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spotUP
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:02:53
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Elite Member |
Joined: 19-Aug-2003 Posts: 2896
From: Up Rough Demo Squad | | |
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| @pixie
i never mentioned anything about any bounty. and that's the end of my communication with you. this discussion is pointless and won't lead anywhere. yes, it's personal, don't try to read anything into this that ain't there, just ignore my post, like i always have done with yours.
_________________ AOS4 Betatester, Peg2, G4@1ghz, Radeon 9250 256mb, 1gb RAM.
http://www.asciiarena.com http://www.uprough.net |
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pixie
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:09:19
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 3140
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal | | |
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| @Chip I wasn't asking for x11 now was I? I have on of the best implementations, mind you...
What I said was, if the purpose of the bounty is building Firefox for ALL Amiga like systems, giving a bounty to a tied solution doesn't make any sense...
I'm all for recognition Andrea's work, but bounty goals goes far beyond an X11 implementation. _________________ Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home. The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga |
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itix
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:11:51
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Elite Member |
Joined: 22-Dec-2004 Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world | | |
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| @umisef
By using base relative addressing of course.
_________________ Amiga Developer Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:16:49
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Elite Member |
Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12823
From: Norway | | |
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| @pixie
Quote:
also because it would only be available for OS4 |
The bounty conditions might be unrealistic, because the might deepens on other ported to do that, it might way more work, and it might also be that depends on new features of AmigaOS4, for example dynamic .so files, maybe other things to that for be complicated to do on OS3.x
_________________ http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/ Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS |
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pixie
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:17:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 3140
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal | | |
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| @spotUP
Please don't read it as if it was something personal against you because it wasn't. There's a line of discussion, and I answer towards it, not towards you specifically . Go over the thread and you'll see that.
Yourself says it ain't there on your post, so extrapolate that it just is a sum of it. will I acknowledge all or just the tail of discussion? Tough decision... _________________ Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home. The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga |
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NutsAboutAmiga
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:19:47
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Joined: 9-Jun-2004 Posts: 12823
From: Norway | | |
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Manu
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 20:37:20
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Super Member |
Joined: 4-Feb-2004 Posts: 1561
From: Unknown | | |
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| @afxgroup
Good work, man ! Keep it up ! _________________ AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current, hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie |
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pixie
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 22:17:38
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Mar-2003 Posts: 3140
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal | | |
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| @NutsAboutAmiga
Perhaps it wasn't meant to be easy... Aloowing Firefox for all Amiga like systems would bring much expertise needed for other ports I assume. _________________ Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home. The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga |
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Fats
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 22:33:40
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Member |
Joined: 19-Aug-2003 Posts: 44
From: Unknown | | |
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| @umisef
Quote:
umisef wrote:
The huge advantage of allowing for this kind of thing, however, is that the copy-on-write works just as well for global and static variables. Unlike AmigaOS shared libraries, linux ones can use such variables to their heart's content without worrying about things breaking. And given that even the standard C library has numerous examples implying static variables in provided functions, that's worth a lot.
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The only major difference between amiga shared libraries and unix shared libraries is that on amiga function names are translated in LVO numbers at compile time and on linux they have to be translated to addresses at load time. (That's also why I like amiga shared libraries because in the end they will always load faster).
All other tricks applied to unix shared libraries could also in the end be applied to amiga shared libraries. Remember that in the first unix versions shared libraries were hard linked to a certain start address and that you got in trouble if two shared libraries had overlapping address space.
Unfortunately the compiler support is not present for doing global variables in amiga shared libraries but there is no fundamental reason why a compiler could not automatically add the global variables to the libbase and address them relative to this pointer. Every time a program opens a library, a new set of global variables could be allocated and if an API for accessing the MMU is available even copy-on-write could be used.
greets, Staf.
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jahc
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 13-Jul-2007 23:53:59
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-May-2003 Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand | | |
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| @CygnusEd
Quote:
I think, I should write some words about my new Cygnix here:
I'm recompiling the whole project to achieve these targets: * Better performance. As a first step I use now newlib instead of clib2. It's faster now, but still not fast enough. Now the server must be optimized. * Reduce conflicts with other unix ports and with the OS4-SDK. * Use a common way to compile/configure all parts of cygnix. |
I remember X11 being slow, so I just loaded Abiword back up to refresh my memory. Now, it is slow, but maybe not unusably slow. So if you do speed things up slightly, I think it might be a bearable firefox environment.
I remember talking to you privately about the ramiga+m problem.. i.e. when you switch to x11's screen, it leaves an "m" in any window accepting text input if you have one open... did you manage to fix this?
Secondly.. I think once we get Firefox, we're going to want to use the clipboard a lot! Is clipboard support planned?
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tonyw
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 0:59:01
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2003 Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course) | | |
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| There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions.
Please bear in mind that you haven't seen it yet and when it is released to the public, it might turn out to be very different from anything that you could dream of on an OS3 system.
_________________ cheers tony
Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php |
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umisef
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 2:38:15
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Joined: 19-Jun-2005 Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia | | |
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| @tonyw
Quote:
There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions. |
Can't speak for others, but I was talking about the loaded-at-runtime and shared-between-users libs as present in 3.x. The thing that has commonly been referred to as a "shared library" for decades...
If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.
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Hans
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 2:51:02
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Elite Member |
Joined: 27-Dec-2003 Posts: 5067
From: New Zealand | | |
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| @umisef
Quote:
umisef wrote: @tonyw
Quote:
There seem to be several people talking here about Amiga Shared Libraries as though they know the implementation and its restrictions. |
Can't speak for others, but I was talking about the loaded-at-runtime and shared-between-users libs as present in 3.x. The thing that has commonly been referred to as a "shared library" for decades...
If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings.
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I believe that they were referred to as *NIX style shared-objects, not shared libraries. It should ease porting of open-source software greatly.
Hans
Last edited by Hans on 14-Jul-2007 at 02:51 AM.
_________________ http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project. https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work. |
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Ants
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 4:25:20
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Joined: 28-Jun-2005 Posts: 75
From: Auckland, New Zealand | | |
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| @afxgroup
As far as the AmiZilla bounty is concerned- it requires a native OS4 and native MorphOS version as well as OS3 one- so obviously, we would happily share the bounty with you (and the other devs you mention), so we could all then claim the bounty together! And of course, if OS4 devs help with the OS3 version, they will get a greater share of the bounty too...
As for those complaining about X11- be glad that you're getting FireFox running on X11! A native GUI would be nice, but a lot of work, especially when you consider there is no documentation on how to do it- you'd have to ask questions on mozilla.dev.platform for every function call, or reverse the Windows/X11/GTK layer code (or preferably the the QNX Photon code). I don't know about the Windows code- but the X11/GTK code is awful to read! And the AmiZilla FAQ states: Quote:
Q: What GUI Interface kit will AmiZilla use? Many people love different ones like MUI, Reaction, ClassAct. Also Mozilla has it's own too right? Many people swear by the their favorite one and don't like the others. A: What I would like to see happen with this issue is similar to what Holger Cruz did with the Miami TCP/IP stack. When Miami first came out it required MUI but later Hoger gave users the option of using several different GUI's, they installed their favorite one and that was it. I would very much like to see this happen with AmiZilla too, ultimately it will be up to the coding team though. In order to stay compatible with Mozilla's Themes system they may have to port Mozillas own GUI Toolset though. |
So X11 should be ok for bounty. Work could be done on a native one later of course.
Ants AmiZilla Team Coordinator _________________ - Ants |
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Fransexy
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 8:18:36
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Elite Member |
Joined: 8-Jun-2004 Posts: 2334
From: Elche (Alicante), spain | | |
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| @Ants
Quote:
I don't know about the Windows code- but the X11/GTK code is awful to read! |
wasn´t there an x11 emulation library?compiled x11 apps had a MUI gui.With this Amifig (xfig) and XV was ported.it Is not perfect so why not improbe this library instead.Once it´s completed a GTK++ an WxWidgets port shouldn´t be difficult to implement_________________ No PowerPC, No Fun Make Amiga Great Again |
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Rogue
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 10:49:16
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OS4 Core Developer |
Joined: 14-Jul-2003 Posts: 3999
From: Unknown | | |
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| @umisef
Quote:
If someone, somewhere now wants to bring out something new for AmigaOS and call it "shared libraries", well, my advice would be to rethink the name, or be faced with a lot of confusion and misunderstandings. |
If you are referring to the AmigaOS 4.0 unix style shared objects we've implemented, they are called "shared objects". Their main reason is to ease portability, they make turning some things into shared libraries easier because they have a private data segment and better import/export possibilities._________________ Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail |
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jahc
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 11:47:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 30-May-2003 Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand | | |
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| @Rogue
Quote:
If you are referring to the AmigaOS 4.0 unix style shared objects we've implemented, they are called "shared objects". Their main reason is to ease portability, they make turning some things into shared libraries easier because they have a private data segment and better import/export possibilities. |
Do you know if afxgroup made use of this feature with his x11 firefox port?
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mwoof
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 14:36:18
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Super Member |
Joined: 12-Jan-2004 Posts: 1174
From: Larisa, Greece | | |
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| @afxgroup
_________________ And may the AmigaGuide you!
AmigaOne G3-SE, OS4 Final (July 2007 update), Debian Sarge, 512 MB RAM, 20 + 80 GB hard disks, NEC 3540 DVD writer, LG DVD reader, Radeon 9250, SB Live, Intracom Netfaster router, PCI USB card (NEC - OHCI/EHCI) |
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afxgroup
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 17:49:09
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Super Member |
Joined: 8-Mar-2004 Posts: 1968
From: Taranto, Italy | | |
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yak
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Re: Firefox on X11 Posted on 14-Jul-2007 20:50:23
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Regular Member |
Joined: 15-Mar-2006 Posts: 322
From: Bochum, Germany | | |
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| @Rogue
Heh, you've joined AW.net exactly 4 years ago. Happy anniversary! |
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