you want to convince me again to work up my Ass to buy a Computer it MUST be much better than an 2000 Mac or 2000 Windows Machine.


This... is astonishingly well put, given your usual level of insanity, friend QBit.

Quote:

you must convince THEM Mummy buy me a Tabor 1222! But Kids of today say: Mummy buy me a Cell Phone


This... given your usual level of insanity, I wonder if you're referring to the motherly kind of mummy, or the egyptian, cursed kind.








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QBit 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 8:25:22
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jun-2018
Posts: 201
From: Unknown

@MEGA_RJ_MICAL

I said.. Mum, Dad.. borrow me 2000 Deutschmarks so that I can buy an Amiga 500 with Color Monitor and I promise I will work my Ass off to pay it back,,,, no Computer of today would ever make me be so Devote to my Parents again if I now was 15. When the Amiga came out it was Hardware with an Embargo for the Eastern Block. Hardware which underlies these Restrictions is today not even sold to normal Mortals like me anymore.. although I have my personal Hobby.. Supporting e.g. Astronomy and Medicine with sheer CPU and AI Power with BOINC or Folding@home. And even if I had the money for special real High End AI Monster Computers I wouldn`t even get them or be able to afford them because they are really too expensive,

Maybe such a Machine with good GFX Card and fully Driver support(including Mainboard Drivers) running AROS would satisfy me with the Dream running BOINC or Folding@home under Antichrist Research Operating System!


It should only have the same Power with much less Electricity Consumption!

Hail Satan and Antichrist Technologies ! Hardcore Vibes, that`s (it), I run things
P.S. The Computer (and Music) World of today would be nothing without the Migration of real Amiga and Atari Cracks to the PC

IBM won, CBM lost, that`s it!

Since the Matrix Movie I thought what if there were Computers compatible to ASCII but ASCII Computers not compatible with Russian or Chinese or Japanese Computers!

Maybe these kind of Cyber Wars could become probable!

WTF will happen if there will be future WARS of different Computer Standards!
I am insane I am allowed to say that: Or even ASCII compatible Alien Species Computers!

The free world Military needs some kind of Secret Computer Standard an encrypted ASCII Compatible Standard E+ASCII Encrypted charset plus ASCII Standard for the Military!

Hail Satan. Antichrist Technologies or it all began with the Imaginationsauffrischungsorgan!

Last but not least a Joke: During a recent password audit, it was found that a blonde was using the following password: "MickeyMinniePlutoHueyLouieDeweyDonaldGoofySacramento". When asked why she had such a long password, she said she was told that it had to be at least 8 characters long and include at least one capital.

Last edited by QBit on 31-May-2022 at 10:15 AM.
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Last edited by QBit on 31-May-2022 at 08:31 AM.

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Neuf 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 17:59:02
#15 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@redfox

I have read your posts about V54. Unfortunately, I can't answer your questions directly.I have been checking with some European sources and they say there is no connection at all, between A1222 and V54. Trevor is determined to run OS 4.1 on Tabor and that is the end of that story. V54 will have all new code. Reaction will be replaced by something that is nowNDA. The problem is that because V54 is ultimately designed to run on advanced new hardware, much of the new hardware is NDA. T^his makes a lot of V54 under NDA as well. What is not NDA will soon published. In fact, some already is. An awful lot of V54 is in Enhancer 2.1.

The minimum new hardware apparently will be the SAM 460.

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Bosanac 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 18:03:22
#16 ]
Member
Joined: 10-May-2022
Posts: 48
From: Unknown

@Neuf

Hi Jim!

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 18:16:49
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1330
From: CRO

@Neuf

Are you saying that V54 is PPC only? That's crazy. What new HW can they build that's either reasonably priced or performant enough? Obviously, no lessons were lerned.
I guess, for existing Acube and A-eon customers, it might be tempting, considering Hyperion has let OS4.1 down the drain. But that's a few hundred sales at best... Then what?

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Neuf 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 18:37:36
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I was hoping for some rational cooperation between A-EO)N and the MorphOS team ,but some events recently dashed my hopes. It was not about joining forces, but about common hardware, even if the OSES were very different.

The reason Trevor seems to support OS4 and the A1222 is ver simple---survival. The minute the A1222 is cancelled, it is all over for Trevor in the Amiga community.

Neither MorphOS nor V54 will eve run on the A1222. It is even very unlikely that Linux will run on the A1222. Will it ever ship? Who knows? I don't know.

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BigD 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 18:51:41
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 6307
From: UK

@Neuf

They will ship 100 more Early Adopter machines but beyond that I really wouldn't bet on it! Far far far too many variables IMHO. Seriously, at this stage it feels like the USA restarting the F-22 Raptor program would be more of a cert despite the original tooling being destroyed!

Last edited by BigD on 31-May-2022 at 06:53 PM.

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Neuf 
Re: What if the rumor is true?
Posted on 31-May-2022 19:26:40
#20 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2017
Posts: 34
From: Unknown

@cdimauro

I beg to disagree with you. It is truly a massive task. This is why it has taken several years to do this. The graphics library is the prime reason why this project has taken place in the first place. It has been totally replaced. Exec has been totally replaced with an entirely new kernel.This includes a great many of the components that you are talking about.

On top of that, he has introduced some major new components such as energy management to further complicate things. He is investing a considerable amount of money in this project. He has issued contracts in the six figure range for this project.

If this were a project started by amateur coders, it would have been very difficult to complete. He has however hired a group of very competant coders to do the bulk of the heavy lifting. He seems to have adequate financial resources to get this done.

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