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ssolie 
AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 7:28:41
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

If you have any questions or need clarification on anything I may have said at AmiWest 2012 please post here.

I know from past years a lot of people have misunderstood and misquoted me so I want to take this opportunity to set the record straight.

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Phantom 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 7:31:02
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2007
Posts: 2047
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Hi. I read on another thread here that the netbook project is still under progress. Are there more details news about that?

Last edited by Phantom on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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Spirantho 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 7:36:07
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@ssolie

For myself:

1) The netbook was supposed to be available 2Q 2012, I believe. There has been no news at all - it'd be nice to just have a clue given as to the progress. Not an E.T.A. but just a "there's been a hold up because ...." kind of thing, so we know it's still happening, and maybe a little bit wiser as to why we've heard or seen nothing.

2) I - and many others - thought that the primary purpose of Gallium was to replace the outdated API of Warp3D, and that this was, along with SMP, the main attraction of 4.2. It seems... odd, shall we say, to be developing RadeonHD drivers for Warp3D when the whole thing is apparently going to be mothballed next year anyway. The Friedens have stated that Gallium is still going ahead as planned, which implies that Hans is going to do a lot of work that'll be obsolete before or soon after it's completed. What is the future for Warp3D - do we really still need it at all except for legacy apps? Would it not be better to write a Warp3D API compatibility layer for Gallium, and concetrate on that?

I'm probably just misunderstanding various bits, so please any clarification would be great! Especially as I suspect I'm not the only person with these concerns.

Thanks!

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KimmoK 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 7:37:58
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5210
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

I would like to see a summary of news / announcements made on AmiWest.

So, far, from threads, I figure there's no real (positive news) except what A-Eon has given (LibreOffice and Warp3D).

We know Gallium3D exist for AOS4, but mainly in SW render mode. Was it shown at all in AmiWest?
Was SMP demonstrated at AmiWest?
Was Netbook demonstrated at AmiWest?
No news about new HW projects?
No xorro devices appearing?

It's a little bit too easy to draw conclusion that AOS4 R&D is either proceeding very slowly or there is some major rework being done. Rework that put's on hold any intermediate releases etc...

Then if it is the case of major rework of AOS4 ... it would be good to know some timeframes or estimates when we hear more about AOS4.2 core features & release.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:48 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:38 AM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 7:54:35
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3499
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Thank you Steven, for given us the opportunity of ask for clarifications.

I was disappointed by the following:

"Steve Sollie made it perfectly clear that there will never be any "collaboration" with MorphOS (or AROS) as he said basically what benefit or reward would that be to Hyperion..."

Don't know how much is true about that. Personally i think that both Aros and Mos users share the same roots. Those "amigans" are people that have moved to another platform due to the several problems the platform itself faced in the past. They still "amigans" and i really hope (as many other) that in some way there will be a sort of union/reintegration by all parties.


Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 22-Oct-2012 at 07:56 AM.

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AmiDog 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 8:04:25
#6 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2004
Posts: 917
From: Kumla, Sweden

@ssolie

Once upon a time there was a company (or two) who stated they wont announce anything, and especially not give ETAs, until the product/feature was ready to ship. The reason being the moaning that follows if the ETAs aren't met.

At AmiWest 2011 that same company made a bunch of annoucements, even giving one or two ETAs. A year passed, the ETAs weren't met, and still there's nothing to be told?

I know sometimes things happend which are out of your control. I do code for a living, and sometimes I screw up when making an estimate, sometimes a third party screws up. Everyone knows this can happend, and as long as I keep people informed about the situation, there are rarely any complaints. If I would have hidden silently under a rock (like a certain company) I would have been fired years ago... Why not keep your (potential) customers informed about the situation?

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danwood 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 8:07:28
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@ssolie

A netbook update would be great, really that was my main interest in Amiwest this year, very disappointing to not even hear a mention of it.

I spoke to some attendees via IRC and one of them said any mention of the netbook at the banquet was just met with laughter and vagueness.

Last edited by danwood on 22-Oct-2012 at 08:09 AM.

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corto 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 8:30:00
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2004
Posts: 341
From: Grenoble (France)


ssolie: Thanks, Steven. What you propose is the right way because there is too much speculation, as usual in forums (due to humans, not only amigans). Personally, I was waiting for news and reports but without expecting anything special (no clear idea about could be announced or not), keeping the surprise.

I understand some things can't be announced yet but after all, it was told/known AmiWest was a major event, so some news were expected. My question is about the roadmap : it was at the agenda of the week-end, but "rumours" said that very few was learned about it (a roadmap with all information not shareable, confidential). So could you tell more about the roadmap?

I am interested by answers to Kimmok, that summarize all.

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 9:32:43
#9 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1214
From: Athens/Greece

@ssolie

I am a famous impersonator.. "hahaha, hehehe", can you guess who am I?

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 22-Oct-2012 at 09:42 AM.

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OldAmigan 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 9:53:38
#10 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 672
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@Cool_amigaN

Snoopy?

The Laughing Policeman?

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 9:55:29
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1214
From: Athens/Greece

@OldAmigan

Close enough, unfortunately not correct though.

However you can guess as many times as you want :)

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Spirantho 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 10:03:14
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote:
@ssolie

I am a famous impersonator.. "hahaha, hehehe", can you guess who am I?


David Bowie, perchance?

Edit: But can we keep on topic please? :)

Last edited by Spirantho on 22-Oct-2012 at 10:03 AM.

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Amigo1 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 10:15:06
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1582
From: the Clouds

@ssolie

Hello,

I liked the bit about "the users should tell where to go (with the OS) from here".

I remember and it's interesting to note, years ago many users made lists about what they wanted to have integrated in the OS, and in general the answer was something like "we (developers at Hyperion) know -same as you- what is needed to be added to the OS, but basic and important things have to be integrated first, and we lack the people power, so development moves ahead slowly".
Now, one of the important things which had to be integrated first, was a new Graphics systems, a new shell/CLI and new printing system. None of those havsr made it to the users, yet we shall all start to tell again what new features we would like to have in the OS?

I may see it the wrong way, but IMO the users want advancements in the OS because the wide spread opinion, is the OS lacks so many things in respect of main stream OS so that no Coder/developer wants jump in OS development. And even porting seems quite difficult.
How long has it taken to have Timberwolf ready, how long will it take for LibreOffice since all previous attempts have failed (ooKids and OpenOffice).

I really don't envy your position Steve, You being the only spokesperson for Hyperion and having to take all the bashing, complaints and criticism. I may imagine You wanted to tell more at the show, and in the last minute someone told You not to.

I'd like some clarification about the update-scheme, will they be incremental? What price point has Ben Hermans hinted You? Will the ReadMe list all the changes/new features or just something vague?

It's good AmiWest is over; we got through it with not too many blesses, after all..

thanx for reading and have a nice day and patience to go through all the other posts

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Boot_WB 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 10:43:03
#14 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@ssolie

I appreciate you're in a difficult spot here Steven (public face, but not deciding what info to release), but this is the position you've accepted as project lead and PR spokesperson for Hyperion.
Imho, customers who have paid out $3K+ for a new system deserve better than "Err, yeah. No comment. haha" with regard to when those systems will be fully supported.
As PR person, I would think that you should be demanding the same within Hyperion.

As a former OS4 user (and prospective future one) this lack of communication informs my purchasing decisions with respect to the netboook. If I'd not moved jobs 3 years ago (when X1K betatester program was starting) I would have been one of the X1K betatesters/customers.

Tranparency in what is being worked on would help a lot. People understand that projects get delayed, reworked, and take time. This is life. Yes, there'll be criticism on the forums, but to paraphrase one of the Frieden brothers "I don't see the problem. If you don't like it, don't read it."
__________________________________

So far we have had talk of Warp3D for RadeonHD and a LibreOffice port (both from A-Eon).

What, if anything, was actually announced/presented/shown by Hyperion?
What did Hyperion bring to the party this year?

Aside from:
Where is the netbook?
What is the progress on SMP (ETA for release?)?
What is the progress on Gallium (ETA for release?)?
What is the progress on supporting the X1000 onboard peripherals?

I think we'd all like to know:
What is Hyperion concentrating on wrt OS4.x?
What responsibilities have been farmed out to OEMs? (eg on-board peripheral driver support)
This would help users to focus their expectations on the correct parties (ie no point asking Hyperion for driver support if ACube/A-Eon are responsible for development).
This would also give users a REALISTIC idea of where development is going, and in which areas to expect improvement over time.

Also, where is the netbook? The silence is deafening on that one.
__________________________________________________

Given the above, unless there is full support for the Netbook hardware at the time of release, I don't think I'll be bothering.
Waiting around in an information void for a couple of years on half-hearted empty promises of support from Hyperion (Sam460, X1000) doesn't sound much like "when computing was fun" to me.

Sorry, but that's the state of play as I see it at the moment, and I'd rather be honest about how I see things (with the hope that this will be informative) than politely not mention the elephant in the room.

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Frags 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 10:58:04
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote:
@ssolie

I am a famous impersonator.. "hahaha, hehehe", can you guess who am I?


Tommy Cooper?

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samo79 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 11:13:41
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 13-Feb-2003
Posts: 3447
From: Italy, Perugia

@ssolie

Hi Steven, some questions:

- Trevor talk about a new Warp3D implementation for the recent HD cards, for what i understand he support this project with a financial assistance, so my question is:

- These new drivers will be released free of charge for the entire OS4 community in a future update of AmigaOS, or initially it will be availible for free only for the X1000 users ?

For example I have a SAM440, can i be sure buying a new RadeonHD card without the "fear" to pay extra money for the upcoming Warp3D drivers ?

- LibreOffice is under development and this is good altrough i'm still a bit skeptical about the final result, so my question is: why (for example) not put some money into the alfkil'QT project instead ?

This would give to AmigaOS4 an entire new framework that can give us many new applications easily including modern office suites with a relative efforts

What is your opinion about QT ?

More question to come eventually

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Hypex 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 13:21:30
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 10924
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Boot_WB

Quote:
Hyperion (Sam460, X1000) doesn't sound much like "when computing was fun" to me.


That's why it is past tense.

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Muffin 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 13:56:47
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 114
From: Sweden

@samo79

Quote:
This would give to AmigaOS4 an entire new framework that can give us many new applications easily including modern office suites with a relative efforts What is your opinion about QT ?


This is a good question, it's sad to see so little effort being made to support developers with documentation/education material as well as tools and framework(developer portal).

This is the most important area that needs attention(apart from securing the Amiga trademark) imho. QT would be an important framework to have and also the Creator IDE. Enabling rapid development with modern UI possibilities (QML etc).

To quote a certain person of who we do not mention by name: "Developers Developers Developers Developers !"

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Trixie 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 14:14:25
#19 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2078
From: Czech Republic

@Muffin

Quote:
it's sad to see so little effort being made to support developers with documentation/education material as well as tools and framework(developer portal).

And yet the Amiga Documentation Wiki is the biggest effort in two decades to support developers!

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asymetrix 
Re: AmiWest 2012 clarifications
Posted on 22-Oct-2012 14:32:15
#20 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 868
From: United Kingdom

@ssolie

You said in your speech Q and A, in reply to a users question whether Datatypes can be used to play/stream Youtube videos. Your answer was no.

However their could be a solution.

VLC can easily stream youtube videos, if its youtube decoder is uptodate with Youtubes changes.

VLC -> lua -> playlist->youtube.luac file

(an unencoded youtube.lua file can be used in its place)

more info here : http://forum.videolan.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89164

Once youtube is streaming/playing correctly , on can redirect / capture the feed in VLC by instead of selecting play network file, select stream or convert.

This actually streams and saves the file, so can this file not be sent to datatypes once VLC done all the work ?

Can one imagine what could be done if all apps had a streaming FEED feature while in use and then just use VLC to connect to that feed to record.

VLC does alot of things..

Does this interest the OS4 team ?


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