@IridiumFX

He's working also on super secret NG PR project where goal is alienate largest remaining user segments. NG will be sooooo strong when everyone remaining will be True Amiga's witness!

@Rose

he's a true pillar of this community. A 5th column of this place

Last edited by IridiumFX on 20-Dec-2021 at 02:31 PM.

@ppcamiga1

again that would change nothing...

even if you offer something that is as powerful as the mainstream platforms it would change nothing. You still have the disadvantage of a small user base. If you develop for money mainly that is what is important. I explained you what the developers told me about that. If PPC would be interesting to them they could already develop for PPC. For money PPC amiga hardware (before Kolla starts to moan again) the user base is too small. And if it is mainly for fun PPC obviously not offers the right things. Even new hardware like Vampire is too modern to them. It is the attraction of the old, retro, memories, the challenge to make impossible things possible, to be one of the few skilled developers doing magical things. Nothing that you certainly can understand. I was expecting more interest in better hardware too but it is how it is. To be interesting for pure commercial development anything amiga related must sell in far higher numbers.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 20-Dec-2021 at 03:32 PM.

AmigaOS should be ported to CHUNGUS 2!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDiapbD0Xfg

@Rose

@Rose

I’m sure run lots of LUA, Phyton, and JavaScript on that thing what a beast.

_________________
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@Rose

For pc I have Windows.

@OlafS25

To get new people You have to provide hardware at least
at level of cheap pc from windows 95 era.
24 bit color, FPU, MMU, internet, pentium speed.
Such 68k exists but they are too expensive.
Vampire is still not goog enough.
People like You should accept ppc.
It is nice, compatible, and at least as fast nad as comfortable as cheap pc from windows 95 era.
And it is cheaper than 68k.

Guys please...

This was about, why I love NG. Please don't let this deteriorate into adult bullying.
If you don't like NG, just leave ot at that. Act your age please!

_________________

Rose Quote:

AmigaOS should be ported to CHUNGUS 2! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDiapbD0Xfg

No color or music with 4kiB of memory? Not real time? Amiga 4kiB intros are more impressive.

Best demoscene 4kb intros of all time according to pouet
https://youtu.be/W58r7oycUrA?t=48

The Chungus 2 CPU is pipelined with caches so in some ways is more advanced than the original 68000.

@Yssing

You must not be familiar his "NG MUST BE HARDWARE AGNOSTIC UNIX WITH AMIGA GRAPHICS! OH AND IT MUST BE PPC!" rants?

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

Nobody sane will develop for emulator

Sanity is overrated, especially when one is developing outside the mainstream.

Quote:

68k is too expensive or too underpowered. Which means You should accept ppc.

This is a false dichotomy.
The other option, and the one I personally prefer, is to find a way to lower the cost of 68k, and if possible increase its performance at the same time.

And what do you know, its actually possible to do both those things, at the same time.
Which means, You should accept 68k.

Last edited by agami on 21-Dec-2021 at 02:25 AM.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@IridiumFX

Quote:

a true pillar of this community. A 5th column of this place

Love it.
I want it on a T-shirt.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@ppcamiga1

To bring it back on topic, NG is a label applied to more than just AmigaOS 4.x running on PPC.
We all know you dislike AROS, but AROS running on x86, 68k, ARM, or any other ISA is also NG.
I also think the people who have and those who continue to work on MorphOS have done some awesome work. Even if for me it is not enough to do more than have a few hours of play, every year or so.

Here are my reasons why I DON'T love NG.

As a computer user, I don't care about the CPU in the Amiga as long as it makes the system good value for money, and offers realistic potential for growing the community of developers and users. People who insist on PPC or Big Endian ISAs make me disinterested in the whole idea of NG.
First because they're stuck in the past, second they're tribal.
This idea of "just use what makes you happy" is not part of the solution, which makes it part of the problem.
Like Andy said "Get busy livin', or get busy dying'.

As a systems architect I do care if Amiga has a "chipset".
I'm not talking about the chipsets of the '80s and early '90s. I'm talking about some custom set of even off-the-shelf ICs that can make for a more effective system.
The idea of having everything done by the CPU is outdated, but some multi-core support would certainly be welcomed in NG.
The battleground is no longer about graphics or multimedia, though it would be nice if NG could at least get those OG Amiga hallmarks right.
It sucks that there are so many NG camps. Divided, none is strong enough to make an impact, but neither seems to be prepared to make concessions.

Don't get me started on backward compatibility.
What about all those tens of apps people have written for single-core 32-bit AmigaOS 4.x/MorphOS/AROS? How will we ever bridge the past and the future without millions of dollars?
Simple. If the developer is not interested in porting their app to a modern multi-threaded x86-64/ARM based platform, then screw them. Someone else more deserving will no doubt fill the void.
Just having the basics from the late '90s: fast 3D graphics, MMU, HDD, Ethernet, is not good enough.
I guess I'm talking about the Next Next Gen (NNG), with modern tech like Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, USB Type C 3.1 Gen 2, laptop options, webcams, NVMe, 64-bit, multi-core/multi-thread, modern libraries and APIs. That would be good enough. And then it has something a little extra to make it more than just good enough.

So to sum up, since I don't see how any of this Amiga NG stuff is going to get us to Amiga NNG, that is why I DON'T love NG.

Amiga NNG: You're either with us, or you're against us.

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@agami

I’ll design you a T-Shirt of this if you want.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 21-Dec-2021 at 03:27 AM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@Rose

I don't care, and neither should you.

_________________

@agami

Quote:

To bring it back on topic, NG is a label applied to [...] Here are my reasons why I DON'T love NG.

Well done, it only took you four lines to get off topic again!

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@agami

you seem to have the same thinking as IBM when they tried to establish a competing OS to Windows and failed. They invested lots of money in the OS (I somewhere read 1 billion dollar) but did not really care about software development, they expected that it would be automatically supported because it is good and it is from them. That did not happen. The users finally preferred windows, not because it was better but because there was the software. That was at a time where people on average were much more informed about technology than the average user today.

Today computers are everywhere in almost any new device, most obvious in smartphones. Most users do not know much about the hardware or OS they use, they only know the brand and which apps they use. Similar the situation is on desktop. Also there are much more options on desktop than in the past. People have the choice between modern platforms like Windows, Mac and Linux. All platforms with development resources behind and huge software bases. And most users do not know amiga, not even the brand name. There are people of course remembering the brand but long ago left and there are active amiga users. Also you must decide where your advantages are compared to the bigger platforms. 64bit, SMP and MP and supporting newest USB is nothing that is really advantage compared to competition.

You must decide for which group you would create your super-OS because all have different interests. And you must invest lots of money in both marketing and software development. It is in my view just a pipe dream and completely unrealistic. You only have a list of modern components you would like to have but you do not answer why users should install it and developers support it. And which is your potential user group and why should they use it?

Current 68k developments are obvious attractive to current amiga interested users and some of the former amigans. It is certainly not attracting vast majority of todays users. "NG" is also attractive to some users of current community. I do not currently see what group of users you are targetting and how you want to convince them to use your new "super-dream-OS".

Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Dec-2021 at 09:19 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Dec-2021 at 09:15 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 21-Dec-2021 at 09:15 AM.

@agami

AROS on little endian is not Amiga NG.
Amiga OS API is big endian.
exec, dos etc is big endian and will stay big endian forever.
Only newer part mainly graphics and gui are hardware independent.

As a software developer I don't care who made graphics for Amiga.
Commodore never made anything to do with 256 or hicolor.
So whats the difference who made graphics for Amiga.

If You provide something fast and usable thats ok.

Windows 95 level hardware is absolute minimum for hobby.
Amiga do not have to be better, but cannot be worse.

Amiga NNG.
People that waste time on attack on ppc like for example rose, schonweis, irydium
should spend time instead of attack on ppc
on improving aros to get it to at least when commodity oses was twenty years ago.

Last edited by ppcamiga1 on 21-Dec-2021 at 09:53 AM.

@ppcamiga1

Quote:

Commodore never made anything to do with 256 or hicolor.

So using PAL Hi-Res/Hi-Res Interlaced with 256 colours on AGA was not possible or developed by Commodore? I did a whole DPaint 5 animation using that mode! I'm sure some point and click adventure games used that mode and Wing Commander AGA was 256 colours!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios