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      /  Legal action, why?
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TiredofLife 
Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 10:48:27
#1 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1661
From: Here

As the title says.

Legal action is expensive and generally only used in a business scenario if it's cost effective.
No point taking legal action if you end up worse off financially.

The Amiga community is fractured between the various camps.
Then there is dispute about the way forward for the future, even within those camps.
So for a hardware or software supplier, it would be hard to produce something that could be sold to the whole community.

So how much money can be actually made?
Seems a lot of time, effort and cost for very little gain.
Or is there more money to be made than I suspect?
How many Amigans are still active and purchasing new hardware / software?
How many could be enticed back with the right hardware / software?

In an a amigaworld,net first, i'm going to freely admit I have no idea what the answer to these questions are.
I'm not going to pass of my thoughts as facts or troll any camp or individual.
I'll probably get a ban for this.

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number6 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 12:52:05
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10864
From: In the village

@TiredofLife

Most people would tell you the money is in licensing of the IP to others.

David Pleasance even discussed this in his recent interview.

#6

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 14:00:13
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@TiredofLife

At this point it better give up the “Amiga”,”Workbench”,”AmigaOS” names, it hurts the business more then it gives.

The Vampire / Apollo Team has the right idea, does it even make sense to give away 95% of what make to license holder, and 5% development and marketing, and production. Is not better to put 100% into development?

If the name has to be separated from the software then it has to.

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BigD 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 14:23:33
#4 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5356
From: UK

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
The Vampire / Apollo Team has the right idea,


In the sense that they won't waste money on licensing the Amiga IP true. In taking a build it and they will come attitude to sales and marketing; not so much. My enthusiasm for the V1200 has pretty much waned following the 'release' of the hardware with no fanfare, virtually no reviews and ANOTHER waiting list

I thought a dealer network had been set up for distributing Vampire Boards? The AROS / CoffinOS shenanigans has been a big turn off too! That is the area when an OEM distribution of either OS3.1.4 or OS3.9 is sorely needed. If Hyperion don't want to play ball then what about Cloanto and Haage & Partner? Instead, they play ball with no one and unofficially push the piracy nightmare that is CoffinOS or thrust the unwanted AROS on everyone to save litigation!!!

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kolla 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 14:55:27
#5 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1506
From: Trondheim, Norway

@TiredofLife

Because legal action is the only form of communication that works with a company whos owner and leader is a lawyer.

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TiredofLife 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 15:52:22
#6 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1661
From: Here

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@TiredofLife

Most people would tell you the money is in licensing of the IP to others.

David Pleasance even discussed this in his recent interview.

#6


Is there much money to be made from the Amiga IP these days?
especially when taking into account any legal fees.

Cheers

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bison 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 16:59:59
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1637
From: N-Space

@number6

Last I heard C-A Acquisition v. Hyperion Entertainment was stayed pending the outcome of some other case, back in February, I think. Have I missed anything since?

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number6 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 17:21:01
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10864
From: In the village

@bison

http://amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2020-01-00053-DE.html

#3 is still stayed pending resolution of #2.

If the civil suit goes to trial, all civil actions in the Western District of Washington State had been delayed due to covid-19. They recently pushed back civil actions at the court for another 2 months.

#6

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 20-Jun-2020 19:13:56
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@BigD

I don’t disagree with that.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 20-Jun-2020 at 07:18 PM.

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Hypex 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 17:47:27
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9974
From: Greensborough, Australia

@BigD

According to this Hyperion don't want to play ball because the Vampire doesn't do things the AutoConfig way.

Vampire/ApolloCore support:
Since the Vampire currently does not support Autoconfig or other established means of integrating 3rd-party kickstart modules into the OS, the ROM has to be slightly patched and modified, using tools provided by ApolloTeam. We recommend using an A1200 ROM for this purpose, but we cannot offer support for this procedure or the resulting OS. Please seek ApolloTeam website for guidance and support at: http://www.apollo-accelerators.com/

Well that seems fair enough. I don't know why the Vampire would be designed without using the proper Amiga hardware methods. But I have heard it put it's own scsi.device in place without looking to see if one existed already, though it may have been on an A2000.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 20:29:44
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2218
From: Minnesota, USA

@Hypex

The way the Apollo and SAGA cores are all behind the same cache disallows most DMA except for those cores. It's the cheap way to maintain cache coherency. It doesn't coexist well with other chips.

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redfox 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 21:33:17
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1732
From: Canada

@TiredofLife

Legal action, why? ....... Well ... Why not?

Perhaps the point is that no one wants to win.

Think of the benefits ...

Investors can continue to use losses for tax purposes.

Hyperion can use litigation as an excuse not to release updates.

Developers and beta-testers can continue to tinker without pesky users.

Shut out other hardware because efforts are stalled by litigation.

Everyone involved is protected by NDA.

Win - win ... senario.

---
redfox


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bison 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 21:48:01
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1637
From: N-Space

@number6

I hope this doesn't get dragged out all the way into 2022, but it seems like it could.

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OneTimer1 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 22:23:54
#14 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 600
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:

At this point it better give up the “Amiga”,”Workbench”,”AmigaOS” names, it hurts the business more then it gives.


Getting a name like Amiga for their Vampire Stand alone would cost them a fortune.

But if they would had someone on their side who would not mind losing 500k USD, they could sell a Vampire in a keyboard case as Amiga ...

But in my mind, a name like Vampira or Elvira would be much better

Quote:

The Vampire / Apollo Team has the right idea, does it even make sense to give away 95% of what make to license holder, and 5% development and marketing, and production. Is not better to put 100% into development?


LOL, the Vampire team is stealing software for their Coffin bundle so they can save a lot of development cost. Some developers are really pissed by this behaviour but as long as the fanbois get their software they don't mind if it was stolen.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 21-Jun-2020 22:35:38
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11384
From: Norway

@OneTimer1

Totally it’s a mixed bag, I don’t like their piracy, and they do not motivate developers with the way they act, nor there priorities. But that’s a different thing.

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Hypex 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 22-Jun-2020 4:59:58
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9974
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Samurai_Crow

This may have been an early core with only RTG. But when you have other expansions like USB, network and storage you want to use those. The full on SAGA core will of course need to take over the machine. But it needs to also communicate with it and deal with other things in memory mapped space.

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Hypex 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 22-Jun-2020 5:12:24
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9974
From: Greensborough, Australia

@OneTimer1

Quote:
Getting a name like Amiga for their Vampire Stand alone would cost them a fortune.


They could license the AmigaOne name. But their board isn't a PPC OS4 board. And the Vampire is more Amiga than One.

Quote:
But in my mind, a name like Vampira or Elvira would be much better


Vamiga. Amigapire. VampireOne.

Quote:
LOL, the Vampire team is stealing software for their Coffin bundle so they can save a lot of development cost.


Calling it Coffin makes it sound like a dead OS. I thought the SA was meant to come with AROS. I saw an SA yesterday actually but it just looked like AmigaOS to me. Would have liked to check it out more, given it has the solo core.

Does that mean Coffin is Vampiracy?

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Trixie 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 22-Jun-2020 10:16:29
#18 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1939
From: Czech Republic

@redfox

Quote:
Developers and beta-testers can continue to tinker without pesky users.

As a developer I can tell you there is nothing more frustrating than NOT seeing your work released to the users. I don't think anyone in the Hyperion or A-EON dev team takes pleasure from mere "tinkering" and not getting stuff released.

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number6 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 22-Jun-2020 13:46:45
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10864
From: In the village

@Trixie

The same would hold true for the ExecSG team. Correct? Tinkering yes, releasing no.

#6

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amigang 
Re: Legal action, why?
Posted on 22-Jun-2020 15:19:09
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1501
From: Cheshire, England

@TiredofLife

Legal action, why?

I think if one company can completely have fully ownership it does unlock a lot of options and make it a lot easier to get investors/backers or just set your vision for the brand. without other parties confusing the message and direction.

I think the Amiga Brand is unfortunately too valuable due to the community and strength of the retro scene at the moment. you ask "So how much money can be actually made?"

Well I was very surprised to see the Bedroom to Billions Amiga Story raise £95,000+, its not to surprising after this film and Viva Amiga, copyrighting old Amiga Adverts / Footage happened so that they could collect revenue off these community back films.

We see Amiga books regular raise £20,000+, Cloantos Amiga Forever Essential that just sells the Amiga Roms for Android Phone, is listed as sold in the 10,000+ , there about £20,000,
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cloanto.amigaforever.essentials&hl=en

I think the Amiga mini (like the C64 mini) is going to happen at some point and at the right price point it could easily sell 300,000+ units at a minimum.

So there is money to be made.

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