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      /  How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
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BigD 
How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 17:36:08
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

Has anyone got much experience of this hardware? I know a lot of people swear by the CompactFlash adapters but these SD card adapters don't seem to be talked about as much. The new card seems to be rated at 10 MB/s for SD transfer which seem alright. It also seems to allow USB Memory Stick usage at 1.2 MB/s! So a few questions:

1) Is it that fast in practice on SCSI-2 controllers?
2) Can you boot from them?
3) Can you connect USB sticks too?
4) Are they worth the asking price of £90+?

Here's a link to the product:

AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6

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A1200 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 18:57:34
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 2976
From: Westhall, UK

@BigD

I think you hear about CF more in IDE adaptor circles because the CF's internal electronics follows the IDE standard so there's nothing complex about the adaptor (less to go wrong).

The board in question I do not know about but doing an eBay search expecting to find the same thing for 1/2 the price turned results that were similarly priced or slightly more expensive and had less "stuff" on the board:

Link.

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amigakit 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 24-Jan-2019 22:21:29
#3 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2331
From: www.amigakit.com

@A1200

The board you link to on EBay is *not* the same thing. It is the V5 board which is much slower than V6.

We also sell V5 at a cheaper price than Ebay sellers:

http://amigakit.amiga.store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=SCSI2sd

@BigD

You can boot from them like a real hard disk. They will not accept USB sticks.

Last edited by amigakit on 24-Jan-2019 at 10:22 PM.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 25-Jan-2019 8:26:18
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@amigakit

Quote:
They will not accept USB sticks.


What's that bit about 1.2 MB/s speed over USB then?

Quote:
Access to the data via USB. The SCSI2SD drives will appear when connected to a PC via USB. This is limited to around 1.2MB/s (USB FS speeds).


Surely it's easier to use a card reader on a PC? It's a shame the USB port can't be hacked to be an input rather than a transfer system for PCs

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Chain-Q 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 25-Jan-2019 9:42:06
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 818
From: Budapest, Hungary

@BigD
I have the same board in my A2000, although I did not buy from AmigaKit but it's the same hardware (I consider buying a second one, this time from AmigaKit, as it's in the EU for a while still, -insert random brexit joke here-). I have it attached to my B2060 SCSI, it replaced an aging 20GB Seagate Barracuda. I would never go back. To answer your questions:

- Almost. Although it doesn't beat my previous HDD in transfer benchmarks, it comes close, and i sense no difference in practical applications. And seek times are instant, so in fact booting is even faster than before.

- Yes. You can partition the SD card with a PC/Mac application to several "virtual" drives, if you have an older SCSI card, which has difficulties accessing larger drives than a certain size, or just keep it as one if you have an up-to-date one. You can boot from any of these if your SCSI card in the Amiga allows booting.

- No. The USB port works the other way around, so it makes the SCSI2SD appear as Mass Storage Device on your PC, so you can copy files to the Amiga without even removing the SD card (note that you need a filesystem for this which will be readable on the PC, or via UAE). You can even plug your Amiga to the PC, install an OS via UAE, then just boot your Amiga, etc...

- It's expensive, but I think yes. At least I can have super easy backups from my Amiga this way, and could even experiment with various operating systems (Linux, NetBSD, etc), without risking to destroy my existing data, because SCSI disks were difficult or very slow to back up, and also hard to come by lately, while SD cards are sold by the kilo everywhere.

TL;DR: It's a very good piece of hardware, I can certainly recommend it. The only weak point seems to be the soldering on the SD card slot. It seems to be a bit weak, so consider 3D printing a frame (there are several ones available online) which then gives rigidity to the plugged in card, so it cannot tear off the slot accidentally. I heard others also had this problem, but you can prevent it.

That's my only issue with it really. There are also semi-regular firmware updates for it, with various improvements (you need a PC to apply these via USB, but it takes only a minute, and it's very user friendly).

Here's a short video of showing it running in my Amiga 2000:

https://twitter.com/chainq/status/954797946918359040

I can recommend SCSI2SD v6 for any SCSI-II controller, all the phase5 controllers, WarpEngine, Amiga4000T SCSI, 4091, etc.

I would recommend the older v5 version for A590, Amiga 3000 mainboard SCSI, A2091, and similar controllers. The v5 is slower, and its USB port is not as versatile (no MSD mode, for example), but it's still a very good device, and for these older controllers it provides an almost perfect match.

Last edited by Chain-Q on 25-Jan-2019 at 10:21 AM.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 26-Jan-2019 22:04:09
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Chain-Q

Thank you, that's really helpful and I'm nearly sold. I will only struggle on with a further old stock mechanical HDD SCSI because the last one failed under warranty so the replacement is free! It's not fun however as my post from the 'sil 3112 - 3114 and problem' thread states....

Written by ghillo
Quote:

Strange that you only see 3Gb on 18, but it may be that with 3.9 you can not see partitions or HD over 4Gb



No, I can see them and attempt to format them but the system hangs as it attempts to format my HD4 partition.

HD0 = 690 MB
HD1 = 200 MB
HD2 = 2GB
HD3 = 50 MB
HD4 = 4 to 5 GB and it fails at around 45 to 55 % complete with a soft reset the only option!

Obviously by soft resetting the system the hard drive is corrupted and I have to low level format the drive (only seems possible in OS3.1) in order to try again. The system is therefore limited to HD0, HD1, HD2 and HD3 currently.

Some Questions...
1) Am I missing a stage in OS3.9?

2) Do I have to click update in HDToolbox to get the >4GB hard drive sizes since the low level format was in OS3.1.

3) Is the problem you have to use Quick Format with >4GB drives rather than Format? I've heard Format is still limited to 4GB without file system support?

A bit confused and tired as only 4 hours sleep trying to figure this out

P.S. My other SCSI drive of the same manufacturer and similar size but different model (in the same machine) has bigger partitions and I don't remember having this problem when I partitioned and formatted that drive with partitions as big as 5 to 9 GB!

... any ideas on what's going wrong or should I view these problems as motivating factors to get my 'miggy recapped and to buy a SCSI2SD V6 eventually?

Last edited by BigD on 26-Jan-2019 at 10:05 PM.

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Chain-Q 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 27-Jan-2019 19:11:31
#7 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 818
From: Budapest, Hungary

@BigD

Your numbers show, - assuming the hardware otherwise works correctly - you hit a 4GB disk size limit either with your SCSI card, or your filesystem you try with. Most probably with your SCSI card.

While newer OS versions fixed 4/8GB limits with the *OS-bundled* scsi.device for most C= IDE and SCSI controllers and the bundled FFS filesystem, it does *NOT* fix issues with 3rd party scsi.devices or filesystems. Which is probably some limitation you run into.

The rest is just waving a dead chicken over something which cannot fundamentally work, because of an underlying problem. A SCSI2SD v6, and using "virtual" 4GB drives on a larger SD card might indeed solve your pains, actually, but it would be interesting to figure out the underlying problem...

What sort of a SCSI controller you try to use?

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 27-Jan-2019 22:37:31
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Chain-Q

It's the A4000T's built in SCSI controller and as I say the other hard drive installed overcame the 4GB limit when I partitioned and formatted that. Did I forget to click update in HDToolbox or something and have you read that you have to use Quick Format not Format to overcome the limitation in OS3.9?

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Chain-Q 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 0:09:57
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 818
From: Budapest, Hungary

@BigD
Yes, I read it, but to be honest, I have no clue how OS3.9 HDToolBox works as I never used it, and I can't remember from the top of my head where to click and when...

With Hard Disks it always make sense to use Quick Format anyway (unless you want to erase all previous data), as the difference between Quick Format and Format is, that Quick Format just makes the filesystem structures necessary, while normal Format zaps just erases all sectors beforehand, which is not necessary to do, unless you want to sure any previous data on the disk is not possible to restore.

Sorry I can't help you further.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 28-Jan-2019 10:39:47
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Chain-Q

Thanks for talking it through with me. 'Quick Format' did the job (what a weird bug in the 'Format' tool)! I tried this after I double checked the SCSI version was correct and the Rom Update was running. This advice seems sound from English Amiga though it wasn't the problem in my case. My SCSI.device version is 43.43.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=43525

Quote:
Tomas
10:07 31 March 2009

You are using scsi.device V40.12 which means the AmigaOS ROM Update is not active. The "Ok" in the check column is wrong in this case. You need scsi.device V43.

Please check the Devs directory if there is a file which is named similar to AmigaOS ROM Update. If there is, please rename it to exactly AmigaOS ROM Update (three words with one space character in between). If there is no such file, please copy it from your OS 3.9 CD.

Also make sure that C:SetPatch is at least version 44. If it is less, then copy it from your OS 3.9 CD.

Finally edit s:startup-sequence and make sure that it runs SetPatch and that it does *not* run NSDPatch (NSDPatch is automatically done by SetPatch V44).

If the SetPatch line contains SKIPROMUPDATES "scsi.device", remove these two words.


Thanks again for reassuring me I was on the right track

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Ferry 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 10-Nov-2019 0:55:31
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2003
Posts: 687
From: Valencia, Spain

@amigakit

I've seen you sell a 25-pin D-SUB FEMALE to 50-pin IDC male (coming soon).

Almost all Amiga SCSI kits or cards, or models with SCSI included (A3000) have a 25-pin D-SUB FEMALE, and female to female won't work. Do you have a 25-pin D-SUB MALE to 50-pin IDC male so the SCSI2SD card can be directly connected to any of these cards/models? With a proper 3D-printed enclosure, that would make it a nice, portable high capacity and high performance device for our old machines.

One more question: I've read that it supports hotswap. Does that mean that the SD card can be swapped on the fly, or does it refers to the card itself, or both?

Last one: termination must be activated by software. Has been the needed software ported to Amiga? If not, would it be too difficult to do? Not that I'm a programmer, but hey, that would be a good project to start with programming/porting, hehe.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Last edited by Ferry on 10-Nov-2019 at 07:46 PM.
Last edited by Ferry on 10-Nov-2019 at 12:56 AM.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 10-Nov-2019 22:49:36
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Thread

Fairly happy with the unit other than no documentation and HDToolbox only seeing a 8Gb SD card as a 1.9Gb SCSI drive! I think all the tools to configure the SD card itself are PC based but I have no idea where to begin. Anyone else have this problem?

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Hypex 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 11-Nov-2019 14:44:09
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9725
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

Does it still happen if you read the drive definitions from HDToolbox to reload the settings? Yes documentation would help. The 3.9 one should be fine.

Also what is your controller and do you know the mask and maxtransfer settings?

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Ferry 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 11-Nov-2019 21:04:18
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2003
Posts: 687
From: Valencia, Spain

@BigD

All downloads and docs available are here:

Codesrc SCSI2SD page

And software is available for Windows, Mac and Linux. I think it has not been ported to Classic Amiga (@chainq mentioned in Twiiter he was thinking about porting it to Morphos, but he's too busy) because it has no USB as standard, and configuration is made via USB port, not SCSI.

All in all, I would have preferred at least a physical termination, so you can activate or deactivate it without the need to plug it to another computer.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 12-Nov-2019 0:30:51
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Hypex

Controller is the A4000T internal SCSI

Mask: 0x7FFFFFFE
Max Transfer: 0x0001FE00

I did try and read the drive settings when installing it the first time. Still showed 1.9 Gb!

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Chain-Q 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 12-Nov-2019 2:04:50
#16 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Jan-2005
Posts: 818
From: Budapest, Hungary

@BigD
Quote:
HDToolbox only seeing a 8Gb SD card as a 1.9Gb SCSI drive! I think all the tools to configure the SD card itself are PC based but I have no idea where to begin. Anyone else have this problem?

You will need to use the that PC configuration software, to setup the SD card to work with the SCSI2SD v6 drive correctly. The configuration software will store the actual device configuration on the last sector of your SD card, including the size of the emulated devices, among others, and the size of your SD card.

Failing to do this - things will run with the default settings, which means a single 2GB drive. Which is what you see in HDToolBox.

Yes, the config software needs a PC (or Mac), and you have to configure the thing over the microUSB connector. There is no way to do this from the Amiga and from the SCSI side currently.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 12-Nov-2019 22:19:33
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Chain-Q / Hypex / Ferry

Thanks for all your help. Got it working with 7.6 Gb now! Messing around with multiple devices on a single SD card was a waste of time so I reinstalled the card on HDToolBox and set everything back up again after using the Util software on the Mac using my Nokia 3310 (2017) USB cable (useful)!

Needs the SCSI-2 setting ticked and the size of SD card selected. This guide was very useful:

http://grimore.org/hardware/amiga/using_scsi2sd_drives

and this for reassurance...

http://forum.amiga.org/index.php?topic=73855.0

I'm still not sure if I should mess with the asynchronous / synchronous speed settings or not although the A4000T SCSI does support asynchronous transfer up to 10 MB/s. Still I think I'm using a Class 6 SD card so it might not matter?

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Hypex 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 13-Nov-2019 12:36:30
#18 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9725
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

That's good you got it going. Strange that the setting needs to be written to the card. Rather than read off the card itself. Being it needs to convert SD protocol to SCSI I would have thought it would support the command to read drive geometry. Does it also show up as type HD?

Your settings looks fairly safe. But your max is set at the IDE max, Without having the manual in front of you it can be hard to look up these settings as there are only random threads. And I haven't found a dedicated database for these values.

Best to confirm with the technical details but this should be fine with the A4000 SCSI controller:
Mask: 0x7FFFFFFF
Max Transfer: Ox00FFFFFF

For asynch you can give it a test. Perhaps best to test with volatile file or a speed test. I don't know what software we have for an integrity test.

Last edited by Hypex on 14-Nov-2019 at 01:37 PM.

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Ferry 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 20-Nov-2019 20:40:56
#19 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2003
Posts: 687
From: Valencia, Spain

@BigD

Thanks a lot for the info, very useful.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

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BigD 
Re: How well does AmigaKit's SCSI2SD V6 board work?
Posted on 21-Nov-2019 10:13:05
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5108
From: UK

@Ferry

You're welcome!

It's a great piece of kit let down by no documentation / software / USB connection cable in the box.

Hopefully this thread helps with the documentation / software problem. I assume that you've all already got Micro-USB to USB cables included with your modern HMD Global - Nokia phones (I still rock a Nokia anyway and I've even got my favourite phone working again the 3220 with the 'mini-rave in your pocket' flashing led side lights ).

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