@ Rogue

Considering that there was a hack to do something like this available already, I doubt Apple have had much choice in their approach. This came just one week or so after third parties had already come up with a way of running XP on Intel Macs.
My guess is that Apple had this ready as a contingency plan - (but only if someone got there first).
I have this running on my Mac Mini already and whilst there are a couple of glitches here and there that needs sorting out.. (this is still beta) I am quite impressed.
I bought my Mac Mini only when I knew that XP could be run on it... because whilst I am am not a big fan of Microsoft, my work relies on them and I have to run their software most of the time. As an ex Amiga user... then BeOS user I wanted to try out OSX.
Shares in Apple have gone up 9% after this announcement... so some people out there with money don't see this as a bad business move anyway...

Quote:

Indeed, only that the software available for Windows is far bigger. I don't think that Apple has done a favour to the Apple software developers, because they now have a convenient "excuse" to produce Windows versions.

Last edited by hairyneanderthal on 06-Apr-2006 at 03:49 PM.

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@all

This is where Apple may be on to a winner here....
I bought my "Mac Mini" because of this possibility.,...

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All the "this will kill Apple" folks are missing the point!

Apple makes all their money from hardware sales, so a boost in hardware sales is definitely good in the short term. And the "halo" effect should boost all Apple sales. The question is whether long term people will tend to switch over to Windows, rather than use OS X:

Those suggesting that people will stick to Windows show absolutely no confidence in the superiority of OS X over Windows! Surely user experience counts for something?!? When you can run both side by side, then the deficiencies of Windows will become glaringly apparent - viruses & spyware slowing it down & crashing, obscene pop-ups all the time, the need to pay for anti-virus, a boring & over-complicated GUI, and lots more.

Sure a few people will find that Window's larger app base compensates for it's problems, but I think that most people don't need hundreds of programs, they want a Web browser, Email client, Office apps, MP3 player software, simple interface, and reliability. OS X provides all that.

The same logic applies to OS4 running on x86, but again Hyperion have no confidence in the superiority of OS4 over Windows, and see the only solution as locking people into expensive custom hardware. That kind of logic worked for the Amiga in the 1980s, but started loosing in the 1990s, and is now completely wrong-headed for 2000s since the PC became cheap commodity hardware.

Last edited by ChrisH on 06-Apr-2006 at 04:46 PM.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

I tend to say my next daytoday machine will be a MAC because of this but....
What if the regular pc runs MacOSX for x86 ..... then this is a useless topic ...

And you are a fool when you buy a MAC just for the looks ... there are new designs for PC's everyday for half the money ... and the day it runs MACOSX as good as a real Mac.... Sorry my name isn't rockefeller ... I choose their operating system but on the cheap(er) and more upgradeable hardware ...

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The Belgian Amiga Club on FACEBOOK !

The Belgian Amiga Club Website

BTW, Hyperion's "lock in to custom hardware" logic might be right for games software, since there is no way someone would buy an Amiga port of an old Windows game (that probably doesn't run as well as the original) at full price, when they could buy that same game much earlier or at budget prices.

But surely Hyperion wouldn't decide the fate of our beloved OS, based on a few game ports? *cough* Although a captive games market does probably sound quite attractive...

EDIT: Nope, I am wrong! These days you can't get by without owning a Windows PC of some sort, so 99% of people who would buy an OS4 machine or Apple Mac would also buy/keep a Windows machine (whether personally, or with a family member). You have to accept that you are directly competing with Windows, whether you use custom hardware or not. Apple knows this, but it seems that Hyperion do not...

Last edited by ChrisH on 06-Apr-2006 at 06:29 PM.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

They might as well give up making computers and just sell x86 OS X, because it's only a matter of time before some one hacks x86 OS X to be run on cheap PCs.

MacOSX (x86) has already been cracked / hacked to run on regular x86 PC's. It's been hacked since it was first released.

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Amiga 1200T: D-Box 1200 Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260[@]50Mhz, 32mb Fast Ram, 3gig HDD, 52x CD-ROM Drive, ToastScan Scan Doubler, Mediator PCI 1200 SX, FastATA 1200 MK-III, PCMCIA Adapter, PCMCIA Network Card MKIII, Amiga OS 3.5

@Rogue

"I don't think that Apple has done a favour to the Apple software developers, because they now have a convenient "excuse" to produce Windows versions."

I don't get your point. Surely if they're looking for a convenient excuse, then Apple IS doing them a favour? I don't see why they should be.

Outside of the big cross-platform apps, Mac apps are increasingly tied into the OS X API. Objective-C, Cocoa, use of OS technologies. In the Mac world, these companies are big fish in a smaller (but growing) pond. Why should they jump into an ocean of similar and derivative apps and lose all the stuff they inherit from OS X? You should understand that from an x86 point of view...

Plus, asking your average user to pay for a copy of Windows, repartition the hard disk, install Windows, learn how to use Windows and install the app, is not that different from saying "buy a PC"!

Chris

@ChrisH

I agree with your last point, but the majority of people can get by with a Mac or Linux box (Amiga OS is not there yet) Unless you're doing CAD or playing a specific game, you don't need Windows.

They might think they do before they buy the Mac. In which case, this is a great thing for OS X.

Chris

@ChrisH

You talk alot of sense man, I agree with your thoughts completely.
I am one step closer to owning a Mac myself now as well.

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

Quote:

I don't understand commentslike yours. Apple give you the choice, in a professional and complete way. Thanks to this i can destroy my last pc and buy a second mac.

So is that a YES to port OS4 to intel?

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Men who have girlies in their avatars are Girliemen!

Apple is forced to (re)act because of this?

http://www.parallels.com/

Last edited by che on 06-Apr-2006 at 09:19 PM.

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> Another step towards the dead of MAC

They "get it"

You succeed by providing value to your customers, not restricting your customers use of the product making it less valueable.

My next computer purchase will be the first x86 Mac capable of running Vista.

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"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

Quote:

You succeed by providing value to your customers, not restricting your customers use of the product making it less valueable.

Definitely! Taking a greedy short-term profit-centered screw-the-customer approach to business may well may you some bucks in the short term, but in any market that isn't growing rapidly you won't get those customers back again, and so gradually loose out to those who DO treat the customer with some respect. (There are of course limits to this, as in any compromise between two conflicting demands.)

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Here's a fairly optimistic article about the effect of Boot Camp on Mac gaming:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/04/07/gamerreax/index.php

I tend to agree with the sentiment towards the bottom of the article.

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Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Rogue

There will continue to be a market for OS X applications and games. If I had one of the new machines I'd only boot into Windows if I really really had to. Which means I'd buy a Mac version of applications/games any day over Windows applications. I don't buy a Mac to keep using Windows programs. That makes no sense.

Besides that it is rumoured that Yellow Box is being ressurrected meaning it will be an even larger advantage to develop on the Mac. If it works well enough and all that.

Quote:

IMHO Apples x86-boxes don't have the "BIOS" and XP can't start without it. (All Windows need the "BIOS")

MS WIndows XP/2K3 Itanium Edition doesn't require classic "BIOS", but does require IA-64 HW eco-system.

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@daydreamer
Refer to
http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/8/f/98f3fe47-dfc3-4e74-92a3-088782200fe7/TWAR05018_WinHEC05.ppt
for Windows X64 edition booting with AMI's UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface).

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
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Quote:

Now apple is just another PC company making unnecessarily expensive PCs! They might as well give up making computers and just sell x86 OS X, because it's only a matter of time before some one hacks x86 OS X to be run on cheap PCs

Apple Computer Corp doesn’t manufacture Mac HW i.e. refer to Foxconn (a.k.a WinFast) and ASUSTek (aka ASUS, AsRock).

Quote:

After Apple dies,

Apple will survive as it did during 68K's PC reign.

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
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Quote:

Indeed, only that the software available for Windows is far bigger. I don't think that Apple has done a favour to the Apple software developers, because they now have a convenient "excuse" to produce Windows versions.

MS Windows XP IA-32 ecosystem was already available on PPC Macs via MS’s Virtual PC MacOS PPC edition.

This dual boot setup enables native performance for both MacOS X (IA-32) and Windows XP.

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Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
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ChrisH you are looking at this from the point of view of a computer enthusiast... 99.9% of computer users don't even care about the OS they are using, 80% probably don't even know where's a choice. People care about what software they can run.

How's this for an idea:

Apple have lost interest in the OS itself, realising that they can make money out ot the Apple brand name by selling overpried hardware (come on, there are mp3 players far better and cheaper than the iPod series... but what does everybody want?)

Apple want to become the leading supplier of fancy looking PC's where they can charge a hefty markup without having to support the development of the OS.

Making such a switch instantly would bring the Apple community up in arms... much better to port the OS to x86 first, and then allow it to run Windows XP. Once 90% of the existing users have moved over to x86 (what we saying, 2 or 3 years?) Apple will announce that they are shifting focus, and concentrating on Quicktime, iPod and "High quality, stylish Apple Media PC's". As for the OS... I see three potentials:


*They may split the company into a software & hardware devision, where the software side could continue to produce OSX and/or develop a replacement for Windows Explorer to mimic the look of the Apple Desktop

*They may announce that they intend to completey stop the OS development, porting any usefull sections to an Apple "layer" on top of Windows.

*They may announce that they intend to Open-Source the OS and let the community continue development, they may also decide to port some of the useful sections over to Windows XP.


My reconing is the last one, but I'm sure Apple's long term goal is to be a provider of over priced hardware!