@MikeB

Quote:

Does he even realize that Sony employs over twice as many people than Microsoft does?

Microsoft employes way more people then Sony. Imagine what would happen if Windows was stable and easy to use. Lan adminstrators and desktop support would be living on the streets. There's be millions unemployed around the globe.

If 640K wasn't already enough for you here's another brilliant statement from Microsoft's Bill Gates:

"hey we're not a one-product company. Many of our competitors were one-product companies. Now they're not one-product companies, but Sony's just in video games, Nokia's largely just in mobile phones, IBM's largely in enterprise type software situations"

http://news.spong.com/article/13339?cb=736

So Sony is all about video games? I thought Sony has doubled its profits as a whole while its gaming devision reported losses... How can this be?



Does he even realize that Sony employs over twice as many people than Microsoft does?

Last edited by MikeB on 02-Aug-2007 at 01:07 AM.

@BrianK

Some more food for thought, apart from the PS2 having outsold the XBox 360 for every month so far since the XBox 360 release. The XBox and XBox 360's by far most successful market has been the US, but according to research firm Nielsen:

42 % of game time in June for the US was on the Playstation 2.

And only:
17% was on the original XBox console.
8% on the XBox 360.
4% Nintendo Wii

Sony Playstation gaming is still King with regard to console gaming by good margins, even in the US.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Aug-2007 at 09:34 PM.

@MikeB

As you said it's hard to tell with such small numbers. The big numbers come Sept-Dec timeframe. This is the period which will better establish the future of all consoles. That's why Microsoft has to shore up their problems (supposedly in process), extend their warranty (they did), cut their price (appears to be coming) and push their fixes along with their games huge this Christmas (don't know but they likely will do this.)

@ BrianK

The first Japanese sales figures for last week are in. It appears Oblivion didn't boost XBox 360 sales that much at all, but PS3 hardware sales got boosted quite a bit with the release of Hot Shots Golf 5.

According to VGChatz (and Famitsu with similar figues, stating around 40K hardware sales for the PS3):

PS3: 37,524 (about three times as much as last week's sales figure)
XBox 360 3,555 (+27%)

For Europe, the new bundles seem to sell well with Resistance again in the UK top 10 last week.

For North America, the PS3 has been ranking at number 1 for over a week, the Wii took over for a few days, but the PS3 is taking the number 1 spot again at Amazon's gaming bestsellers list.

@BrianK

Quote:

I'll disagree. PS2 online head to head gaming existed but this was far below the experience on the original Xbox Live.

The PS2 was released one year before the XBox was on the market. Online functionality wasn't the core focuss of the console and judging from the sales they have made the right choices with regard to the console.

However now we aren't talking about 7 years ago, we're are talking about now and many years into the future. Obiviously with a Gigabit ethernet port and even Wi-Fi for the 60 GB model, Sony's focuss has expanded to suit their longterm outlook.

Quote:

Xbox showed Sony was that users would accept BIOS upgrades to consoles

The XBox didn't do too well worldwide, a better example would have been the Sony PSP.

@MikeB
Quote:

I think Sony will go far beyond XBox Live and I think it happen nomatter if there would have been any XBox or not.

I'll disagree. PS2 online head to head gaming existed but this was far below the experience on the original Xbox Live. PS3 online initally was far below Xbox Live on the 360. I think they might go beyond but having a company who has done better indeed encourage them to keep pushing themselves. Another thing the Xbox showed Sony was that users would accept BIOS upgrades to consoles. This allowed Sony to ship a less then perfect solution and patch bugs. Had Sony used the PS1 or PS2 method without online updates of the OS the PS3 definitely would have been 07 or beyond instead of 06 w/ 6 months of bug patches.

For those who wish to think this is 'bashing' it's not. They are but examples of how Sony and Microsoft improve their offerings due to the market competition between each other.

Last edited by BrianK on 01-Aug-2007 at 08:16 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

And best competition. Microsoft's Live service is forcing Sony to catch up with their online interactivity and gaming presence.

I think Sony will go far beyond XBox Live and I think it would happen nomatter if there would have been any XBox or not.

We Amigans already played null modem connected games like Battle Chess, Stunt Car Racer and Gravity Force during the 80s. IMO online gaming on consoles was just a matter of time dependent more on the mainstream uptake of broadband internet rather than anything else.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Aug-2007 at 06:27 PM.

@MikeB
Quote:

Microsoft and Sony are each other's worst enemies.

And best competition. Microsoft's Live service is forcing Sony to catch up with their online interactivity and gaming presence. The 360 coming to market in 05 locked Sony to a PS3 in 06 date. No doubt Sony being the #1 player in the last gen with the PS2 gave Microsoft a target to shoot for. Little doubt with the upcoming Cell Microsoft had to create an overall solution which was highly competitive. So worst enemies perhaps but indeed today's consoles would be different if neither one of them were competition for each other.

@Lou
RARE making DS games make sense. I think Microsoft realizes that there are synergies to gain between handheld and console gaming. Microsoft will likely leverage the DS to bring people to game but then have a related title which is a 360 exclusive. Sony has this with the PSP/PS3, Nintendo has this with the DS/Wii. Nintendo/Microsoft working together is going to be easier on either then other option so therefore DS. Makes some sense I think to make a smaller, less expensive, portable version of the game and get the interest then make a larger and more full featured version which you can enjoy at home.

RRoD does harkon back to the BSoD. 5th console? Nah. Microsoft seems to be a 3rd time is a charm player. I think the next console they won't rush to market and more time in Q/A will benefit the quality of the unit.

@Lou

Quote:

Amazingly, MS has released 3 DS games

IMO not that strange. Microsoft and Sony are eachother's worst enemies. IMO MIcrosoft's backing of HDDVD is also a result of this. Personally I am on Sony's side, being without Sony would be an enormous blow to innovative progress, being without Microsoft would IMO open up endless oppertunities for competitors, finally there would be potential for the market pushing forward significantly within a just a couple of years without worrying about monopoly might and abuse undermining competitive progress.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Aug-2007 at 05:49 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 01-Aug-2007 at 05:48 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: I think both Microsoft and Sony over estimated their solution for the casual gamer something the Wii seems to have hit a virtual home run on so far. This Wii factor to me says that Micrsoft is realizing this too by placing more focus on the the casual gamer one example is the forthcoming Scene-It game and one big button controller for the game.

Amazingly, MS has released 3 DS games within the past year or so. Age of Empires, Donkey Kong Country DS and announced Viva Pinata (a port of the Xbox game). All RARE titles. One IGN staffer also claims to have played a proto-type HALO DS game... Is this a sign of MS returning to it's software roots? Are they only in the game to prevent Sony from taking over your living room?

Interesting how the RRoD issue reminds me of the BSoD (blue screen of death)... Well, maybe by the time their 5th console comes about, they will finally get the hardware right...

@BrianK

Quote:

HD Tuner and PVR functionality is interesting. The 360 has compenstated by it's extensive download store and has become the largest online HD content provider.

.... for those who live in USA.
All that is in the marketplace store here, is demos, arcade games and a few OLD movie trailers.

A bit offtopic:
All mostly thanks to the US tv/movie industry. Same thing with itunes, there is not a single movie or tv serie that one can buy here. No other alternatives either, which means i have to break the damn law to watch the series i like, as i am scifi fan and they dont air that on tv here either, as they are more interested in importing reality tv.

Last edited by Tomas on 01-Aug-2007 at 03:24 PM.

@Lou

I agree the Elite should have included the HD-DVD drive. Though I believe load times are slower and this might force a HD on each system, which there should be too. Microsoft has squashed rumors they're killing the core a few times, personally they should kill the core, shift the premium to core pricing and shift elites into the premium slot. Ahh but if you want a HD-DVD they're now $20 less and come with 5 free movies, not a bad deal.

HD Tuner and PVR functionality is interesting. The 360 has compenstated by it's extensive download store and has become the largest online HD content provider. But, will this get people to buy the consoles? I think both Microsoft and Sony over estimated their solution for the casual gamer something the Wii seems to have hit a virtual home run on so far. This Wii factor to me says that Micrsoft is realizing this too by placing more focus on the the casual gamer one example is the forthcoming Scene-It game and one big button controller for the game.

@Lou

Quote:

Sony seems to be preparing an "Elite" PS3 as well for '08 that will include an HD tuner so that it can do PVR.

PVR functionality has been one of my most important recommendations for the platform in the distant past. The tuner will likely be an external add-on for existing PS3s, hopefully it will be wirelessly connected to the PS3.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-Aug-2007 at 01:25 PM.

Interesting news:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6637&Itemid=2

So 65nm 360's have been in production for 2 quarters and 45nm 360's will come out in late '08 with a possible redesigned console that is smaller.

Perhaps this redesigned console will integrate an HD-DVD drive. Personally, I think the Elite should have done that and cost $50 more.

Sony seems to be preparing an "Elite" PS3 as well for '08 that will include an HD tuner so that it can do PVR.

Due in late September is another Wii hardware announcement. I don't expect much. Maybe new colors other than white. Hopefully more flash ram and a system update to better integrate the SD slot's flash ram with the channels.

Looking down the road, if the Wii is a fad and some alude to and HD visuals will win out in the end, I can see Nintendo making a Wii 2 rather easily with another mild clock speed bump (to 2x vs. the curremt 1.5x over the Gamecube) and enlarging the embedded frame buffer and texture memory to 6MB and the main memory from 64MB to 128MB and still have it be 100% backwards compatible with the current Wii and GC but be capable of pushing 720p visuals thanks the the larger frame buffer.

@MikeB

I agree that the % tell us more when the overall #s are higher. But, if I think if we were seeing people run away due to quality issues the % in Japan should be large. It's not, it's in the ball park.

There's a couple Japan only 360 games on the way. And Ace Combat 6 is expected to do well. But yeah most of the 360 Japan games are in 08.

Kim said Microsoft didn't expect to take Japan this generation but does expect to do better. I think nearly every Japanese developer making games for the 360 tells us that they're trying. Right now if a Japanese developer wants to play it safest they'd go Wii. If they want to reach out of Japan they'd go Wii and target the 360, at least until the PS3 picks up some more users.

DFC INTELLIGENCE says ---
Conclusion: The pressure is on Microsoft to really drive sales of the Xbox 360 this holiday season. If Halo 3 and other products fail to drive Xbox 360 sales, the system will soon flirt with numerous unsavory scenarios, the worst of which is the danger of becoming a distant third in the video game market share battle... fall 2007 Xbox 360 release schedule is clearly a strong group of products with a wide variety of games. We would say that this will probably be the last holiday season that the Xbox 360 will have such a clear software advantage over the competition. If consumers are not lining up to buy an Xbox 360 this holiday, Microsoft clearly has problems.

I think key to that is obviously the extended warranty and how well Microsoft is able to push that the problems are a thing of the past. Without those 2 there's little chance this Christmas.

Hitwise's Global Research division states
The Xbox 360 has overtaken the Nintendo Wii as the most searched for gaming console based on share of US Internet searches for the first time since the Wii’s launch in November 2006....Searches for “xbox 360 problems” and “xbox 360 repair” figure at #13 and #15 on the list. ...“xbox 360 price drop” (#6 on the list above) ... and there were 70% more US searches for “xbox 360 price drop” than for “ps3 price drop” in the last 4 weeks.

Seems to me that rumblings might be occurring and since 'repair' was relatively low item for the 360 it seems the concerns are likely being mitagated fairly well. Also interesting was pre-PS3 drop more people were searching for a 360 price drop. Time is ripe for one, especially with the up to 4 player co-op on a console with all online Halo3. Of course rumors abound of Circuit City, Wal-Mart and others with a $50 price drop.

@BrianK

The percentages don't tell us much when dealing with such low figures. For example if you sell 10 XBox 360s one week and the next week 20, that's a 100% increase (very little is needed to achieve such a thing), that doesn't mean the XBox 360 performs well at all or is gaining market share. I am sure there are multiple factors involved for the very slow Japanese and European hardware sales of which reliability is an important factor.

For the mentioned week no major Japanese targetted titles were released for either system, so this is likely the base level of sales we can expect for both platforms at this point. However all major bullets have already been fired by Microsoft for the Japanese market, at least the main system seller Blue Dragon has already been released quite a while ago. For the PS3 obviously games like Metal Gear Solid 4, Final Fantasy, White Knight Story, etc are the main expected system sellers still to be released. So far the only important Japan targetted PS3 title released was Gundam Musuo.

However for the week which ended on the 29th of July, the Japanese version of Oblivion has been released for the XBox 360, so XBox 360 hardware sales may well double or probably even triple considering the low figures. Of course a PS3 version at this point would have sold significantly better, but for now its a Japanese time exclusive and will push some additional systems.

However on the other hand Sony also released a pretty popular PS3 game last week, Hot Shots Golf 5 and I expect this to beat Gundam Musou in terms of lifetime sales and we may well see similar sales increases for the PS3 for the week, again widening the gap between the two platforms significantly (even if the game would only boost hardware sales by 50%, which BTW seems unlikely).

Last edited by MikeB on 31-Jul-2007 at 10:34 PM.

@MikeB

Here's this weeks Japanese #s.
-Wii: 86,786 23,068 (Down 21.00%)
- PS2: 14,059 1,718 (Down 10.89%)
- PS3: 12,187 1,306 (Down 9.68%)
- Xbox 360: 2,664 278 (Down 9.45%)

Indeed pathetic 360 #s sold in Japan.

But, the question that begs out of this is are users running away from the 360 due to quality issues? As we can see the change in sales for the 360 is the best of the changes so difficult to fairly conclude that quality is the large reason people are starying away.

@jtsiren

Quote:

jtsiren wrote: Don't worry guys, I've given up on this thread. It seems to interest only two people anyway. Feel free to rumble!

Ahh come on the goal has always been to get MikeB to 50 pages.