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PosterThread
ealm 
Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 30-Mar-2020 22:36:33
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

I've been lurking in these forums on and off over the years, catching up with the latest Amiga news and going through videos with Amiga nostalgia. I had an A500 in the 90's and then an A1200 and I loved them both. Haven't really been using any Amiga much in the last 12+ years though.

I think there are hundreds of thousands of people like me, for whom the Amiga has a place in the heart. But only the biggest fanatics are actively using the platform today and I think there is a way to change that...

As you probably know the NES and PS1 platforms got a revival through the "NES Classic" and "Playstation Classic" consoles – original lookalikes but downsized, without physical media and with a bunch of pre-loaded games.

I think the Amiga community should take note. Not to "copy" the concept and just deliver an emulated, dumbed down Amiga gaming console, but there is still inspiration to be had. This is what I would easily pay up to 500 EUR for:

An A600 look alike (maybe slightly trimmed down in size) loaded with a Vampire standalone card and a built in PSU. Wifi, a HDMI port, two USB ports and/or bluetooth for mice and gamepads/joysticks. Sold with licensed AmigaOS 3.1 and Amikit or similar pre-installed. Preferably also an "app store" with easy access to classic games and software. AROS/Icaros as an optional dualboot.

If this could be achieved I think you'd reach a WAY bigger customer base than any other Amiga hardware since the A1200. But it would require a big investment to pull it all off and get up the production volume enough to be able to get down to a reasonable production price.

If the Amiga community would team up around the Vampire guys, make it happen and then start a kickstarter campaign I think a lot of people like me would pre-order though. Nostalgic people willing to pay for a simple, elegant, original looking plug-n-play Amiga which is still a 100% "real amiga" with every possibility that comes with the platform to dig deeper.

Last edited by ealm on 07-Apr-2020 at 10:53 AM.
Last edited by ealm on 30-Mar-2020 at 10:47 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 0:58:12
#2 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1890
From: Australia

@ealm

Amiga only ever had a small percentage of the userbase/audience of the machines you mentioned.
Also 500 euro is waaaaaay too much for an Amiga-like system. You'd only get a few people who already have an interest paying that much, and even then only a small percentage of people who actually *are* interested would be willing to pay that much.

It's dead. Not coming back in any form.
People just need to accept that and enjoy what remnants remain if that's something they enjoy.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 1:10:04
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2203
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@ealm

IcAros does not work on non-x86 architectures but Caffeine and Aros Vision both work on the Vampire standalone.

I don't think the PPC Amigans will bail on their AmigaOnes nor will MorphOS users buy Vampires until it is remade using an ASIC clocked comparably to their PPC machines. I look forward to the day that it does though.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 1:34:50
#4 ]
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SHADES 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 1:38:17
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 652
From: Melbourne

@ealm

I agree.

The ARM platform is active, low-cost and growing!.
Even Apple is moving to ARM as of next year. They already use their own ARM designs for their tablets and phones so, laptops were the logical next step.

Raspberri Pi 4 is a $50 computer that could easily benifit from a lower memory footprint like Amiga OS.
Things like multi-core need to be addressed in time and possibly user security however, we can learn by the mistakes of the other OS's implementing these things.

The benifits are, easlily produced, cheap and developing hardware. Doing a Transpute/multi-CPU Amiga OS could be a real gain here, if not, even a sinlge core port opens up accessability to anyone with an interest in computing. Like you stated above, cheap, powerful computing is available and doesn't need to be emulated. We need to get off the dying CPU platform and x86 is not the only alternative anymore. ARM is actually cheaper.
Some ARM SoCs have graphics, PCIe, USB 3 all included as well.

Last edited by SHADES on 31-Mar-2020 at 01:39 AM.

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MEGA_RJ_MICAL 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 2:05:54
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Dec-2019
Posts: 209
From: AMIGAWORLD.NET WAS ORIGINALLY FOUNDED BY DAVID DOYLE

@SHADES

Yes! Amiga should transpute!
We need more transputation in our lives.
Transputation in a bčige wedge case.

AND 3D GLOSSY SHADOWED ICONS (warning: requires multi-cpu support)


Bestest regards,
MEGA_RJ_MICAL

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ealm 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 10:04:58
#7 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

Moving hardware platform and evolving is just PPC/AOS4 all over, but would work out even worse a second time after all these years and with an ever smaller fan base. Keeping up with time is not realistic for the Amiga. What is realistic though is to do the best of what we already have and package it in an attractive format for any nostalgics and geeks.

It wouldn't take that much, and with enough quantities it wouldn't have to be too expensive, to do an A600-like box for the Vampire standalone. On top of that it justs needs tweaking and packaging to make it an attractive product, easy to get started with.

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dirkzwager 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 12:07:05
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 9-Aug-2019
Posts: 123
From: Belgium, LImburg, Bilzen

@ealm

I personally also think that a product like the c64 mini and Atari and Sega mini / retro can come out based on the Amiga classic.
After all, the C64 mini came on the market together with Cloanto and who owns Amiga (3.1) ... indeed Cloanto.
It doesn't seem that difficult to me and if the price is right, it will certainly be bought.
I have the Pi 3B + and it works really well. Only 40 Euro.

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OldAmigan 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 13:28:04
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2003
Posts: 617
From: Dumfries, Scotland

@ealm

As people have said, Raspberry Pi.

How about Raspberry Pi 4 running Amibian in an A600/A1200 or A500-alike half-size case with a proper keyboard?

RPi4 costs Ł54 for the 4Gb version and you could fit as many games (or even applications) on an SD card. Bundle a USB Competition Pro joystick and a USB Mouse (with the ticks on it).

You could sell that for much less than your 500 Euros!

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Turrican3 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 13:36:20
#10 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 334
From: Italy

I've been arguing about this for years, so I'll just restate what I think.

There is *no way* (even assuming the rights go to a company with lots of money) a 500 €/$ Amiga can be successful nowadays: that's almost by definition niche territory considering what you can purchase with the same amount of money.

I'm like 99.9% sure the Amiga could however find its own (bigger! and way bigger than any current and past PPC solution) niche if a modernized, native AmigaOS* could run on the Raspberry Pi platform.

Which is decently powerful, extremely cheap, mass produced and widely available. Basically, every plus point that - historically - made Commodore product successful.

Mind you, this does NOT mean we shouldn't pursue a high-end solution. But since resources are extremely small (almost non-existant it could be argued) it would be far more reasonable IMHO to begin expanding the low-end userbase first, which has always been the most successful market anyway.

* = heck, even an AmigaForever-like solution would work as OldAmigan just said (i.e. a Raspberry with a preinstalled AF environment plus a bundled joystick + games, that would basically be the Amiga equivalent of the various recent Nintendo/Sega/Sony mini consoles that have found a certain degree of success on the market), of course this would be a very different approach from the one I've stated before since it would not target current enthusiast market

Last edited by Turrican3 on 31-Mar-2020 at 01:40 PM.
Last edited by Turrican3 on 31-Mar-2020 at 01:40 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 13:54:26
#11 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 584
From: Unknown

@ealm

Quote:


As you probably know the NES and PS1 platforms got a revival through the "NES Classic" and "Playstation Classic" consoles – original lookalikes but downsized, without physical media and with a bunch of pre-loaded games.

I think the Amiga community should take note. Not to "copy" the concept and just deliver an emulated, dumbed down Amiga gaming console, but there is still inspiration to be had.


You can already buy this, maybe not as an all-in-one solution but as discrete parts:
You need an RaspberryPi (as faster as better)
Power Supply and Case (there are a lot of Amiga themed cases around)
And one of those available distros with UAE for Raspberry like Amibian:
https://gunkrist79.wixsite.com/amibian

They should be as legal as a VampireV4 with coffin.

----

If you want you can use an FPGA emulating an Amiga this starts with 100€ for a MiSter and goes up to 500 for a VampireV4, you will still not have an original case and keyboard ...


----

If you are waiting for an 'Amiga' company doing this, you might be wait forever. The ownership of the Amiga brand is a legal minefield. Better name the company Amoeba, Imega, Amigo something like it.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 31-Mar-2020 at 01:57 PM.

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ealm 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 14:01:34
#12 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-Jun-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

A C64 Classic-like solution with an ARM cpu emulating an Amiga in a miniature A600 would probably do just fine. Packed with games and two joysticks.

But it wouldn't interest me. I can already emulate the Amiga on my Mac if I want. The only thing that could bring me back would be "the real deal" but in a smart and retro package that makes it more easily accessible than current hardware solutions. Make the product easy enough to set up and get started and you'll widen your audience considerably. Which means production volumes goes up and price down.

Last edited by ealm on 31-Mar-2020 at 02:02 PM.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 14:01:44
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 584
From: Unknown

Quote:

SHADES wrote:

Even Apple is moving to ARM as of next year.


It mus be true, every two years someone is writing this.

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Rose 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:09:19
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 690
From: Unknown

@OneTimer1

Quote:

OneTimer1 wrote:
Quote:

SHADES wrote:

Even Apple is moving to ARM as of next year.


It mus be true, every two years someone is writing this.


Apple version of "XXXX will be the year of Linux desktop".

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megol 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:22:24
#15 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 337
From: Unknown

@Rose
Windows 10 support Linux nowadays.

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kolla 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:43:06
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Trondheim, Norway

Mini this and mini that - the Minimig arrived in 2009, it had ... big potential :)

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bison 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:45:39
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1576
From: N-Space

@Rose

Quote:
Apple version of "XXXX will be the year of Linux desktop".

That was 1998. Sorry if you missed it.

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Turrican3 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:53:08
#18 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 334
From: Italy

@ealm

Quote:
Make the product easy enough to set up and get started and you'll widen your audience considerably. Which means production volumes goes up and price down

Sure, that's a factor.

But not with that target price.

You cannot just slap an Amiga logo on a 500€ box, add a fool-proof, extremely user friendly setup and enjoy significant numbers in this market.

And there's no need to take my word for it, we already know how totally irrelevant (in the great scheme of things! I for one have purchased AmigaOS 4 FE) have been the AmigaONE computers during the last 10-15 years.

Port AmigaOS the the RaspberryPi, add a decently looking chassis with built-in keyboard, and most of all keep price as low as possible and then maybe, just maybe we can talk again about building a userbase. That alone would NOT be easy but definitely more viable than trying to sell a hi-end machine IMHO to a market that simply doesn't exist anymore.

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bison 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 16:55:59
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1576
From: N-Space

@kolla

Quote:
the Minimig arrived in 2009, it had ... big potential :)

You sound like Mr. Entwistle from Hull.

@thread

People do not make entirely rational purchasing decisions. Someone could put a Minimig (or a MiSTer) and an RPi4 in a nice retro case with an Amiga logo, and they would sell quite a few. We'd all buy one for a start.

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10MARC 
Re: Big potential for Amiga
Posted on 31-Mar-2020 22:34:52
#20 ]
Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2019
Posts: 32
From: Unknown

@ealm

I think tens of thousands, maybe not hundreds of thousands. There are certainly more than that who remember and used the Amiga, but they would never jump back in the community.
There is still a market for a reasonably priced Amiga Mini, though. I think it will happen.

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