@IonMane

Electric motors are much better than them noisy #### excuse for an engine that eats fossil fuels and stinks! Hehe the only downside to electric motors I can think of is they are so quiet you would not hear that idiot white van man hurtling round the corner just waiting to knock you, the pedestrian over!

Damn that white van man!

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@ihatewestlife2002

An all electric car would be quiet. A definite plus for 'tuners' they can simply install some speakers and have the car output the virtual exhaust sound however they like.

Thus, some people who like the fartcan muffler sound can do that, others that like the throaty feel of a V8 can do that and the person that just wants to pump out music as their exhaust noise could do that.

@BrianK

That'll be me pumping out the deep house music out the zorst!

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@vortexau

Quote:

Reva in India is set to market their electric car that costs 0.85 US cents per km on the road.

That car looks like a real chick magnet! Can you picture it cruisin down woodward next to Mustang's, Cuda's and Corvette's.

So what does it do in a 0-60? Oh sorry, I just read it only goes up to 40mph!

If I drove that thing on the freeway I would be ticketed for going too slow. Not to mention being laughed at cut off and being disrespected by cars that get no respect themselves.

I consider it a drag buying one battery at 60 bucks let alone 8 batteries at possibly more!

I don't think electric cars with current technology is to be a good replacement for gas. Performance is not good enough and batteries are heavy, dangerous and wear out.

@nzv58l

Quote:

nzv58l wrote: So what does it do in a 0-60? Oh sorry, I just read it only goes up to 40mph!

They lied! It'll go 60MPH. Find a deep enough hole and it'll accelerate at 32 feet per second per second or for our metric friendly users 9.8 metres per second per second.

@BrianK

Quote:

Diesel has an approximate gain of 30% in mileage over gasoline. Making a car a hybrid adds only about 10% gain. Thus, if you combined these you'd see a 40MPG diesel go to 44MPG -- probably not enough gain to offset the additional cost of adding the hybrid system.

Economic of scale in similar level as normal petrol engine variants would be required to drive the cost down.

Quote:

It does win if your only concern is using less gas in your vehicle in this case.

That would be one of the main points i.e. reduce dependency on imported crude oil for road transport and OPEC cartels/unstable governments with oil.

With Japan?s POV, going hybrid ASAP would be a strategic move for them since they are highly dependant on imported petroleum fuel. Australia would soon join a similar boat since Australia?s own crude oil for road transport will run out within a decade or so (1)**.

**Not factored in newly discovered sources or natural gas sources...

Reference;
1. http://www.det.csiro.au/factsheets/vehicles.htm
2. http://www.fastlane.com.au/News/Holden_ECOmmodore.htm

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I could do with a car like the Indian Reva. I live close to work and normally don't drive that many km's a year anymore.

If a car like that was available at a decent price in Denmark I think I would consider it,
but as we have something like 180% tax on all cars (I believe even the enviromental friendly) it will be far to expensive.

Seems there's a UK distributor @ www.goingreen.co.uk

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@IonMane

Quote:

IonMane wrote: The biggest problem facing hydrogen as a fuel is simply the cost of the fuel cells themselves, and the capacity of the cells.

Yes, they're not fully developed yet and therefor can't be produced in quantities. So they still cost too much...

This is exactly why we at Ford developed the hydrogene internal combustion engine as an interim solution.

As it is mostly an "normal" combustion engine, it can easily be produced in quantities and so generate an demand for hydrogene fuel.

And this is currently the most significant obstacle:
The availability of hydrogene and oxygene as fuel.
Quote:

IonMane wrote: The most effient design for dual powered vehicle is one where the engine is set to run at its most efficient rpm.The engine powers a generator which charges the battery.

Exactly - personally I'd say:
Let's throw away the combustion engine and the gearbox(es).

Let's take a hydrogene fired turbine instead which permanently runs at a constant speed and drives an generator.

The electricity it generates drives the four electric wheel engines.

Power switching (gearboxes) can be managed electronically - even to a degree where "shifting sound" is "emulated".
Quote:

IonMane wrote: The advantage of a cumbustion/electric engine is that an alcahol engine is a simple conversion.You could even replace or convert current petroleum engines to alcahol, which is very clean.

The same would be valid for hydrogene operated combustion engines.

Just that hydrogene is even more clean than alcohol (and does not have impact on peoples driving abilities (just a joke)).
Quote:

IonMane wrote: As for the "more components" argument, it is a non issue really.Cars already have the engine and a generator, and electric motors require an extremely small amount of maitenance. New brushes every now and then and maybe lubricated bearings. Electric motors are far more efficient than combustion, they do not require tuning, water cooling, air filters, fuel filters, fuel injection/carburettors, distributors, engine oil, spark plugs and so on.

Yes.
(Although I know electric motors for highest requirements which have water cooling, air filters and the like)
Quote:

IonMane wrote: This is one of the major factors behind not adopting electic engines as 1) most profit made on a car is servicing/tuning it 2) thousands of mechanics would be out of work as thier services for tuning/sevicing a car would no longer be required. All this makes electric motors far more reliable as well and completely eliminates the problems with cold temperatures.

Agreed...
Quote:

IonMane wrote: Also, while lead acid batteries give off gas, it is gas which is not harmful to the evnironment, ...

Nahhhh - I have to contradict here.
The gas produced while charging lead acid batteries is hydrogene sulfide.
If you wash it out with water (rain) you'll get sulfurous acid.
And this *IS* harmful to the evnironment...
Quote:

IonMane wrote: ...and a significant amount of the battery can be recycled.With the rise in popularity in electric driven cars I believe you would see a corresponding rise in battery research resulting in cheap more efficient lighter batteries with larger capacity and reuse capability in a reasonable time.

The engineers I talked with on that said that there are physical limits which they cannot exceed in the foreseeable future...

_________________
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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

I've read about those hydrogen combustion engines, but where's the beef? I'm waiting and waiting, but there's no product available! If all you did was put a hydrogen pump at every Ford dealer, you'd be set, and you'd have a guaranteed income from Ford buyers.

You might say, well we'd still have to distribute hydrogen to the pumps. Fair enough. Isn't this what spinoffs and investors are for?

America's big four (GMC, AMC, Chrysler, Ford) have dwindled to the big two and a half (GMC, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler). Lord we could use some imaginative management at the top!

Reminds me of AT&T back in the monopoly days: tons of great products wasting away in limbo because their management refused to believe that people might want something better than a Princess Phone.

[/end ill-informed rant]

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@Dandy

Cologne - good old Capri engine! Or was that the Essex?

Quote:

Let's take a hydrogene fired turbine instead which permanently runs at a constant speed and drives an generator.

I like turboshafts. Portable power stations, used in helicopters, ships, pumping stations, that NY train and soon to be tanks, but aint they a tad noisy for a car?

_________________

Quote:

ihatewestlife2002 wrote: In the next thousand years the ice could all melt at the poles and we would lose many of our beautiful animals such as the penguin! If we lost the penguin there would be no Linux (because the logo would mean nothing) or humans because of the heat! There would be a thunderstorm every day and all those stupid women that take their bloody kids to school in a 4x4 won't now because their vehicles have melted!

It wouldn't be all bad, 'cos there'd be

NO MORE MICROSOFT!!!



...Right?

................................................................................

Some of you guys might have mentioned this before- I can't be arsed to read those huge posts. The fuel company BOC have developed a car that runs on hydrogen, or liquid hydrogen... or something. The fuel is (comparatively) cheap and clean to produce, and a full tank is enough for it to circle the globe!

That's what it's set to do- circle the globe, if it hasn't set off already. i don't know about speed. It's only a prototype shaped like a dolphin, and they reckon it could be 15-20 years before they take off (planes too? ) but they'd be great if they did- renewable, cheap clean energy with about 10,000 miles to the gallon! I hope it's not a wind up!

_________________
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Sex doesn't prove to me that sex doesn't suck.

@all

I'd rather have a car that runs on cooking oil, because it's pottentially a renewable source of energy. Farmers could make a come back by growing loads of sunflowers in thier fields and manufacturers could easlily redesign diesil engines to run on it.

_________________
SiG Na TuRe?

@ED209

Quote:

ED209 wrote: @all I'd rather have a car that runs on cooking oil, because it's pottentially a renewable source of energy. Farmers could make a come back by growing loads of sunflowers in thier fields and manufacturers could easlily redesign diesil engines to run on it.

Then I have good news for you:
A few weeks ago there was a report here on German TV about an engine that uses oil used in a snackbar to deep-fry chips.

It's said to be a real appetizer if you drive behind such a car...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

Have you seen this?

300 Km range, 110 Km/h max. speed, and it cleans the air!!

Quoting from the latest press release:

"MDI also presented the MultiCAT's concept of a zero pollution urban transportation system which incorporates several important economic advantages. Consisting of a Driver module and up to 4 transport modules, (as in a train with tyres) it has been developed with a view to transporting up to 135 people at a cost of only 2.5 Euros for each 100 km per module, which could allow local and/or national governments to offer practically free urban transport to its citizens."

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

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A1200

This thread reminded about an article I saw recently. I think nuclear powered cars have not been made .... yet .... but I was surpriced that nuclear powered airplane has been tested ... and that some remote controlled/autopiloted psy plane could/would use "nuke" engine... insane!

What else has there been?
( icebreaker ships, most likely also cargo ships, airplane carriers, space crafts, submarines, world biggest digger, and a lot of weapons )

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Orgin

Quote:

Orgin wrote: @vortexau Not that I'd want to drive around in something like that with -30c, snow and ice :) /Björn

Well, for YOUR needs . . . it is obvious! You need a SWEDISH Electric Car:


In fact, they've found that if a Swedish Electric Locomotive is wrapped in plastic sheeting; folk can be convinced that it really is an Electric Car!!

_________________
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A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@nzv58l

Quote:

nzv58l wrote: @vortexau Quote: Reva in India is set to market their electric car that costs 0.85 US cents per km on the road. That car looks like a real chick magnet! Can you picture it cruisin down woodward next to Mustang's, Cuda's and Corvette's. . . . . . . . . I consider it a drag buying one battery at 60 bucks let alone 8 batteries at possibly more! I don't think electric cars with current technology is to be a good replacement for gas. Performance is not good enough and batteries are heavy, dangerous and wear out.

Well, just for YOU - I have performed an exhaustive search and have found an Electric Car that doesn't run from its internal battries:

_________________
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A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@Ferry

Maybe it'll sell in Europe, but in the US a car has to go a lot further than 200-300km on a 4-hour charge before the vast majority of people will buy it. Even the supposedly environmentally conscious among us drive more than that on many weekends. The taxi and the van might work for businesses, but definitely not the car.

_________________
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@ED209

Quote:

ED209 wrote: @all I'd rather have a car that runs on cooking oil, because it's pottentially a renewable source of energy. Farmers could make a come back by growing loads of sunflowers in thier fields and manufacturers could easlily redesign diesil engines to run on it.

Not a problem buy a diesel vehicle, I'm sure the web has various sources to show you how to run your diesel on vegetable oil. Vegetable oil is more viscous then diesel but has about the same combustion properties. Without modification you can cut your diesel fuel down and add vegetable oil in it's place. I believe some diesels need minor modifications to run straight vegetable oil.

The plus -- you can use McDonald's waste oil and your car will smell like french fries... Okay maybe that's a minus.

@simplex

Quote:

simplex wrote: @Ferry Maybe it'll sell in Europe, but in the US a car has to go a lot further than 200-300km on a 4-hour charge before the vast majority of people will buy it. Even the supposedly environmentally conscious among us drive more than that on many weekends. The taxi and the van might work for businesses, but definitely not the car.

In Minnesota many people travel from the suburbs to the Twin Cities. Assuming the average trip length is 40 miles round trip that's under 200km. As a daily commuter car, this vehicle would theoretically work for the majority of the commuters. But, yes we wouldn't take our families on the long weekend trip.