@NoelFuller

Quote:

It does not matter when you place an order as long as you don't part with any money before availability is assured.

Obviously. But at the usual web store order and payment go hand in hand (be that credit card details or whatnot), so depending on the circumstances I may have to wait with the order as well. Again, this should not be a problem for anyone if the availability is as announced and the machines start shipping out.

I am not asking for anything more than I would of any online purchase I make (I usually only order from stores where availability is immediate/near immediate, unless some special-order), so no worries. I'll put up if/when the time comes.

@ChrisH

Quote:

Then ACK really needs to learn to use smileys in IRC, to avoid any further misunderstandings. You'd thought he would be keen to avoid any more of those...

How many throw away words are uttered in anger?

Quote:

I hope I am wrong about ACK.

Hmm ... On the subject of letting machines speak for themselves would not an operating system be a necessary feature? I've heard a new machine running OS4 may be demonstrated in Italy shortly but I would bet it is not being offered for sale.

Noel

@tonyw

Quote:

Would your promise extend to pre-purchase?

Anyone would be crazy to do that after so many failed prepay-preorder things in the Amiga community. I will most likely buy a PAsemi board if they materialize, but I would never prepay. Not just because of the history of ACK's releases, but mostly because of how many of those prepay schemes go nowhere. Heck, I'm still waiting for the $250 AI owes me in coupons and Party Pack rebates for the AmigaOne. They could consider that as a prepayment, but I don't expect they will, and they won't get a penny more out of me until something can ship that same day.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Hmm ... On the subject of letting machines speak for themselves would not an operating system be a necessary feature? I've heard a new machine running OS4 may be demonstrated in Italy shortly but I would bet it is not being offered for sale.

Considering the machines were announced for summer 2007 availability without any mention of the OS in the announcement, and the subsequent comment from Adam about OS5 replacing OS4 if need be, I'd have to assume they have considered the OS issue when setting out the timeline. They knew about the court case already then, they must have known even if they win in court porting OS4 to the board in this timeframe might not happen - if the announcement is legit, they will have some backup.

As said, it is fine for me if they ship it with Linux initially, much like Eyetech did with AmigaOne.

@jtsiren

I was actually thinking of an undemonstrated hardware project when I made that remark.

I've been imagining a cartoon with hardware projects being crushed between a rock (Hyperion) and a hard place (Amiga Inc)

Noel

@ChrisH

Quote:

That's definitely how I feel. I started off believing in ACK, then delays & failed promises, then I find out he has failed to deliver on previous promises. As I got less sure of ACK, I was more demanding for SOME proof, ANY proof that he was legit. The infamous failure to show promised pictures (now 1 year ago) was the last straw for me, and apparently for ACK too. I came to the conclusion that he probably had no proof to show, and I don't think you can blame me for coming to that conclusion. Even though I hope I am wrong about ACK.

And yet let me ask you, if ACK produced pics now could you move on in support of him with far less doubt? I could and I think many others would as well. In essence we are extending an olive branch with the smallest of conditions, something that costs ACK nothing to do and that he previously agreed to. This thread is even producing promises of machine purchases regardless of if any proof in the meantime is ever given. What more can we do then start guarantying him sales in this thread, unconditionally? Why will he not work with us to settle this doubt that we have through no fault of our own?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 04:36 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

the first beatings Page 6 is worth paying attention to as well the date of the thread.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

And many kind words as well are in that thread. Punishing the innocent majority for the guilty few. Thats not proper. Many people, believers or doubters of ACK, condem that which you call "the beatings". We can't build a time machine to go back and stop them from a few nasty posts. A user was even banned for it. If he has had such a last straw with "us" why does he want the same "us" to buy when stuff is out and in the meantime stay interested?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 11:16 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jun-2007 at 11:16 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

I said I would have nothing more to say about Ack but there is more to say. I wonder if people have hunted out that log I refered to a few posts ago? It was a long and brutal session.

Quote:

Why will he not work with us to settle this doubt that we have through no fault of our own?

I'll raise or bring together a few points though I've provided some broad hints recently.

Working with us - Sundown has just linked us to the evidence on the us part of that - it's just not going to happen, not in this thread even though it has got a whole lot nicer.

You have already acknowledged the vulnerability of one man shows to knockouts, including personal things, that larger firms or groups are largely invulnerable to. Of the three personal things that have loomed over Adam two in particular have knocked me out for considerable periods and even death of someone close, expected and long prepared for, still has got all my attention for periods. Two of the three at least are behind Adam for now.

Another one man issue is that of priorities or doing too much at once. Apart from technical issues time, finance, demand and eventually licensing have their bearing on priorities. On the technical side something is believed to work, ah happiness. the news gets out, then last minute testing reveals all is not well. This aflicts all projects, with respect to the CPU cards, particularly the 1.7 MHz card which most prospective customers wanted, but eventually they were said to be sorted. I bet Ack's machines run a good deal faster than mine does! Now ACube have moved somewhat into the CPU "repair and improve" territory.

On debugging delays I can only indicate my own experience. I used to run an electronics section in a laboratory. Measuring things by electronic means were my main activities, logging and extracting lots of data for various other sections and engineers. I had to make most of my gear. The better I got the more demanding others got. I full remember the long unpaid hours, night after night I devoted to trying, sometimes unsuccessfully, to chase down that last instability affecting the reliability of tiny measurements so something could be run tomorrow. Then there was the technician who, while I was on holiday, put water proof shields over hundreds of transducers but put them on the wrong way up. I came back from holiday to find each transducer immersed in its very own lake, all the measurements compromised. I got the blame of course. In terms of electronic sophistication my activities were primitive compared to Adam's, and the technical issues likewise.

With bugs to chase in a CPU card the PV LT again became the priority. That kept getting modified too but eventually was said to be OK but then came a knockout from an unexpected direction. The version acting as an A1200 accelerator, though new hardware, was assumed to have no licensing issues re OS4, but given the dispute long in progress, would Hyperion have been prepared to issue him with OS4? Of course the stand alone version had no chance of a licence given the licensing conflict.

Ack tried to bundle the projects for better pricing and quicker availability but that did not survive the licensing conflict.

Ack wants his machines to speak for themselves, running OS4, market ready. These are strict conditions that make such terms as hoax or fantasy non-starters if realised. For one cause or another he has not been able to do that. He is still caught up in a rock crusher and whether or not he gets out depends on others who have forgotten how to talk usefully to each other and appear locked in mortal conflict.

Group attention focussed negatively on a person can be devastating to health and well being, even fatal. I know what that is like, and also seen in others what it can do. Rejection by the group with which one identifies, earned or not, can be the worst experience of ones life. I've seen the agony of those who have gone through this. To those who read this perhaps you have been through the same and know what I mean, if you have not then one day you may find yourself desperate for some understanding and for a way forward. I have rejoiced whenever I've seen you, seen you who participate in this thread, try to lift the game, find a better understanding than straight out condemnation in absence of knowlege or understanding, achieve detachment. I do not advocate self deception in the cause of being nice, nor false optimism, nor the abandonment of caution, but I do advocate compassionate understanding or if you do not have the necessary knowledge, at least a compassionate detachment. Wait and see. If nothing, too bad. If this licensing - ownership mess gets cleaned up then we may see.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

I'll raise or bring together a few points though I've provided some broad hints recently.

Hints? lol

Quote:

On the technical side something is believed to work, ah happiness. the news gets out, then last minute testing reveals all is not well. This aflicts all projects,

The news dosen't "get out", the intentional announcement, after having all the time in the world he would like to take for testing gets made. Big, big difference.

Quote:

The version acting as an A1200 accelerator, though new hardware, was assumed to have no licensing issues re OS4, but given the dispute long in progress, would Hyperion have been prepared to issue him with OS4? Of course the stand alone version had no chance of a licence given the licensing conflict.

No sweat, he says it runs Linux. Show it running Linux. No license issue for that.

Quote:

Ack wants his machines to speak for themselves, running OS4, market ready.

Thats nice. Others want things too. Its not all about what ACK wants, especially since he solicits our interest. We didn't go running to him to make new announcements again. If ACK wants to only worry about what ACK wants they should probably not be in business to make products for others. Especially after promising pictures previously for an earlier project. What next passing whim shall we excuse?

Quote:

He is still caught up in a rock crusher and whether or not he gets out depends on others who have forgotten how to talk usefully to each other and appear locked in mortal conflict.

I brought this up before, I will so again, how many enemies of the ACK state do we have to get down to for him not to be caught in this "rock crusher" that supposedly we have created and pushed him into? I'll take a guess that gliterring will still be around somewhere. Or is one person ok? What exactly is the limit? Everyone in life will always have their critics.

Quote:

Group attention focussed negatively on a person can be devastating to health and well being, even fatal.

True, but also there may be this at play instead:

Group attention, even if focussed negatively on a person can sadly fulfill someone who lives for attention.

Which is it? The more a simple request is ignored the more it appears to be the latter in my mind. I keep hoping not.

Quote:

but I do advocate compassionate understanding or if you do not have the necessary knowledge, at least a compassionate detachment. Wait and see. If nothing, too bad. If this licensing - ownership mess gets cleaned up then we may see.

I surely am compassionate about the president of ACK losing his father. About people being mean to him at the time and since. I'm compassionate about the difficulties as running this as a second business, likely out of his home. We have waited and seen nothing even though it was said that would change and we would be shown something at one point. As soon as one person started to save for the $500 or $1500 for one of the new boxes ACK has affected others in a tangible way. Consumer activism is proper at this juncture given history. Nothing disruptive is asked for, nothing that he already dosen't say exists and works.

ACK dismisses any licensing issue, he is saying now OS5 at worst case we are told in this thread from an irc chat, and again most announcements are post lawsuit. So still no issues. So we should "see" anyway.

ACK's army of new defenders awaits, simply show us something.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@NoelFuller

The more I read your posts, the more I feel that your objective is to provide excuses for Ack.

Quote:

Working with us - Sundown has just linked us to the evidence on the us part of that - it's just not going to happen

Are you referring to Ack demonstrating that he has some credibility in some form ? That's not "working with us". We are the customer, he is the supplier; or so we are to believe. It's very strange for a supplier to not want to get his customers interested in his products, don't you think ?

A few photos would tell a lot. Many people would be able to get behind Ack if they could see that these things really exist and that the work is really happening. I totally fail to understand why, if they are bona fide, Ack has decided not to back up any of the claims he has ever made here.

Quote:

Another one man issue is that of priorities or doing too much at once.

Are you suggesting the slimmest of chances that, after all, maybe it's quite a lot of work for one man and that he may not be up to it ?

Quote:

I bet Ack's machines run a good deal faster than mine does!

On what evidence do you make that assertion ?

Quote:

With bugs to chase in a CPU card the PV LT again became the priority.

I thought the excuse was "difficult to get hold of hardware and high prices" ?
EFIKA is similar spec, available and cheap.

Quote:

but given the dispute long in progress, would Hyperion have been prepared to issue him with OS4?

I'm confused now: PV was not finished because of OS4 licencing issues. Surely after being burned on this project Ack would have been doubly careful and got some cast iron agreement before starting work on the new hardware ?

In this 2005 article he says "they have since long been working on OS4". 2005. Licencing issues still not dealt with ?

Quote:

Ack wants his machines to speak for themselves

Now you are acting as Ack's spokesperson, or putting words into his mouth. Each time he is the hero, battling impossible odds, with the goal of doing his bit for the Amiga community. If he said this then where ? IRC ?

Quote:

Group attention focussed negatively on a person can be devastating to health and well being, even fatal.

Are you saying Ack lives his life in this forum ? Surely he has a life outside of computers ? I don't like your implication that if anyone asks a difficult question then they are contributing to Ack's troubles. I don't wish the man any ill, but difficult questions are the norm here, especially when you make several bold claims with nothing to back you up.

@NoelFuller

Quote:

He is still caught up in a rock crusher and whether or not he gets out depends on others who have forgotten how to talk usefully to each other and appear locked in mortal conflict.

That statement is inherently incorrect. ACK could get out of the rock crusher (at least to some extent) by simply providing alternate proof that he is legit if he is unable to deliver market ready products in time. It is his choice to stay there.

Quote:

Group attention focussed negatively on a person can be devastating to health and well being, even fatal.

ACK solicited our attention time and time again. I think the assumption that he'd only get positive attention was unrealistic and I think still is unreasonable. I also don't consider attention on the Internet by anonymous strangers (or any kind of similar market research) comparable to, say, negative group attention live at a workplace that can truly be harmful to a person. And in this case, like you seem to vaguely agree, the current attention is earned - ACK is just being held accountable for what they themselves announced to us out of their free will. That is what adults and companies have to face in the real world, accountability for their actions.

I also think you are making way too broad assumptions about ACK's motives and events at times to justify excusing him. I don't think all of your assumptions about events, timelines and reasons why some thing happened or did not happen are necessarily accurate (and hence can't be used for certain to excuse things). We've discussed this in more detail earlier in the thread. You also failed to answer what is the point at which you would personally be willing to drop the ever-understanding attitude and hold someone accountable for their actions?

As for the rest of the argument, I guess I have personally exhausted my stock of new things to say.

I do hope the $489 machine gets released in time, that would indeed be something.

Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jun-2007 at 08:23 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jun-2007 at 08:18 AM.
Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jun-2007 at 08:18 AM.

I think whats particularly annoying for the community is that the thread is entitled
"ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period".

The thread is asking where they are?

ACK posts on the thread but won't answer that question. That's just going to antagonise people.

@MajorOwned

Quote:

The thread is asking where they are?

Well, now it is already a month and a half since mid-May.

Obviously, though, we wouldn't necessarily know if a developer did get their board, they might not publicly announce it.

Last edited by jtsiren on 29-Jun-2007 at 10:18 AM.

So.... did anyone try to place a pre-order at Amiga Inc?
I guess you could use the contact form for inquiries.

I mean we are still speculating a lot of course, but I think we better take action in order to get a response. I don't expect an official comment from ACK or Amiga Inc at this forum, so in order to make things in a correct somewhat more official sense, I think the only thing left for us is to make official inquiries to Amiga Inc, since ACK has no official contact information available. And I don't suggest we all should send an inquiry to Amiga Inc, it would then look more like spamming or a protest and I think we should try to be as polite and kind we can, regardless of how many of us feel.

Since they wrote about "Ready for customers summer 2007" and we soon are in the month of july, I find nothing strange about asking them now.

/Shackleton

Last edited by shackleton on 29-Jun-2007 at 10:35 AM.

@shackleton

Good for you. Exactly what I have been suggesting. Well put.

Noel

@koan

I have twice tried to answer your every question and even thought I was doing well but the first time I tried to look back through the thread for a reference IBrowse lost the messaging page. The second time a lockup occured as I was finishing, These random lockups seem to be related to anything using the net. To minimize I have to start IBrowse before any other net software. I usually have one in a day if I've been using net software. I've had enough this night and must get a little sleep before the fifth Americas Cup race, 2 all, first to 5 so I may attempt another response in the morning.

Noel

@NoelFuller

Quote:

Good for you. Exactly what I have been suggesting. Well put.

So... what do we ask of Amiga Inc. then?

To publish photographs of PowerVixxen or the new ACK board?

To sell us an ACK board?

The first would seem a bit silly (especially since ACK is the one responsible for those), the latter I'd say they have already said they'd provide more information on and it would be ready this summer. I guess we could ask for a schedule, but what exactly is it that we'd ask from Amiga Inc.?

I have plenty of questions I'd ask ACK, but I don't really know what I'd ask Amiga Inc. that I'd actually think they'd give me a straight answer to. Please, if anyone in this thread wants to formulate that query and send it to Amiga Inc. by all means!

@shackleton

Quote:

So.... did anyone try to place a pre-order at Amiga Inc? I guess you could use the contact form for inquiries.

All I can say from personal experience is that I have never received any answer to my inquiries using the contact form.

@hatschi

Quote:

say from personal experience is that I have never received any answer to my inquiries using the contact form.

That is why I'm hesitant to even try that route. The history of general people getting responses (at least tangible responses) from Amiga Inc. is very clear: you usually don't get a response and even if you do, it is probably just some marketing lingo and the actual issue is not addressed.

Of course it could be different this time around? Anyone want to try?