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Spectre660
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 10:26:52
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Elite Member |
Joined: 4-Jun-2005 Posts: 3918
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| Anyway A-Eon now own DvPlayer and Tunenet. Two programs that would be affected by the FPU emulation speed. So special SPE floating point versions of these should not be a problem. Most other type of programs should not be affected based on the Linux exprience .
Last edited by Spectre660 on 19-Oct-2015 at 10:28 AM.
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Seiya
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 10:31:02
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Super Member |
Joined: 19-Aug-2006 Posts: 1475
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| @Spectre660 But games and computers/consoles emulation could be have several problems with this SPE unit.
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eder
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:43:49
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Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 280
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| @OlafS25
How can something be slow, yet not tested |
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iggy
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:49:14
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Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
special SPE floating point versions... |
So we can expect some specialized binaries? |
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OlafS25
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:50:06
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Joined: 12-May-2010 Posts: 6431
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| @eder
in software you can also test parts of it, f.e. you can define test cases that run against routines to see if there are problems. As I understand it not yet integrated in AmigaOS because AmigaOS is still not running on the hardware. Last edited by OlafS25 on 19-Oct-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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wawa
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 11:50:21
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Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @eder
they have developed the method that they expect to work, yet its expected to be slow. however the developer, or rather managing director, if thats his correct title, hopes it will be possible to accelerate it once the osruns and the patch is actually implemented.
you can read his statement olaf linked to. its quite contrary to "there us no problem os4 already works on the board in question" in my opinion. Last edited by wawa on 19-Oct-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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eder
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:12:56
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Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 280
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| @wawa
So, if/ when this is sorted out and its on par with Sam 460 at 500 £. This is going to be a bargain in OS4 terms ? |
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Spectre660
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:18:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 4-Jun-2005 Posts: 3918
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| @wawa
The "no problem os4 already woks on the board" did not come from Hyperion Management or AmigaOS developers .
It may have been assumed by those saying this because AmigaOS developers have had boards for several months.
Quote:
wawa wrote: @eder
they have developed the method that they expect to work, yet its expected to be slow. however the developer, or rather managing director, if thats his correct title, hopes it will be possible to accelerate it once the osruns and the patch is actually implemented.
you can read his statement olaf linked to. its quite contrary to "there us no problem os4 already works on the board in question" in my opinion. |
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Spectre660
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 12:20:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 4-Jun-2005 Posts: 3918
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| @iggy
Speculation on my part .
Quote:
iggy wrote: @Spectre660
Quote:
special SPE floating point versions... |
So we can expect some specialized binaries? |
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Zylesea
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:14:56
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Elite Member |
Joined: 16-Mar-2004 Posts: 2263
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG | | |
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
Spectre660 wrote: @iggy
Speculation on my part .
Quote:
iggy wrote: @Spectre660
[quote]special SPE floating point versions... |
So we can expect some specialized binaries? |
According to HyperionMP your speculation is wrong
Quote:
HyperionMP: So no need to either recompile the OS (the kernel is obviously always specific for a certain CPU) or any applications.
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Last edited by Zylesea on 19-Oct-2015 at 01:15 PM.
_________________ My programs: via.bckrs.de MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001) |
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broadblues
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:18:17
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Amiga Developer Team |
Joined: 20-Jul-2004 Posts: 4447
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iggy
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 13:57:39
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Joined: 20-Oct-2010 Posts: 1175
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
Oh, I appreciate your candor. In some cases it would be preferable. And using the non-standard fpu incorporated into the e500v2 ought to be a better solution for software that needs an fpu than emulating the standard unit.
At this point, I'm reserving further judgement. A-eon invested the funds and the time creating this board, its going to happen. So, if its price is right and its performance is a least on par with the Samantha, then it was a good investment.
And nothing precludes A-eon from further introductions. After all, the e5500 core I would appear to be so fond of is a dead end. So while I would have preferred a T10XX solution, neither that core or the e500 will be developed further. Only the e6500 core is shown in current roadmaps of future introductions.
We have the X5000, and hopefully one day we may even see an e6500 cored cpu in its successor.
In any case, PPCs ought to be viable for at least 5-10 years, and I'm extremely fond of this ISA...so, OK.
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wawa
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 15:16:55
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
Spectre660 wrote: @wawa
The "no problem os4 already woks on the board" did not come from Hyperion Management or AmigaOS developers .
It may have been assumed by those saying this because AmigaOS developers have had boards for several months. |
right (post #466 here): Quote:
Emulation of FPU instructions will be handled transparently without significant impact on performance. So no need to either recompile the OS (the kernel is obviously always specific for a certain CPU) or any applications.
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you dont even need to speak it out yourself. people will read from your lips, whatever they wish for, and fill in the blanks as facts. and then all is fine again (post #468):
Quote:
;)Last edited by wawa on 19-Oct-2015 at 03:17 PM.
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pavlor
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 18:19:18
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Elite Member |
Joined: 10-Jul-2005 Posts: 9636
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| @OnlyMe
Welcome! |
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cdimauro
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:23:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 4068
From: Germany | | |
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| @Spectre660
Quote:
Spectre660 wrote: Anyway A-Eon now own DvPlayer and Tunenet. Two programs that would be affected by the FPU emulation speed. So special SPE floating point versions of these should not be a problem.
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In this case you need that the kernel supports the 64-bit wide registers of the e500v2, which requires some work.
This also slows down the task switching and the interrupts handling (at least), in general (so not only for the "SPE application").
Quote:
Most other type of programs should not be affected based on the Linux exprience .
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What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)?
@Seiya
Quote:
Seiya wrote: @Spectre660 But games and computers/consoles emulation could be have several problems with this SPE unit.
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Only slowdowns, but they can run without any other problem, since the FPU (and "string" instructions) emulation is totally transparent to the existing software. |
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Everblue
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:24:23
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Cult Member |
Joined: 24-Sep-2006 Posts: 678
From: Amigaland | | |
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| I have asked ACube on their Facebook page about the Sam460CR and they told me they have no intention of stopping its production.
Are we sure ACube are involved with A1222?
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wawa
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:34:07
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Elite Member |
Joined: 21-Jan-2008 Posts: 6259
From: Unknown | | |
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| @Everblue
they might not have an "intention" but if they ocassionally do a 50 units run and the other board will be 10 times more in one run as apparently announced, what will effectively be the outcome? any thoughts? ;) |
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tlosm
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:34:45
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2754
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @cdimauro
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What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)? |
Belive me Spectre660 have more experience than you with linux PPC and PowerPc ..._________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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tlosm
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:37:33
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Elite Member |
Joined: 28-Jul-2012 Posts: 2754
From: Amiga land | | |
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| @Everblue
Why acube have to stop a production to a motherboard for sure less expensive compared the Tabor? 440 will exit from the scene totally and 460cr will be the entry machine _________________ I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB; MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz; #nomorea-eoninmyhome |
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cdimauro
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Re: New hardware: PPC-Motherboard A1222 "Tabor" by Acube/A-eon Posted on 19-Oct-2015 20:49:12
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Elite Member |
Joined: 29-Oct-2012 Posts: 4068
From: Germany | | |
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| @tlosm
Quote:
tlosm wrote: @cdimauro
Quote:
What's your Linux experience? Have you used Debian PowerPC (so, NOT the version with SPE unit support)? |
Belive me Spectre660 have more experience than you with linux PPC and PowerPc ... |
Of course: I've ZERO experience with both.
BTW, there's no need to have experience to discuss about some technical stuff. The FPU (and string instructions) emulation drops down the performance, and it's quite obvious if you know how it works.
The only way to avoid it is to have ad-hoc binaries that natively use the SPE unit (but this require some changes to the o.s., which slows down a bit the execution for all applications).
For 68K FPU emulation it isn't a big problem, because the JIT can be reworked to directly generate SPE instructions, but this requires a consistent change of Pentunia, since it's also written in assembly.
Anyway, I've asked for some information. |
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