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      /  The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
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phoenixkonsole 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 8:02:15
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1733
From: Unknown

@cdimauro
now you are painting the world in black and white again.
AFD was originally founded as ANTI EURO CRISIS / ANTI EURO party. It was hijacked than by a right group.. and honestly .. germany is at least 30% right and 60% who don't care about others as long they can live in peace.. As an immigrant / bastard (half german) I have spoken and seen enough through all classes..

Whatever.. you got it wrong.

I would hijack the AFD .. because I can help them with my person.. half immigrant would be a good camouflage ... wouldn't it?

After that comes the grey part .. 2 out of 3 AFD member can be easily put to jail.. why not.. ?
For me it would be just a trojan horse.. come in.. fuck europe, than fuck AFD

World became a better place..

OH AND EUROPE.. this current EUROPE is NSDAP 2.0.
1984 anyone ?
Look what they have done un Ukraine.. how close we came to a war. They tried to implant german biased politicians... play with fire and you get burned.
And now a european Army? Ok.. go on .. USA and Russia are ready to clean the floor.

EUROPE IS NOT MEANT AS WE COME TOGETHER CLUB!
IT IS MEANT AS COUNTERPARTY TO CHINA / USA / RUSSIA

That it.. people don't beliebe in Mankind.. it is just another we f*ck you all ideology.
Just and idelogy ending at european boarders. Meh.. pure uninspired meh.
And the same old farts ruling. Or young "carmouglage" marionettes like in france. (he took my AFD idea just with another party)

Bigest problem:
Politicians are morons.. they decide about stuff they don't know anything about.
But they know always specialists.. mostly 80 years old and social media expert.. sure..

So you need to be creative to f*ck them on their own stage.
And obviously the ANTI EU fractions have the best cards in the moment.. so to be "realistic" the AFD idea seems the most logical and cost effective option.

PLAN B is to speed up production of my ROBOT ARMY.

I am not born to be ruled by dumb a** mo**er*uckers . AND THE LAST VOTING IN GERMANY WAS 100% against MERKEL.. People voting against her.. why is she still dancing around.. Why did FDP deny the voting results and whent back? Hmm.? What is this..

OK come and vote.. oh the result is not as we have thought... hmm.. lets ignore it.

What do they expect? On the long run? What?

Ok.. Back to Amiga.. real world sucks

_________________
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outrun1978 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 8:35:30
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 514
From: Unknown

@Jax

Quote:
We are from the same country, but we have opposite views on the EU. The EU is increasingly resembling Comecon, limiting freedom of speech, only one opinion is right, orders, prohibitions, migrants etc... Sentence "there is no other reasonable alternative" is the way to hell. Brexit is a sample case... The vote did not go well, we will vote again. This time correctly.



Indeed from the UK perspective, its appears perfectly acceptable to ignore the wishes of an electorate that turned out in far higher numbers than they would normally do in a general election and voted to leave the EU by a majority of 1.3 million votes.

The stark reality is that few people have actually changed their minds on this issue and are unlikely to ever do so, so you can run a referendum, call a general election and the reality is that we are still going to end up with the same result. Given that today was supposed to be the day the UK left and we have a Parliament full of self serving clowns most of them who want to remain part of the EU to protect their own vested interests, I seriously worry about what will happen next.










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phoenixkonsole 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 8:46:31
#43 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1733
From: Unknown

@cdimauro
CDU program from 2002
https://www.cdu.de/system/tdf/media/dokumente/regierungsprogramm-02-06-b.pdf?file=1

"Überfremdung" .. Warning about immigrants ...
ah ohhhh ...

Isn't this what ADF does today..

???
The same bastards all over the place..


SO in 2002 nobody declared CDU as right party.. but the same words in 2019 are right ?
: D

I do not forget.

_________________
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thellier 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 10:05:49
#44 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 250
From: Paris

@Jax
Quote:
Brexit is a sample case... The vote did not go well, we will vote again. This time correctly.


Exactly

result=voteforeuropemantra();
while(result != TRUE)
{
result=voteforeuropemantra();
}


I remenber seeing this 3 times
Vote for the European Constitution in France
Vote for CETA in Belgium
Brexit in UK

Also theres is a major asymetry:

European parliament need a majority (that it never reached) for really progressive stuffs like taxing the GAFA or instauring a minimum wage
(This copyright law was an exception and I think it is a good thing for authors/artists/journalists)

But for commercial stuffs like TAFTA that will impact all the european workers/consumers the European Commission is free to negociate in secret as it wants without any vote/controls

For us in France Macron is only a new neo-liberal puppet like a revamped Thatcher or Reagan
Macron was only elected because of "dégagisme" ( meaning a rejection of the political class currently in place )


Alain




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Zylesea 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 14:44:29
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2114
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@phoenixkonsole

While you are fed up with current politics it's not the way to strengthen the right wing. look what the other parties try to do to opose the right wing - it yields nothing but only strengthens the right wing. And before you count to three we haven another 1933...
Each AFD vote strengthens them!

if you want to show your middle finger don't waste your vote on AFD there are plenty alternatives. My suggestion: Piraten or ÖDP. They are not right wing, they are not like the established. They are not destructive, but constructive. They take away your vote from ADF and the established parties!
Also it's easy to get active in teh smaller parties albeit it requires quite some enthusiasm...

_________________
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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 15:45:11
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

If I were UK MP, I would look at my constituency and follow wishes of my voters. If they don´t want Brexit, I would support Remain with all my power (et vice versa). Why should I care for the other voters, when both factions have nearly the same support nationwide? (and no, 52 % is certainly not majority trumping wishes of my voters)

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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 16:02:00
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@Zylesea

There may be other factor prohibiting vote of such parties. Some voters prefer security and rule of law, nearly all major German parties failed in this regard during the European migrant crisis (ignoring obvious problems is a fast way to hell...). Of course, that doesn´t mean AFD is the right choice (far from that), but it may be nearly impossible for some voters to find party best suited for them.

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Jax 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 16:23:59
#48 ]
Member
Joined: 10-May-2018
Posts: 12
From: Czech Republic

@pavlor

Quote:
If I were UK MP, I would look at my constituency and follow wishes of my voters.

Voters' wishes were expressed in a referendum. Democratic referendum. Now it is the task of politicians to follow its result. And yes, 52% is certainly the majority of voters. Unfortunately for you and other "EU democrats".

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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 16:49:11
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@Jax

Quote:
Unfortunately for you and other "EU democrats".


Voters can vote me out of my office in the next elections. However, I somewhat suspect they would be more than content with my above mentioned solution.

In countries like ours, this Brexit fiasco wouldn´t be even possible as any change of constitutional law requires qualified majority (far above 52 % ).

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Jax 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:00:48
#50 ]
Member
Joined: 10-May-2018
Posts: 12
From: Czech Republic

@pavlor

Quote:
In countries like ours, this Brexit fiasco wouldn´t be even possible as any change of constitutional law requires qualified majority (far above 52 % ).

"In countries like ours, this Brexit fiasco wouldn´t be even possible", because in our country everyone is afraid to suggest such a referendum. Because we are stupid and we do not understand such complex things. ;)

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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:13:33
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@Jax

Quote:
because in our country everyone is afraid to suggest such a referendum. Because we are stupid and we do not understand such complex things.


Why referendum? Staying in EU is in our foremost national interest. If people vote Reamain, it is a waste of money. And no one sane could wish Leave. We aren´t UK with dreams about splendid isolation. We are a small country with export oriented economy crucially dependent on the EU market. Leaving EU, we would have become a puppet state begging EU (or Germans, assuming EU is dissolved) for at least some access to their market. Pure madness.

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bison 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 17:39:41
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1290
From: N-Space

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
Politicians are morons.. they decide about stuff they don't know anything about.

s/Politicians/People/g

The underlying problem is more general than it might appear.

_________________
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outrun1978 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 18:02:14
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 514
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
@outrun1978 If I were UK MP, I would look at my constituency and follow wishes of my voters. If they don´t want Brexit, I would support Remain with all my power (et vice versa). Why should I care for the other voters, when both factions have nearly the same support nationwide? (and no, 52 % is certainly not majority trumping wishes of my voters)



And this is precisely exactly why we are in the mess we are today. Too many of the MP's have not been following the wishes of their voters. For your information, a large number of seats around the country have MP's representing them who all want to remain, whilst the electorate in those seats all voted to leave and in most cases by margins in excess of 60%-70% plus.

The only accountability we will have is come the next election we will now aim to get rid of these MP's and have them replaced by an MP that better reflects their electorate's wishes.







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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 18:09:34
#54 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Quote:
The only accountability we will have is come the next election we will now aim to get rid of these MP's and have them replaced by an MP that better reflects their electorate's wishes.


Best solution would be to postpone Brexit (2 months may suffice), make fresh elections and let the people decide!

Don´t blame me if Lib Dems get majority for the first time in 100 years thanks to one seat constituencies and firm anti-Brexit stance.

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Nonefornow 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 29-Mar-2019 23:38:50
#55 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 116
From: Greater Los Angeles Area

@pavlor


pavlor wrote:

Quote:

Best solution would be to postpone Brexit (2 months may suffice), make fresh elections and let the people decide!


The people had decided. Now it the responsibility and obligation of the elected official to implement the will of the people.

On that vein, I want the 2018 World Cup final to be replayed.
I really would like for the team that wears the Amiga Checkered Boing Ball kit to win the match.

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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 30-Mar-2019 0:31:26
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@Nonefornow

Quote:
The people had decided. Now it the responsibility and obligation of the elected official to implement the will of the people.


Well, it is obvious half of the nation sees "will of the people" differently than the other half. Hard decision for all the MPs.


I estimate possible outcome of Brexit is:
50 % no deal (may lead to economic crisis)
30 % no Brexit (may lead to constitutional crisis)
20 % May deal (may lead to implosion of the Tories)


Most probably there will be no deal. If this leads to economic crisis, next government will start negotiation about rejoining the EU.

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outrun1978 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 30-Mar-2019 6:23:06
#57 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 514
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Well, it is obvious half of the nation sees "will of the people" differently than the other half. Hard decision for all the MPs. I estimate possible outcome of Brexit is: 50 % no deal (may lead to economic crisis) 30 % no Brexit (may lead to constitutional crisis) 20 % May deal (may lead to implosion of the Tories) Most probably there will be no deal. If this leads to economic crisis, next government will start negotiation about rejoining the EU.


Sorry to shatter a europhile’s ilusion on this issue, but it’s clear that even the EU’s most ardent supporters have never appreciated that the United Kingdom has always been a tad spectical of the European project and always will be. Our language is full of terms and phrases that highlight our difference from the rest of Europe. People in this country always talk with a picture in their minds that we are outside of the main core looking in.

Had this project remained a free trade bloc on goods and services with restrictions on freedom of movement, then you would see more enthusiasm for the so called project. However the project ultimately wants to see nation states disappear under one banner, which sadly even most remain voters actually don’t fully appreciate nor will they do until it is too late to do anything.

The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and their satellite states in Eastern Europe only worked for a time until the people got fed up and I am sure you are well aware even in your own country of the Czech Republic people for years were never great fans of that system. They too had uprisings which were at times quite violently crushed.

We have been quite lucky so far in the UK that we have wanted change via democratic means without resorting to bloodshed in the streets, but sadly democracy is being seriously undermined here and this will only lead to further problems down the line If our politicians don’t implement that referendum result. Our Government made very clear in official documents they sent out to each household prior to the vote their reasons why they thought we should stay what may happen should we choose to leave. They also very importantly said they would implement whatever we decided.





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pavlor 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 30-Mar-2019 8:50:41
#58 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8963
From: Unknown

@outrun1978

Quote:
ich sadly even most remain voters actually don’t fully appreciate nor will they do until it is too late to do anything.


THIS is core of your problem. Half of your nation doesn´t think there is such problem at all...

Quote:
people for years were never great fans of that system. They too had uprisings which were at times quite violently crushed.


Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia back then) is a special case. There was strong popular support for Communists (got plurality in last competitive elections in 1946) and the Soviet Union after 1945 (considered true ally and liberator, unlike in other Eastern European countries). This sentiment didn´t change much even after 1948, when the party and Soviet advisors instituted rule of terror. In 1968, new party leadership believed communism is the right way and oppression has no place in socialist society. Prague Spring was an attempt to build communist utopia without any political violence, attempt backed by nearly the entire nation. Well, Soviets had another point of view.

So, at least until 1968, Czechs were great fans of that system.

Comparing Comecon/Soviet empire and EU is double edged blade. On the one hand, EU is far more integrated than Comecon ever was, on the other hand, any state can leave without fear of foreign invasion (if their people and leaders are insane enough).

Quote:
but sadly democracy is being seriously undermined here and this will only lead to further problems down the line If our politicians don’t implement that referendum result.


You may vote them out of office. Demand fresh elections, no more lamenting about disdain for the "will of the people". Referendum was not a suicide pact (well, it may look as such from outside of the UK ), voters can decide future of their country at any time.

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outrun1978 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 30-Mar-2019 9:57:04
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 514
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
any state can leave without fear of foreign invasion (if their people and leaders are insane enough).


And this is just resorting to insults now.

Sorry but we have had enough of being called stupid and ignorant by the ruling established elite.

This is the same argument being played across Europe through movements such as the Gilets Jaunes in France Five Star Movement in Italy AFD in Germany and elsewhere and sadly it is not going to disappear.

Except we can’t leave and probably never will because those who run these institutions with their heads in the sand think they are right above everyone else with no room for reform. The system and the forces behind it (corporations and banks) are too simply powerful and lobby hard with their resources to ensure that they get their own way and keep the status quo for their own vested interests.

Elections and the concept of a democracy is seemingly a mirage here, if the people vote against a treaty, the EU mandates simply run the election again and keep running that election until you get the correct result. In some EU States just don’t bother consulting the plebiscite because they are simply just that, uneducated plebs and we in the EU know best.

As a relative newcomer to the European Union you are no doubt being seduced by new infrastructure projects and shiny glass towers, but wait until the money runs out or is diverted elsewhere... like more established members you will soon be changing your tune and opinion on the project.


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dan.hutch 
Re: The Final Version of the EU's Copyright Directive Is the Worst One Yet
Posted on 30-Mar-2019 10:15:20
#60 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2004
Posts: 506
From: United Kingdom

@pavlor

Quote:
Why referendum? Staying in EU is in our foremost national interest.


Not at the cost of ignoring the referendum result which would be massively damaging to trust in politics and democracy in the UK.

Quote:
And no one sane could wish Leave.


I consider myself relatively sane and want to leave.

Quote:
We aren´t UK with dreams about splendid isolation.


I want to see a more efficient and open Britain after we leave the EU. The fastest growing economies are not in the EU they are in outside world, leaving represents an opportunity to engage with them on our own terms rather than terms negotiated with 27 other countries with varying political and economic interests.

Quote:
We are a small country with export oriented economy crucially dependent on the EU market.


Economic growth across the EU is sluggish and has been for years, the way the EU is organised and the number of countries involved makes the organisation too slow and cumbersome to respond to challenge and change. Our economy is simply not dependent on the EU, we should be looking more than ever to the emerging markets in South America, Africa and of course South-East Asia.

Quote:
Leaving EU, we would have become a puppet state begging EU (or Germans, assuming EU is dissolved) for at least some access to their market. Pure madness.


That's why we should leave with no deal, some short term pain perhaps but in the long term a better outcome.

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