@voyager2007

How about AROS hosted on AIX

Any laptop potential?

And what's with all the hosted AmigaOS/alike stuff? I'm not into that kind of thing myself.

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@billt

Quote:

billt wrote: Any laptop potential?

Hmm. A blade's dimensions are 245.2x445.8x29.0mm so jamming that into a laptop case might work, but it wouldn't be particularly compact. A 17-19" wide-screen laptop maybe. Possibly this could be slimmed down, depending on how the components are packed inside. Note that my current laptop gives the impression of being thin by putting it on thick rubber pads, and having a thicker section underneath where you're not likely to notice.

Maybe you should ask Ben Heck.

Quote:

And what's with all the hosted AmigaOS/alike stuff? I'm not into that kind of thing myself.

No idea. Seeing as we have a PowerPC OS, I don't see the need either, although a dual-booting system would be useful.

Hans

P.S., I'd love to have an Amiga OS 4 laptop too.

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@FithisUX

Quote:

How about AROS hosted on AIX

Sounds good to me!

Last edited by voyager2007 on 27-Jun-2008 at 08:13 PM.

@Hans

Quote:

OpenCL is CPU architecture independent. There's nothing to stop you using it with any CPU type, from ARM to x86, to some custom CPU.

The purpose of OpenCL is to bring extremely wide parallel computing to everyday applications. Running OpenCL on narrow CPUs would be pointless.

What you are saying, amounts to running CUDA on emulation mode** i.e. running applications on the command CPU.

**You can run CUDA applications on the CPU via emulation mode.

Quote:

Here we go again. You are comparing a CPU-implemented algorithm to a GPU implemented algorithm and then saying "look, the GPU one was faster." You can attach a stream processor as co-processor to any CPU type. I've told you this before, but you keep on repeating the same stuff.

Again, you are not looking at this from the business's perspective. Intel offers combo deals that undercuts separate CPU+IGP/GPU+core logic prices and cut-and-paste reference platforms to OEM and ODMs.

This is the main reason why AMD purchased ATI i.e. it cannot compete on just selling the CPU. Also, AMD/NVIDIA/IBM joint-development on AMD’s “Yamato” laptop reference platform didn’t help PowerPC 970.

In 2006, where's Freescale's laptop reference platform withDX9 class IGP, chipset with PEG (PCI-express gfx) and mobile dual core?

For performance reasons, running GpGPU applications on AGP based chipsets is not recommended.


Quote:

Apple really wasn't happy with not being given what they wanted. Their customers were asking for more powerful (e.g. G5) laptops, and IBM was making it hard to deliver. IIRC, no G5 laptop was ever made for this reason.

IBM's CPC925 Northbridge is just power hungry chip. Again, you missed system platform concept.

Care to restart Intel 945 mobile chipset vs IBM CPC925 Northbridge?
IBM CPC945's minimum 12 watt TDP vs ATI RD580's max 8 watts TDP (from desktop chipset) is just laughable and I’m not even bringing in the mobility chipsets yet.

Let's bring in IBM's latest CPC945 NB vs Intel 965M chipset.
Intel PM965 mobile chipset has 8 watts max TDP.
Intel GM965 mobile chipset with IGP (500Mhz render clock) has 13 watts max TDP.
Intel GM965 mobile chipset with IGP (400Mhz render clock) has 12 watts max TDP.

IBM CPC945 northbridge @ power saving mode is at 12 watts TDP.

A CPU alone is not computer.

Quote:

Your desire to smack down everything non-x86 is comical. You are in effect, also a CPU stakeholder; an x86 one.

X86 is just the after effect. AMD, Intel and laptop market moved beyond the CPU.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 09:51 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 09:46 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 09:29 PM.

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@Tomppeli and @Hans

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote: @Hans Quote: IBM used water-cooling instead of air-conditioning for their latest super-computer (which has a mix of Power and Xeon CPUs IIRC) I'm nitpicking but it's PowerXCell and Opteron (AMD). Quote: This was meant to be a light-hearted joke thread. Please keep the x86 vs PowerPC BS out of it. I second that.

Refer to

To compare, obviously only for games, but how much does does a 4GHz quad core PC cost? Can even PC's run at 4000MHz yet? Looks like PowerPC isn't too bad at all. Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs? Too late for Apple now, c'mon Amiga join IBM and give them an OS!
for the context.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 09:56 PM.

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@Hans

Quote:

Hmm. A blade's dimensions are 245.2x445.8x29.0mm so jamming that into a laptop case might work, but it wouldn't be particularly compact. A 17-19" wide-screen laptop maybe. Possibly this could be slimmed down, depending on how the components are packed inside. Note that my current laptop gives the impression of being thin by putting it on thick rubber pads, and having a thicker section underneath where you're not likely to notice.

The MXM-III spec (as used in 17"and 19" laptops) has of 35watts. Mobile "Fat" GPUs like Geforce 8800M runs under this limit. The command CPU has ~35watt TDP for itself.

MXM-II spec(as used in 15.4" laptops) has a limit of 25watts. NVIDIA's Geforce 8600M GT / 9500M has 22watts.

A single PS3 CELL blows this limit.

Dual MXM-III as in mobile SLI mode doubles this limit to 70 Watts.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 10:10 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Hans Quote: OpenCL is CPU architecture independent. There's nothing to stop you using it with any CPU type, from ARM to x86, to some custom CPU. The purpose of OpenCL is to bring extremely wide parallel computing to everyday applications. Running OpenCL on narrow CPUs would be pointless. What you are saying, amounts to running CUDA on emulation mode** i.e. running applications on the command CPU. **You can run CUDA applications on the CPU via emulation mode.

NO! I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT EMULATION! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Why on earth would using a non-x86 CPU suddenly mean that you cannot use a GPU? OpenCL is an API for using GPU hardware, hence it does NOT matter which CPU you are using. Is this concept really impossible for you to grasp?

Quote:

Quote: Here we go again. You are comparing a CPU-implemented algorithm to a GPU implemented algorithm and then saying "look, the GPU one was faster." You can attach a stream processor as co-processor to any CPU type. I've told you this before, but you keep on repeating the same stuff. Again, you are not looking at this from the business's perspective. Intel offers combo deals that undercuts separate CPU+IGP/GPU+core logic prices and cut-and-paste reference platforms to OEM and ODMs.

Here we go again. I repeat, comparing a CPU implementation to a GPU implementation as a justification for one CPU being better than another is WRONG. Everything else you said is irrelevant.

Quote:

Apple really wasn't happy with not being given what they wanted. Their customers were asking for more powerful (e.g. G5) laptops, and IBM was making it hard to deliver. IIRC, no G5 laptop was ever made for this reason.

IBM's CPC925 Northbridge is just power hungry chip. Again, you missed system platform concept.[/quote]

No I did NOT miss anything. Apple could not deliver what their customers wanted because IBM was not cooperating, so they switched. End of story.

Now I asked you to quit the x86 vs PowerPC BS because it is completely irrelevant to a joke thread about using sever hardware. Instead you continue to mis-read and twist everything that I say in order to mention "GpGPU" and quote specs that no-one else cares about. Please stop.

Your behaviour is verging on harassment.

Hans

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Hans Quote: Hmm. A blade's dimensions are 245.2x445.8x29.0mm so jamming that into a laptop case might work, but it wouldn't be particularly compact. A 17-19" wide-screen laptop maybe. Possibly this could be slimmed down, depending on how the components are packed inside. Note that my current laptop gives the impression of being thin by putting it on thick rubber pads, and having a thicker section underneath where you're not likely to notice. It wouldn't work. The MXM-III spec has of 35watts. Mobile "Fat" GPUs like Geforce 8800M runs under this limit. The command CPU has 35watt TDP for itself. A single PS3 CELL blows this limit. Dual MXM-III as in mobile SLI mode doubles this limit to 70 Watts.

What part of "this thread is not serious" do you not understand? Of course this is not a good solution. And what does a PS3 CELL have to do with any of this?

BTW, the MXM specs and other specifications that you quoted are kind of pointless. When hacking your own laptop from hardware not designed for that purpose, you're not going to care about any of these.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 27-Jun-2008 at 10:14 PM.
Last edited by Hans on 27-Jun-2008 at 10:11 PM.

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@Hans

Quote:

NO! I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT EMULATION! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

The CUDA applications that runs on the host CPU are complied with host’s CPU ISA i.e. you have separate binaries for the GPU and CPU.

I’m just using NV’s terminology.

Quote:

Why on earth would using a non-x86 CPU suddenly mean that you cannot use a GPU?

Still can't grasp system platform and business case.

Is this concept really impossible for you to grasp?

Quote:

OpenCL is an API for using GPU hardware, hence it does NOT matter which CPU you are using. Is this concept really impossible for you to grasp?

Refer to
To compare, obviously only for games, but how much does does a 4GHz quad core PC cost? Can even PC's run at 4000MHz yet? Looks like PowerPC isn't too bad at all. Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs? Too late for Apple now, c'mon Amiga join IBM and give them an OS!
for the context.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Hans Quote: NO! I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT EMULATION! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? The CUDA applications that runs on the host CPU are complied with host’s CPU ISA i.e. you have separate binaries for the GPU and CPU. I’m just using NV’s terminology.

You twisted my words. That's what you did. And you continue to do so even now. How CUDA works is irrelevant.

Quote:

Quote: Why on earth would using a non-x86 CPU suddenly mean that you cannot use a GPU? Still can't grasp system platform and business case. Is this concept really impossible for you to grasp?

Now you are failing to answer the question, and twisting my words again. Unless you have a technical reason why it cannot be done (hint, even PowerPC Macs can use GPUs), zip-it. System platform and business case are irrelevant.

Quote:

Quote: OpenCL is an API for using GPU hardware, hence it does NOT matter which CPU you are using. Is this concept really impossible for you to grasp? Refer to To compare, obviously only for games, but how much does does a 4GHz quad core PC cost? Can even PC's run at 4000MHz yet? Looks like PowerPC isn't too bad at all. Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs? Too late for Apple now, c'mon Amiga join IBM and give them an OS! for the context.

But that is NOT the context. Hypex's comment has nothing to do with OpenCL at all. I know that this is why you started posting meaningless specs, but that's your fault for taking it seriously.

Hans

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Quote:

Hans wrote: @Hammer Quote: Hammer wrote: @Hans [quote] Hmm. A blade's dimensions are 245.2x445.8x29.0mm so jamming that into a laptop case might work, but it wouldn't be particularly compact. A 17-19" wide-screen laptop maybe. Possibly this could be slimmed down, depending on how the components are packed inside. Note that my current laptop gives the impression of being thin by putting it on thick rubber pads, and having a thicker section underneath where you're not likely to notice. It wouldn't work. The MXM-III spec has of 35watts. Mobile "Fat" GPUs like Geforce 8800M runs under this limit. The command CPU has 35watt TDP for itself. A single PS3 CELL blows this limit. Dual MXM-III as in mobile SLI mode doubles this limit to 70 Watts.

What part of "this thread is not serious" do you not understand?
[/quote]
Did you think my post was serious?

I thought my post wasn't serious enough.

Quote:

Of course this is not a good solution. And what does a PS3 CELL have to do with any of this?

Accessibility to the related hardware.

Quote:

BTW, the MXM specs and other specifications that you quoted are kind of pointless. When hacking your own laptop from hardware not designed for that purpose, you're not going to care about any of these. Hans

Depends on the PSU selected e.g. laptop 150watt PSU (as used in Pentium IV Mobile based DTR laptops).

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: Quote: Of course this is not a good solution. And what does a PS3 CELL have to do with any of this? Accessibility to the related hardware.

The hardware was already specified, and the CELL is not on it.

Quote:

Quote: BTW, the MXM specs and other specifications that you quoted are kind of pointless. When hacking your own laptop from hardware not designed for that purpose, you're not going to care about any of these. Hans Depends on the PSU selected e.g. laptop 150watt PSU (as used in Pentium IV Mobile based DTR laptops).

[/quote]

No, it still doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant.

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

Now you are failing to answer the question, and twisting my words again. Unless you have a technical reason why it cannot be done

For laptops, did you miss the posted CPC9xx TDP numbers?

Quote:

(hint, even PowerPC Macs can use GPUs),

This is not in dispute;

In 2006 time frame, spec a dual core PowerPC based laptop with PEG chipset for Apple. Don't forget to include TDP numbers and benchmarks.

You can “bridge” different IOs together but performance may not be ideal.

Quote:

zip-it. System platform and business case are ir relevant

What happened to the "technical reason"? Wasn't the system platform and performance part of the technical reason?

Quote:

But that is NOT the context. Hypex's comment has nothing to do with OpenCL at all.

"Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs?"
1. AMD and Intel are pushing combo deals to ODM and OEMs (Apple is an OEM).
2. Apple is pushing OpenCL.
3. Apple is focusing on mobility.

Quote:

I know that this is why you started posting meaningless specs, but that's your fault for taking it seriously.

What happened to the "technical reason" then?

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 11:48 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jun-2008 at 11:33 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Hans Quote: Now you are failing to answer the question, and twisting my words again. Unless you have a technical reason why it cannot be done For laptops, did you miss the posted CPC9xx TDP numbers?

No, I didn't miss them, they are irrelevant.

Quote:

Quote: (hint, even PowerPC Macs can use GPUs), This is not in dispute; In 2006 time frame, spec a dual core PowerPC based laptop with PEG chipset for Apple. Don't forget to include TDP numbers and benchmarks.

Also irrelevant.

Quote:

Quote: zip-it. System platform and business case are ir relevant What happened to the "technical reason"? Wasn't the system platform and performance part of the technical reason?

You did not post technical reasons why it cannot be done; you posted specs that are, irrelevant.

Quote:

But that is NOT the context. Hypex's comment has nothing to do with OpenCL at all.

"Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs?"
1. AMD and Intel are pushing combo deals to ODM and OEMs (Apple is an OEM).
2. Apple is pushing OpenCL.
3. Apple is focusing on mobility. [/quote]

OpenCL is irrelevant.

Quote:

Quote: I know that this is why you started posting meaningless specs, but that's your fault for taking it seriously. What happened to the "technical reason" then?

This makes no sense. I give up.

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

No, I didn't miss them, they are irrelevant.

In 2005/2006, Apple already has a PPC based laptop with ATI GPU (e.g. M10P over AGP bus) i.e. PowerBook G4 line. But the technical consideration was with future performance i.e. "superior road map".

What’s the option for high performance PEG chipset for PPC during 2005/2006 time period? Hint CPC925. The CPC945 was late and was not competitive enough in the mobile space..

Quote:

You did not post technical reasons why it cannot be done; you posted specs that are, irrelevant.

Post the technical reasons why it can be done for Apple in 2006 time period.

What can be done and extracting effective performance are different things.
Apple did try to a build G5 laptop. It lost against a dual core Yonah based laptop.

Have you factored in the design and fabrication issues with PowerPC 970 MP during 2006? Did it arrive on time?

Are you going to claim fabrication issues are not technical issue?

Quote:

OpenCL is irrelevant.

OpenCL relevant for Apple.

Quote:

This makes no sense. I give up.

So, you asked for technical reasons while not being serious?

Please be consistent in your comments.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jun-2008 at 12:52 AM.

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@Hammer

Hammer, there is no point in continuing to reply to your posts because you continually twist my words, and head off in other, non-related, pseudo-discussions. You continue to fail to answer questions, responding instead with other non-related facts. This is why I said "this makes no sense. I give up." There was simply no link between what I wrote, and your response.

Good bye.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 28-Jun-2008 at 12:51 AM.

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@Hans

Refer to
To compare, obviously only for games, but how much does does a 4GHz quad core PC cost? Can even PC's run at 4000MHz yet? Looks like PowerPC isn't too bad at all. Now why weren't Apple using these fast CPUs? Too late for Apple now, c'mon Amiga join IBM and give them an OS!
for the context.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jun-2008 at 12:56 AM.

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@Hammer

No I will not refer to anything. This just proves further that you do not listen. I have already made it clear that I am not continuing this discussion because of this.

Hans

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@Hans

Can't follow a thread? Have you assembled a laptop before?

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jun-2008 at 02:08 AM.

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