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      /  What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
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BigD 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 1-Jun-2021 19:47:40
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5910
From: UK

@OneTimer1

.... but the X5000 is no longer sold (no reason given despite the mythical X5000/40 never being released to the public).

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matthey 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 1-Jun-2021 20:29:44
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 1153
From: Kansas

MEGA_RJ_MICAL Quote:

My friends,

I keep looking at this thread, and reading it as "What is the TASTE of Amiga hardware now?"

AH this messy kitchen, oh friends of mine, this crowd of cooks pushing and pulling and twisting and turning, a spicy dash FPGA here, a pinch of stale PPC there, a bittersweet tablespoon of ARM sprinkled all over.


The FPGA has the addictive spicy flavor loved by so many until it was not available anymore. Now it is just a tease of the flavor that is not spicy enough. Maybe it needs to go in the toaster on a wafer to enhance the flavor to what it used to be. The flavor really came out before in a toaster.

PPC connoisseurs would rather use the word aged than stale. You can call it stale and I would agree that it hasn't aged well despite being at the top of some of the most expensive menus at one time. The problem was that it looked good but never tasted good to the majority of people. Now there are alternatives which look at least as good, taste better and won't leave you as bloated.

ARM ends up sprinkled on everything because it is such a cheap spice. It's had a weak and inconsistent flavor but it's not bad for a cheap spice. ARM has recently made the spice bolder, more consistent and prettier although the flavor has caused minor bloating but not as bad as PPC. It has replaced PPC on most of the menus.

MEGA_RJ_MICAL Quote:

So many flavors, so many ingredients, but in the end - always the same taste:
shyte™©®.

At least, it's low-carb stuff.


All those older harder to find spices are less filling compared to popular ones today. They can be really tasty in small sizes if the ones which cause bloating are avoided. The 3 popular spices which have taken over the world really get old and aren't that great of flavor anyway. Variety is the spice of life after all.

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BigD 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 1-Jun-2021 20:35:51
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5910
From: UK

@matthey

... mmmmm, what do you think the taste of yellowed left out in the sun A1200 case plastic is? Vanilla mixed with caramel or a 50 a day fag (cigarette for our US friends ) hag’s sofa?

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geen_naam 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 1-Jun-2021 20:53:34
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@virgolamobile

Quote:
Having said that, I hope that somebody in the AmigaOS community will decide to work on drivers by himself .


I think that you underestimate the amount of effort involved to support a new type of amiga. (laptop)

Yes, I'm the one who's responsible for the hdaudio driver. I wrote that driver because I couldn't find a quality audio card for my X5000 which arrived in Januari of this year.

Here's a summary of the effort that it took to get it released:

Writing that AHI driver was a relatively "easy" task although I had no experience with coding for the amiga at all.
1. Example drivers are availlable here.
2. Developer documentation of the older V4 is available here
3. How to write an amiga library is available here
4. The hdaudio specification is freely available here.

First problem: the example code didn't build. There were files missing which had to be created with some SFDC-master perl script.
Second problem: This script didn't work with the perl version on amigaos4. So had had to setup a cross compiler environment with cygwin. And guess what. It still didn't build.
Third problem: The code was loaded with depricated and obsolete calls.
Fourth problem: There was no example code available for the mode in which I wanted to use the AHI driver. And the documentation only mentions this mode in two sentences.
Fifth problem: There was no documentation at all about 7.1 audio. None of the example drivers offer this mode.

So I concentrated on the filesave driver as a way to learn how AHI and coding for OS4 in general works. This wasn't very successfull at first because the code was "infested" with code for other OSes and the amiga library structure has changed quiet a bit. So instead, I had to rebuild the driver from the ground up: Wrote a new driver framework and backported the filesave drive code to this new framework while getting rid of all depricated and obsolete calls. The result of this effort can be found here.

After a short break and with the OS4 legal AHI driver framework from the filesave driver it was time to go for the real deal. The driver code itself was pretty straight forward thanks to the specification. For the Amiga specific stuff like DMA I was fortunate enough that my fellow amiga users were willing to help me out on amigans.net. But getting it to work in the mode that I wanted was trail and error due to the lack of documentation. But in the end I managed to get it working. I bought 4 different audio cards to test the driver and then I waited until april first to release it.

But for other type of drivers there's no amigaos4 example code or documentation available. You have to refer to the old rkrm or maybe some open source drivers on aminet for OS3. But still there's no documentation how to write a kernel module for example. Everything is locked behind NDA walls. So this will make it hard to write a NVMe driver for example.

And some tasks can only be done by Hyperion and Aeon.
Support for the E6500 core and the HAL in general has to be done by the ExexSG team. Power management will affect the complete system. Every driver has to made aware of power management.
There's no USB3 support in the amigaos4 USB stack. This is a task for Hyperion.

So it might take years to have that fully implemented.

Of course I also dream of an amiga laptop. But when you wait for others to take action after you've released your laptop isn't going to work. This needs to be a team effort.

Last edited by geen_naam on 01-Jun-2021 at 09:20 PM.
Last edited by geen_naam on 01-Jun-2021 at 09:02 PM.

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AmigaMac 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 2:17:17
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 1065
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

Are there any Amiga A1200 fans in the bunch?

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Rose 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 6:49:10
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 930
From: Unknown

@geen_naam

Quote:
Of course I also dream of an amiga laptop. But when you wait for others to take action after you've released your laptop isn't going to work. This needs to be a team effort.


There is also one little thing, has anyone commited to actually manufacturing these outside of 3 prototypes.

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geen_naam 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 2-Jun-2021 7:42:14
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@Rose

There are three non functional dual layer pcbs without components. Mainly used for mechanical fit check. (Why they used ENIG finish instead of the cheaper HAL on a mechanical fit board is a mystery to me).

Creating prototypes is the next step. But the donation campaign hasn't been successful yet.

I guess that if/when their laptop is ready for production, they could launch a prepay construction for each batch. For manufacturing your own hardware design, you only need money. No commitment.

For me, without an amiga team effort, this is a linux laptop which might run amigaos4 one day in the distant future. So at this point, it makes no sense for me to make a donation.

Apparently acube is somehow involved. But to what extend is unknown. But without involvement of the ExecSG team and Hyperion, this is a no go anyways.

But especially on this topic, I like to be proven wrong.

Last edited by geen_naam on 02-Jun-2021 at 07:44 AM.
Last edited by geen_naam on 02-Jun-2021 at 07:42 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 0:54:57
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 858
From: Arizona

@Trixie

Quote:
It's always valuable to read an educated opinion of someone who stopped using OS4 eleven years ago.


Said by a person who still uses an OS that's stuck in 1998.....

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Trixie 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 7:45:55
#29 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2013
From: Czech Republic

@ferrels

Your personal experience with OS4 is so dated and your knowledge of the current state of the platform is so limited that it makes me wonder which part of your cerebral cortex believes that you still have something to say on the topic.

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Hammer 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 4-Jun-2021 15:37:10
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4270
From: Australia

@AmigaMac

I'm waiting for a 68LC060 card for my A1200.

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billt 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 19:23:57
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3192
From: Maryland, USA

@geen_naam

Quote:

geen_naam wrote:

There are three non functional dual layer pcbs without components. Mainly used for mechanical fit check. (Why they used ENIG finish instead of the cheaper HAL on a mechanical fit board is a mystery to me).


I assume you meant HASL instead of HAL. This is being built in Europe, so lead-free is a requirement.
https://blog.epectec.com/why-is-lead-free-hasl-finish-a-hassle


Quote:
For me, without an amiga team effort, this is a linux laptop which might run amigaos4 one day in the distant future. So at this point, it makes no sense for me to make a donation.

Apparently acube is somehow involved. But to what extend is unknown.


I have no worries.

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OneTimer1 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:03:48
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 680
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@OneTimer1

.... but the X5000 is no longer sold ...


They ran out of licences, I don't know if they can sell the AmigaOne X 5000 with MorphOS instead, the same thing was told about the A1222/Tabor.

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geen_naam 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:04:10
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@billt

Quote:
I assume you meant HASL instead of HAL

What are you talking about?

HAL ( Hot air leveling) and HASL (Hot air solder leveling) are the exact same finish.
HAL/HASL is available both leaded and lead-free.

Quote:
I have no worries

Erm... OK.

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OneTimer1 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:05:49
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 680
From: Unknown



Quote:

geen_naam wrote:


There are three non functional dual layer pcbs without components.


Dual layer PCBs will hardly work, even with components.

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BigD 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:19:22
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5910
From: UK

@OneTimer1

Quote:
They ran out of licences, I don't know if they can sell the AmigaOne X 5000 with MorphOS instead, the same thing was told about the A1222/Tabor.


Hilarious!

For there to be any quantity of £1750 X5000 stock sitting at AmigaKit because they didn't renegotiate OEM license agreement shows you how slowly X5000 are now being sold! That would wipe out a 'regular' computer business to have a stock embargo e.g. the CD32 not being allowed to be sold in the USA!

The Amiga World is crazy! It's like Commodore witholding payment to MOS Semiconductors to virtually bankrupt and then buy them for a knock down price! History repeating but no one at MOS moonlighted as an IP lawyer! Ben Hermans will let the motherland burn before he sells out for the good of the users

POPCORN!!!

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jun-2021 at 09:20 PM.

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geen_naam 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 8-Jun-2021 21:22:21
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2003
Posts: 111
From: The Netherlands

@OneTimer1

If you want to check solderability of you BGAs or fine pitch components then ENIG is a much better finish because it offers a much smoother surface than HAL.

Since the board is without components and serves as a mechanical model only, there's no reason to use the more expensive ENIG finish over HAL. Unless you want the cool golden look of course.

Last edited by geen_naam on 08-Jun-2021 at 09:28 PM.

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billt 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 12-Jun-2021 18:32:20
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3192
From: Maryland, USA

@geen_naam

Quote:
HAL ( Hot air leveling) and HASL (Hot air solder leveling) are the exact same finish.


I have heard that lead-free HASL (/HAL) is more difficult to build than ENIG leaded HASL.

Maybe it's just a policy between those who made the order and the fab? I don't know if the mechanical dummies were build in Italy, but the mostly Italian project likes to keep as much as possible within Italy, and I am not sure if there are rules or strong preferences regardless of application for things built there.

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OneTimer1 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 16:36:32
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Aug-2015
Posts: 680
From: Unknown

Quote:

geen_naam wrote:
@OneTimer1

Since the board is without components and serves as a mechanical model only, ...


They could have used cardboard instead.

But the biggest problem aside of missing components is the missing licence. There is still so much hardware around, but no AOS4 licences.

Maybe they can get MOS easier but could is compete with 10 years old used Mac hardware?

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 13-Jun-2021 at 04:37 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: What is the state of Amiga hardware now?
Posted on 13-Jun-2021 16:44:54
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11889
From: Norway

@OneTimer1

Quote:
Maybe they can get MOS easier but could is compete with 10 years old used Mac hardware?


The old mac's, also comes with a old graphic card, something to consider, when you buy one. Make sure pick a mac that has a graphic card that MorphOS supports full, youtube playback needs overlay support as a minimum, on MorphOS. Or buy mac that allows you to swap out the old gfx card with a supported graphic card. if its not included.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 04:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 04:50 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jun-2021 at 04:45 PM.

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