Wonder if the ACube announcement (500) will have any relation to this price reduction

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1 AmigaOne G4XE (OS4 Pre-Release Update4)
Minimig
Sam440ep + OS4.1FE
Sam460cr + OS4.1FE

No, it does not have any bearing on our price reductions.

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Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | A600GS

Sorry if I offended you.

I guess I'm clutching at straws to find out, a couple of weeks early, what's going on at ACube.

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1 AmigaOne G4XE (OS4 Pre-Release Update4)
Minimig
Sam440ep + OS4.1FE
Sam460cr + OS4.1FE

What are the prices? Anyone? I am still IP banned from Amigakit website.

Just curious.

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Power Mac G4 "Quicksilver 2002"
800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

@red

Banned, what from buying too much

From US store
SAM460EX BASIC SYSTEM
$1,025.32

SAM460EX COMPLETE SYSTEM
$1,183.78

What were the prices before the drop?

Last edited by Amiboy on 08-Sep-2011 at 06:55 AM.

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Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

Druck me funk, I knew OS4.x hardware was expensive, but I didnt realise just how expensive.
Ive been looking at buying some new amiga gear this month, but after seeing this decided to upgrade my pc instead. i7-2600k, 16gigddr3-2133, 2x560ti's, and blu ray burner and it comes in at about $850.

Yes, I understand the volume of numbers arguement, but damn thats somewhat lopsided. The above pc system would probably be at least 25x as powerful (even more when doing gfx related stuff).

Something really needs to be done about the price of OS4.x hardware. A sam460 is about as weak a platform as I could tolerate. A person quickly adjust to speed and going backwards vs. what most people were using 10 years ago is a painful proposition. Yes, Amiga OS performs nicely on modest hardware, but an OS by itself is no fun, and apps typically require more resources on Amiga than elsewhere.

If it was about 1/2 the price then I'd have bought 1 rather than do the pc upgrade. Guess I'll stick to my a1200 and amithlon for now.

@fishy_fis

PeeSees are tragic. What are you going to do with it? All that juicy power?

Like why on earth would anyone buy a bicycle for €3000 that is twice as heavy and therefore slow, kind of unconfortable and very unpractical when you could get one for €1000, or even €500 that would run circles around this €3000 bike?

Answer: Because that cheaper bike doesn't fit the terrain I want to ride. It can only function among the mainstream people on the common streets. I want to go down a mountain over roots and rocks and be able to jump several meters with it

And that is also why I will buy the X1000 which will probably cost almost twice as much as the 460. Again; why: Because I did get that €3000 bike and I love it, as I love the Amiga.

Last edited by Deniil715 on 08-Sep-2011 at 07:54 AM.

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- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

While I understand what youre saying youre forgetting a few things. Firstly, I can use my amiga hobby on the pc via aros and amithlon, and that the expensive amiga "bike" is also limited where it can go.

Ive been an amiga fan and user since the a1000 was released, I completely understand the appeal, but the amiga scene is different than it once was. Its no longer restricted to 1 option,, and in light of the alternatives even I, a potential part of the audience just cant swallow what the OS4.x segment has to pay.

If someone is willing to pay this amount for such (relatively) weak hardware then Im happy for them, but Im not (nor are many other people).

Quote:

Firstly, I can use my amiga hobby on the pc via aros and amithlon,

I honestly could not use an AmigaOS3.x based system for "everyday computing". While I managed that for many years on Amithlon & then WinUAE, by (around) 2007 or so I had essentially stopped using WinUAE (and Amithlon). If it was not for the Sam440 being released, I would not be using an Amiga now.

On the other hand, AmigaOS4.x has a nice collection of software, which is far more modern than what is available for OS3.x (although there is obviously still a way to go before catching up Windows completely). OS4 also fixes tons of bugs & omissions of OS3.


AROS is a different issue, and I don't want to offend AROS users. But when only 17% of Aros-Exec members say AROS is now mature enough for everyday use, I think it is fair to say that AROS still has a long way to go (IMHO stability seems to be the biggest issue).


BTW, you seem to suggest that OS4 software running on a Sam460 would be barely usable. As I find a 'lowly' Sam440 to be acceptable for many tasks, I think you are wrongly using Window hardware requirements to judge what is needed to run *most* modern software... and even Windows hardware is obscenely overpowered for common tasks like reading email, browsing the web, and watching videos.

Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Sep-2011 at 09:59 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 08-Sep-2011 at 09:58 AM.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

The price/performance is going down.
Two and a half years ago my Sam 440ep-flex 800Mhz + 1 Gig ram + OS 4.1 cost around US$815.00 .
I find it as responsive as a Amd Phenom II quad core machine runing Windows XP .

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

What is the difference between the 'complete system' and the 'system build' other than the case?

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Sam

@ChrisH

There's little difference between what can be done on os3.x with a lot of grunt and OS4.x. Yes OS4.x is a little "cleaner", but end results arent too dissimilar. There's many things I can do on my amithlon box that simply cant be done on OS4.x hardware for example (HD video for one). Compilation times are much quicker on my amithlon box vs. any amiga hardware, euae is much, much faster and so on. Amithlon on a core2duo@3.86ghz and dual channel ddr2-1066 is a far, far cry from the athlon system you ran it on, not to mention there's more, and better OS3.x software to deal with "modern" computing than there was back then. Its funny, I see it often that people who favor one platform are quick to point out their platform of choices advantages, but fail to even comprehend that the other options have made similar progress (perhaps selective comprehenson).

As for the poll on AROS, to me that simply says that AROS people are typically more realisitic. No one system (mos/os3.x/os4/aros) has any big advantages verus the other otpions. They all have thier pros and cons.

Im also well aware of what can and cant be done with limited resources on Amigas. The fact is though that most of my computer interests require raw grunt, so for me a Sam460 would be a compromise (my A1XE g4 irritated me such was the weakness of its hardware for example). As much as people avoid mentioning it the vast majority of OS4 (and other options) native software comes from the open source world using foreign toolkits and so on, which are typically weaker on amiga platforms than the mainstream ones, which means that not only is it reasonable to compare requirements to mainstream oses requirements, but the software actually requires even more resources than on Win/Mac/Linux. Yes there's lots of little bits and pieces that are more amiga like, but I want to use real software, not pointless drivel just cos it runs ok. Most of the stuff that runs better has roots in os3.x anyway.

Now Im sure a lot of OS4.x people are going to read this and assume that just because Im not looking through rose tinted glasses, but rather from the angle of logic, that Im being harsh, but thats simply not the case. The thing is *ID LIKE* to use OS4.x, but there's simply nothing there to make me want to use it vs. similarly capable (pros and cons remember?) alternatives. The price and the compromise Id need to make (for my needs/interests) simply make it horrendous value. Quite a shame really.


edits: damn, I was The Typo King.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 08-Sep-2011 at 11:56 AM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 08-Sep-2011 at 11:49 AM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 08-Sep-2011 at 11:42 AM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 08-Sep-2011 at 11:37 AM.

@ fishy_fis

Everyone is free to chose what options to use.

I ran an Amithlon system up to a month ago as well as a Sam with OS 4.1 and a Windows XP machine. The Amithlon machine died and I migrated my functions spread across the Sam and the WIndows machine instead of replacing the dedicated Amithlon box.
One function on the SAM that works better is the higher screen resolution for Turbocalc spreadsheets. As this is a business function and it saves me a lot of time I could justify the cost of a Sam 460 just for this and keep my Sam 440exp-flex for just personal use.But as work and home are in the same building it would be overkill at the moment.

Last edited by Spectre660 on 08-Sep-2011 at 02:00 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

personally i looked at the prices, without remembering what they exactly were before, but tbh have not seen any much difference to what i recall. whatever.

abot the rest of the ot here i am with fishy for the most part (if not for all). especially about aros. im exactly one of the people who doesnt regard aros suitable for everyday use but im interested in it. this is just a sane view i think. and i regard also 3.x usable to certain extent. i didnt dedicated my a4k solely to spreadsheets, (even though i could, since it displays 1680x1050), but i used it mostly for harddisk recording, composing with hdrec quite succesfully. on the other hand, should i trust the majority of os4 users as to its everydays value? looking at all these basic problem threads, machines locking up while idle, users "dreaming" rather than considering, and yet everybody being 100% convinced makes me a little doubtful.

@Spectre660

Sure, Id much rather people use any form of amiganoid system than not use one at all. I also appologize for semi hijacking the thread, but without responding to ChrisH (couldve been anyone, but just happened to be him) my thinking may have been unclear and may have sounded anti OS4.

I was simply quite shocked at the crazy prices of Sam hardware. I knew it was expensive, but didnt realise just how expensive it was. Of course this being the amiga world it's hard to express discontent without people assuming youre attacking. I was just disappointed that the price is so lopsided versus other options that I cant justify jumping onboard. Ive got about a grand set aside that I was planning on spending on a hobby, its a shame it cant be something OS4.x related. What was once a great value, albiet slightly pricey platform has been reduced to "lets just be happy there's something, at any cost", and then have to make heavy compromises in its usage. That's not something I can support. If others can then all power to them.

@ fishy_fis

No worries.

Just look at it from this point of view.
I ran Amithlon for about ten years after my 603 Amiga 1200 powerpc card died.
If I had put aside just US$200.00 per year since then towards a new Amiga i would
have US$2000.00 waiting to spend on a new system today.
If I did not like available systems I could wait and keep saving or spend the money on something else like you outlined.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Fishy

Either you buy it or not. You know the prices were higher before, you know the new prices.

I know i will go X1000, probably double the SAM price but thats the way if i want something more powerfull then my A1G4XE. I enjoyed it very much even if i lost interest for some time now (lack of usb2 driver, better browser, music apps updates). Now im almost daily on it becuase of update 3 and owbmui. X1000 is costly but then i will have it for many years as i dont think a powerfull laptop will come anytime soon.

If i didnt had A1 i would go for the SAM.

I already have a Laptop with i5 cpu (windows 7) and i dont need anything faster then that. Fits fine under my TV as media center with xbmc or just surf whatever. I dont play games so i dont need anything more power. I do have an PS3 that i used to play on. I got tired of it. But i always get back to amiga from time to time :)

@fishy_fis

Yes, our hobby is expensive and computers for OS4 over-priced and under-powered. However, I will gladly spend my four monthly salaries for some rare decoration for my table. It was ever my child dream to buy an Amiga branded computer powered by Amiga OS, now I have enough resources to fulfil such dream.

Quote:

There's little difference between what can be done on os3.x with a lot of grunt and OS4.x.

Things I would like to do on my WinUAE box, but I can´t:
Edit MS Word documents with footnotes.
Watch videos with proper GUI.
Browse internet with useable browser.

Sure, at least AROS offers "solution" for some of these needs (eg. Windows emulation in DosBox for MS Word compatibility), but it still isn´t as pleasant to use as OS3 I have on PC of my brother.

Quote:

but rather from the angle of logic

I don´t think Amiga today can be judged by logic. It is pleasure, it is passion, but it certainly isn´t something one can call "rational".

Quote:

Yes, I understand the volume of numbers arguement, but damn thats somewhat lopsided. The above pc system would probably be at least 25x as powerful (even more when doing gfx related stuff).

I definitely understand your perspective, and it is certainly true that NG Amiga hardware is relatively expensive for its power. If the Amiga X1000 and Sam460's become more and more popular, that could change over time.

Bottom line, even though the Amiga is a decades old platform, the NG Amiga platform is still relatively new and only recently viable with legal matters settled. So, what we must recognize is that NG Amiga is necessarily going through the typically early adopter cycle. Early adopter cycles require a higher cost from a smaller audience. That's basic economics and NG Amiga is not exempt.

We could all deny the economics of the situations... but that is tantamount to letting the platform die finally. Definitely a valid option, for many. But not all.

There is a segment of the population that is always willing to be early adopters, despite the relatively high costs that entails. And to a degree, we all owe a gratitude to early adopters. Without early adopters, many technologies we all take for granted would have died on the vine long ago.

Maybe over the next 5 years, the NG Amiga platform would finally get out of early adopter purgatory, and finally represent a "value". Maybe not. But one thing is for sure... early adopters are the only vehicle available to make the transition, if at all.

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Vic-20, C-64, C-128
Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000