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      /  Commodore USA, In Conclusion
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tommywright 
Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 22-Apr-2012 19:39:44
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jan-2010
Posts: 359
From: Asheville, NC

I was honestly on the fence about CUSA in the beginning. When they released the C64x, I had some real faith in them because the breadbox was very cool looking. Even though it didn't run anything "Amiga" OS-wise, it didn't bother me because it looked like a C64. When they came out stating that these were going to be Linux specific machines, I was actually a bit excited because honestly, I'm a big Linux fan. I pictured something like System 76 who is loved and embrassed by the Linux community and often gives back with Open-Source drivers and such.

As of recently however, and after really looking at this Amiga Mini thing and their A1000 (sorta clone), and also after seeing how Barry responds to his customers on his own forum (blasting them and then kicking them off), I see no hope for this company. I actually feel sorry for Leo because I think his heart is in the right place... hell maybe Barry's is also but he's just so brash and angry toward customers and potential customers that it makes him incredibly unlikable.

...but the point of this post is to talk about why they fail so miserably as a computer company.

Operating System:
Again, I'm a huge Linux fan, so CUSA choosing Linux as an OS seemed like a great idea to me. Linux today very much reminds me of Amiga in 1990. It's a great OS that runs circles around Windows in almost every way and the Open Source movement is just amazing. From Makerbots to Ubuntu and Blender, I truely believe that Open Source is the future of technology because we don't have to rely on giant, multi-billion dollar companies to make product and software decisions for us anymore (but that's another soapbox).

So CUSA release "Commodore OS". What? You made your own distro? How bold! How exciting! How.... wait a second, this is Linux Mint.. not only is this Linux Mint but it's a really crappy version of Linux Mint. There is a reason we have a software Package Manager in Mint... it's because if you add all the software in the distro, it becomes crazy unruly in size and install and people won't use 90% of the software anyway. Also, adding ALL the bells and whistles in Compiz is just obnoxious. What makes distros like Mint so cool is that you get to customize it to your workflow. All the COS distro does it take Linux Mint with Compiz and turns on all the fluff (which most adults tend to avoid).

It would be much better to use Mint or Ubuntu as they are but with support... real support like System 76 does. Make drivers and software to support your hardware and of course, make it Open Source. That's the power of that community. If you don't support Open Source then don't even bother using Linux.... you'll just be seen as someone taking advantage of the "Free" part which is not the point of Open Source. It's "Free" as in Freedom!

Commodore-Amiga.org
Once again, I'm going to talk about freedom. Claiming to be a supporter of Open Source software and then having an extremely censored forum to post on goes against everything that Open Source stands for. Commodore-Amiga.org is the China of open forums. It is regulated with an iron fist. Any post questioning the decision of CUSA tends to be quickly locked or deleted and people involved tend to just "disappear" from the forum.

There is something else that bothers me about the forum. It is the least active Amiga forum that I visit (by far)... which makes me seriously question the user stats (the number of online people there). Are they making those numbers up? I bet there aren't 3 posts a day on that forum yet it shows hundreds of onlookers. Is this accurate? I have no idea but it is strange and this company has been known to fudge things in the past.

One of the craziest things about the forum is reading Barry's replies to customers. I don't think he understands that these people are the people that are going to make or break his business because he treats them with a kind of distain I've never seen from a business owner before. Does Barry think that having a Steve Jobs personality is going to make him a successful business owner? I'm not sure but it's quite disturbing.

Commodore Amiga Mini
I don't even know what to say about this product. It feels like CUSA believes that any product with the name "Commodore Amiga" will sell well no matter what it is or how much it will cost. Don't they read the posts people make in the news forums? How can they see this as a successful venture? I just don't understand.

CUSA Self Image
CUSA tries so hard to make themselves look legitimate that they end up looking foolish. We've seen this MANY times now. Why try and make yourselves out to be something you are not unless you are purposely trying to mislead customers. Is this in fact what they are attempting to do or is this Barry saying "I'm big and important"? I don't understand the need to be perceived as a large corporation. There is nothing wrong with being small... it's actually very popular to be small and hip in the tech industry right now. The only result of their attempt to deceive is to be seen as deceptive.

Chances of Survival
At current course, not a snowball's chance in hell. I can see no way that this company will be embrassed by anyone other than the incredibly niave. Unless they make drastic changes to their business plan (and quickly), I predict that they will be completely gone within 5 years.

I realize that people have been talking about CUSA for awhile now but I tend to not read those threads because people get emotional about anything Amiga and I wanted to come to my own conclusion about this particular company... so I'm sorry if this is a repeat of what others have said. I am non-partial to any Amiga camp at the moment (I do not consider CUSA as an Amiga Camp by the way... only AOS, MOS and Aros). I actually feel that all the current Amiga camps act with great poise and professionalism when it comes to business and customers. I'm very impressed with them.


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vox 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 24-Apr-2012 19:53:26
#2 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@tommywright

Add to that one fair review In MicroMart UK

from A.org
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=61338&highlight=amigaone+x1000



More reviews like that and they might even help real Amiga.

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klx300r 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 25-Apr-2012 13:29:15
#3 ]
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Posts: 3791
From: Toronto, Canada


the article is actually spot on, thanks for posting. The author is obviously an Amiga fan

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TheAMIgaOne 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 17:14:04
#4 ]
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Joined: 10-Jan-2004
Posts: 776
From: United Kingdom

@klx300r

I love the bit saying 'Its no different than a HP Laptop bought from Tesco'

I once owned a HP laplop bought from Tesco, which I used to make AmigaOS software on lol :)

Good article, defiantly an AmigaOS4 supporter :)

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SpaceDruid 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 26-Apr-2012 19:31:08
#5 ]
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Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@vox

The sad thing is (to me anyway), had Amiga/Eyetech/Hyperion moved with the Hardware times and went the same inevitable chip path Apple did, that might have been a "real" Amiga being reviewed. I would have liked a wee Amiga like that, sat under my TV in the living room. Chip families don't mean anything to the end user, just the product they buy.

But that's a very old argument I've dredged up. I was just feeling nostalgic seeing an Amiga in a magazine being reviewed. I felt like it was still the 1990's...

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vox 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 30-Apr-2012 19:27:11
#6 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@SpaceDruid

http://www.amigamccc.org/journal/1010eric.htm

Quote:
A Commodore USA Amiga? by Eric Schwartz from the AmiTech Gazette, September 2010 It's been a time of curious and unusual developments in the world. Perhaps I should get the more mundane ones out of the way first. My Amiga anniversary animation (AAA?) project proceeds, not slowly, but not all that quickly either. The problem with ambitious projects is one rarely has a good idea how long it will take to finish until they are elbow deep in it. I'm still not too sure myself, but at least I have some mostly-final clips to show for it, and I'll be bringing them with me to this month's meeting. Hopefully they aren't too embarrassing. Recently (actually a couple months ago) I completed a short interview, which appears in the recent issue 80 of Retro Gamer magazine. I've done similar interviews in the past with various Amiga magazines, and they usually come out about the same---once I see the final version in print, I find it's been hacked to the bone by the editors. Sometimes it's merely some trimming to best fit the page, others seem to change the entire tone of my words. This time it was closer to the former, but a lot of text was sacrificed regardless. Having these kinds of first-hand experiences always force me to wonder what happens in other interview articles I've read. Is what I'm reading even close to what was actually written or said? Am I missing out on some juicy tidbit or insight because another photo or advertisement had to fit on the page? Is the person interviewed actually anything like the tone presented in the article? It makes it difficult to trust what I read. I guess there's a bias to the media wherever you go, whether in pundit-laden news or a simple interview. In the Amiga realm, there is a (more or less) newcomer to the stage: Commodore USA (at least that's what this Barry Altman guy calls it) is following up upon their Commodore PC (basically an all-in-one keyboard PC including a C64 emulator, that suggests the design of the original) is planning to release a Commodore Amiga PC along the same lines. They say they have licensed the Amiga name (from whomever has the authority to do that now, possibly Bill McEwen), and the system(s) will use the AROS open source operating system. Not too surprisingly, Hyperion Software is apparently not happy about this, as these Commodore Amiga systems might distract from their interests in selling the Amiga OS4 and the eventual upcoming Amiga X1000 hardware. Normally I wouldn't care too much about all this, as I doubt there's any such thing as bad Amiga exposure at this point, and the Commodore USA and Hyperion/A-EON Amiga systems appear to cater to different audiences. The downside seems to be an apparent sleazy quality to the C-USA CEO. There seems to be a pattern of announcing and even producing without making sure the legal i's are dotted and t's crossed. For one, it's been uncertain whether C-USA actually had legally licensed the Commodore trademarks or not, and design artwork related to their upcoming Amiga system was said to be used without obtaining permission from the original artist. To top it off, Barry the CEO has a nasty habit of posting very unprofessional attacks at anyone if not everyone who is uncomplimentary to C-USA or its products. Perhaps he's just trying to be an Internet-age Jack Tramiel, but it does not inspire confidence. I guess all that can be done is to see how it all plays out, find out who sues who, and who comes out the winner. I would like to say that we win no matter who loses, but I'm not sure of that at all. I guess I can wish for the least objectionable possible outcome, anyway.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 1-May-2012 10:37:45
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@vox
Drudging up perceptions of Commodore USA written by Eric Schwartz in September 2010(when we'd only just obtained the trademarks) as some form of valid argument in 2012 is quite lame.
Despite what you might personally think we've achieved quite a lot since then.
Also would you mind providing me with the name of the magazine that article is from so I can explain our side of the story and correct some of their misconceptions?
Just because it is print doesn't make it right.

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vox 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 2-May-2012 9:52:27
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@BigBentheAussie

Peoples perception at the time of original announce
linked to what is product surely do count. I don`t see much
progress in two years: no new software, no new cases,
no new real alliances, just same exploit line continues. No new
employees that have some IT knowledge or development outsourcing.

Surely, it would be interesting to hear Mr. Swartz`s opinion
of new "Amiga" now.

About the magazine, I don`t wish to support your PR campaign (with rude answers
and legal threats) as I find the review excellent and insightful and an exercise in independent journalism and professional review.

Last edited by vox on 02-May-2012 at 09:56 AM.

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persia 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 2-May-2012 13:12:41
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@vox

I do tire of the Barron's arrogance. He's putting together PCs in China out of stock parts. His only "original" product is a modernised versus of a 30 year old computer that neither he nor his company had anything to do with.

I owned a computer shop for almost a decade, I and my staff put together thousands of PCs out of stock parts. It's not that hard. I never pretended to be the next Apple or even the next Harvey Norman.

He's skinned an old Linux distro and filled it with bloat, and again makes claim to being the next Apple. There ere a hundred other distros out there where the makers put considerably more work into them. AND he doesn't really want to help the Mint/Ubuntu/Debian community that created his "better than Apple" OS!

Baron, Steve Jobs was arrogant,but he also had a vision, a dream which pushed him along the path. There's no vision in Commodore OS Vision. There's no vision in C=USA.

The thing I have to thank him for though is finally putting the nail in the Amiga coffin, there is no Amiga return to the mainstream, no Amiga return to rule the computer world. I will now be happy with my classic Amigas, my UAE setup. my AROS VM. There's no pressure, it's all just pure fun. It's a hobby and I am more than happy with that.

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tommywright 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 4-May-2012 21:41:04
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Jan-2010
Posts: 359
From: Asheville, NC

@persia

Quote:
The thing I have to thank him for though is finally putting the nail in the Amiga coffin, there is no Amiga return to the mainstream, no Amiga return to rule the computer world. I will now be happy with my classic Amigas, my UAE setup. my AROS VM. There's no pressure, it's all just pure fun. It's a hobby and I am more than happy with that.


Dude... well said.

CUSA is more than welcome to make money off the name that they purchased. I wish them well... but I also wish they were something else.. something more. I guess that was the dream of Commodore Amiga coming back and kicking some ####.


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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 5-May-2012 0:37:05
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@persia

You have summed it up perfectly.

I too wroked in a local computer shop for a while. We would build computers for customers then obviously charge a slight premium for building it. But not the crazy amounts that CUSA are asking for.

The latest of their rebadging is the VIC Mini. It's a Zotac Giga that can be bought from Amazon for 603 (Amazon) and sold by CUSA for $995.

Oddly enough no barebones though..... Oh wait ofcourse not as it's a simple rebadge....

Which makes me wonder what sort of value your getting from this...

But that me just complaining.

zotac

Last edited by CritAnime on 05-May-2012 at 12:49 AM.
Last edited by CritAnime on 05-May-2012 at 12:47 AM.
Last edited by CritAnime on 05-May-2012 at 12:46 AM.
Last edited by CritAnime on 05-May-2012 at 12:45 AM.

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 11-May-2012 17:35:04
#12 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

Those of you who talked about the computer business here above, how much does the business today? They sold all over the world?
Published their news in lots of computer magazines around the world?
Did they spend a million dollars in developing their own computer cases?
They developed their own Linux distro?
They did all this in a year or two?

I just wonder?

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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 11-May-2012 22:39:00
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@linnar

Quote:
Those of you who talked about the computer business here above, how much does the business today? They sold all over the world?

Well the person I worked for shut his shop down because he retired. Since then I have worked in nursing. But there is a PC store still open in the town and I live in and thats been open since atleast 1999 and it's still selling PC's and still doing very well and sells computer of similar and better specs than Commodore USA for a lot cheaper.

Do they sell world wide? Dunno i will ask them the next time I go in. ;)

Quote:
Published their news in lots of computer magazines around the world?

As for the news articles...

Have you read some of them? because they are either the same regurgitated article, some toung-in-cheak jab at them or, as the image above, question them outright. If it wasn't for social media I doubt we would be hearing as much about them.

Quote:
Did they spend a million dollars in developing their own computer cases?

Millions on a computer case? As far as I am aware the only case they have "developed" is the C64x case. And then they have copied the C64 case and modfied it to fit a mini itx board. Although people have done this with original C64 cases before CUSA were knocking around. So take from that what you will.

All the other case are cust commodity cases they have bought in bulk and had Commodore and amiga logo's put on. I know the "Amiga" mini case has enteched Amiga logo on it. But thats something they are getting the ODM/OEM to do. Or maybe a sub-contractor to do at a push.

Quote:
They developed their own Linux distro?

Yes I did take a whack at making a Linux distro with some friends back when I was at college. Yes it's difficult if your making huge changes to base system. However COS is a collection of themes, scripts and bloat. I know there is just Leo working on it but I wouldn't consider it a stand alone distro and I would still consider it Mint really.

Quote:
They did all this in a year or two?

Well I have been keeping a track of this for the last two years myself. Back when they were selling the Pheonix (Which became their first bit of redunant hardware when it was renamed Vic Pro and ditched a few months after going on sale) and the Amigo. To be honest I don't see anything different from what they do to my local indipendent PC store. Except for the brands.

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 14-May-2012 10:20:14
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@CritAnime

Quote:

Quote:
Did they spend a million dollars in developing their own computer cases?

Millions on a computer case? As far as I am aware the only case they have "developed" is the C64x case. And then they have copied the C64 case and modfied it to fit a mini itx board. Although people have done this with original C64 cases before CUSA were knocking around. So take from that what you will.

No, it's not a copy of the old C64! C64x is not the same dimensions. It is a retroversion. That means it resemble the C64, but not that it is accurate. Place two side by side you will see that no dimensions are the same.
The keyboard is mounted in the C64x is designed with click buttons. According to Barry only cost keyboard plenty of money. He mentioned some time a sum but I do not remember the amount. has for me it was over $ 1 million.

What amount than is it is a lot of money for a start up a little computer company. I think no "garage shop" could do it.

Vic series currently uses existing all in one computers. It is to quickly get up and running and to keep prices down. Vic-series should be low-cost Commodore computers, and then it might be better that someone in China assembles the. In the future, Commodore, in all likelihood to use your own design is also on the Vic series.

Remember that they just started and with the ambition to become a worldwide company.
It is opposed to sitting in the basement and screw together noname computers with the ambition to sell to customers passing by on the street.

The prices for Commodore computers is high. It is partly a chosen price policy to also use the price as part of quality thinking of the customer. It is an established ploy to raise the quality feel.

I tor, however, that the Commodore will be lowering prices when sales reached higher than today.

=
I think it's total failure to compare with "garage shop" or small store that sells noname computers!

Last edited by linnar on 14-May-2012 at 10:23 AM.

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vox 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 14-May-2012 17:45:07
#15 ]
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Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@linnar

Quote:
The prices for Commodore computers is high. It is partly a chosen price policy to also use the price as part of quality thinking of the customer. It is an established ploy to raise the quality feel.


Try advertising that. How is that quality thinking visible?

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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 14-May-2012 18:57:53
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

Its like premium pricing. They are making the pricing high to give the impression of buying into a premium brand. Lots do it like sony and such. You could also say there could be some decoy pricing invloved as the Amiga is still priced relatively high so some people will feel they are getting a better deal out of say the Vic range.

Obviously licensing prices have to be included. But in the case of the Vic Mini I can't see it been $300 more. Just my view.

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 15-May-2012 11:38:15
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@CritAnime

Quote:

CritAnime wrote:
Its like premium pricing. They are making the pricing high to give the impression of buying into a premium brand. Lots do it like sony and such. You could also say there could be some decoy pricing invloved as the Amiga is still priced relatively high so some people will feel they are getting a better deal out of say the Vic range.

Obviously licensing prices have to be included. But in the case of the Vic Mini I can't see it been $300 more. Just my view.

Exactly so!

The fidelity is very common with most pricing to show difference between products, though it is the same product with different looks.
Speaker cables are afraid the example. We all know that there is copper in the cables as it will go through the stream. Some manufacturing separator takes up to $ 100.000. for two 3m cable. Those who looked inside know that it is just plain copper.
The high price not only creates a sense of premium for the cables, it also creates a better sound .... It's called the placebo and the high price is the best way to create a placebo.

http://www.transparentcable.com/products/pdf/prices/retail_prices_2012.pdf

Thus, higher price creates a sense of a better product with more status and so on. The computer requires probably also make it look different, but looks great too.

The Commodore is required of them, in addition to good content, they manage to develop attractive products with a high sense of quality that meets the higher price.

It will be interesting to see the next product!

EDIT:
Wrong price for a cable, fixed!

Last edited by linnar on 15-May-2012 at 10:03 PM.
Last edited by linnar on 15-May-2012 at 09:41 PM.
Last edited by linnar on 15-May-2012 at 11:39 AM.

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A1200 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 15-May-2012 14:21:54
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 3086
From: Westhall, UK

@klx300r

Quote:

klx300r wrote:

the article is actually spot on, thanks for posting. The author is obviously an Amiga fan


He sure is! Sven Harvey was THE AmigaOne dealer back in the day, trading as Stellar Dreams. He often used to crowbar an Amiga story into his editorial at Micro Mart. :)

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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 15-May-2012 14:53:10
#19 ]
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Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@linnar
I can't help but think that in you arguments for Commodore USA you make more of an argument against them...

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA, In Conclusion
Posted on 15-May-2012 21:57:17
#20 ]
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Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@CritAnime

You mean my comparison with cables and placebo?

My purpose was to explain that some products contain more than what it really contains, and so it is with all premium products.
I can buy a Chinese car for a very low price that can get me to work in the morning. Yet I buy a 5 times more expensive car that takes me to work. Why? Well, because a product contains not only the product itself, it also includes a lifestyle, design, and a soul. All this together creates something that gives me an added value in life. Placebo? Yes, of course it is! But as long as I feel good and happy with my product, I will buy it.
That is what the company that manufactures premium products are able to build into their products. Price is important because it must reflect the level of premium.
That is what the Commodore trying to do, build a premium brand and the brand is "Amiga".

Therefore, the Commodore case with the label "Amiga" to be more expensive than other computers with the same con, but without the history and premium sound.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
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Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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