@Amikit

I'm sorry of this off-topic but bernd is spreading or suggesting false information. I think this can't be left as if it was truth...

@bernd

Evil Hyperion : they secured every Amiga source code out there just to prevent anyone else to port it to another Amiga like system...
About MagicMenu authors are/were part of the AOS4 dev team so MagicMenu is now integrated in AOS4 and might not be willing to share their code.
And about MCP I don't see the relation with Hyperion/AOS4 : MCP is heavily based upon MUI which was not choosed as the official AOS GUI (since 3.5 IIRC). The fact MCP's authors left the Amiga scene can't be attributed to Hyperion nor the fact that they did not released their source code prior to doing this ! Come on, be serious ! Tons of Amiga devs left during the last decade without releasing their source code and Hyperion or not, AOS4 or not I have strong assumptions that this would have been the case of the majority of them because the scene became too tiny and also too much behind everything else for them.

I can respect the fact you don't like AOS4 for personnal reasons, or the fact you are frustrated by the time it took to came out, that's really no problem for me. But please try to not present your feelings as proved facts especially when they are based on rumors or (deliberatly?) partial truth.
I really don't see the point in doing that especially in this thread that purpoted to be dedicated to the promotion of AfA you won't gain anything doing that quite the opposite I might say (you know for example I had this very morning an enquiry for a port to AROS of my latest FTPMount version I kindly replied that I was not interested personnaly in doing it but would be happy to share with an interested developper, seeing repeated false attacks to OS4 users/devs does not help them being indulgents and/or cooperatives in the long term : in the end they will just say 'no').

EDIT:
Quote:

more winuae running simulatoanios support full memprotect of AOS program usefull when debug.

How ? can you make your concurrent WinUAE instances to speach to each other ? If no then you can't call this memory protection else I can say OS4 has memory protection if I would own OS4 for classic and run it at the time as my A1...

Quote:

hardware is faster and cheaper

That's not a feature of the OS but of the hardware...

Quote:

I like old 68k Soft as photogenics and amiblitz and my musicsoft.all run not on OS4 very fast.PPC is a slow CPU have only 1 GHZ, so loose much speed.and the SAM HW with slow ram access and no 2.level cache is also slow.and when emulate is more slow.if OS4 offer not important features that cant reach with 68k, so wy i should buy a extra OS4 HW ?.

I'm not sure I understood what you were trying to say, but if you were saying that you like Photogenics, AmiBlitz and other music programs each of them being 68k. I'm not sure that they are running slower under AOS4 than on the original 68k hardware they were programmed to run on...

Again what's the point about bringing SAM here ? that has nothing to do with OS features, ram access, 2nd level cache speed etc does not match the discussion here and of course compared they might seems weak compared to the absolute numbers an x86 processor might show. But that's not the the thing that really matters, after all as a user what I don't care about the Ghz of my processor what I care on the other hand is that when I want to open something it does not spend ages scanning network neighbourhood or something like that. on the other hand if the raw number is what matters to you in a 'mine is longer than yours'-like competition then yes okay x86 is definitely your way, personnaly I would prefer efficiency to power profusion but that's my opinion.

Last edited by abalaban on 15-Apr-2009 at 03:52 PM.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

Yesterday i installed afa_os 4.4 on my e-uae on os4.1.
Seems to work ok :) Tested a couple of minutes.

@abalaban

>And about MCP I don't see the relation with Hyperion/AOS4 :

the last Owner of the MCP source is OS4 User.I have hope when he notice that OS4 cant win, and all AOS are retro OS he send me source so i can add MCP features in AFA and must not do all alone.

>How ? can you make your concurrent WinUAE instances to speach to each other ?

clipboard support work, there is also possible better system integration.
look when UAE for AROS integration is ready and then two AUE can work and seem like 2 programs run.

>I can say OS4 has memory protection if I would own OS4 for classic and run it at >the time as my A1...

yes that is memory protection too and more safe as run on same Hardware
but you need own hardware for every program monitor switch keyboard etc.

>I'm not sure that they are running slower under AOS4 than on the original 68k >hardware they were programmed to run on...

of course they run faster on amiga one than on real classic.but i use them on winuae on a AMD64 3000+ and i paint and do lots image process of 5 Megapixel images.

>Again what's the point about bringing SAM here ?

every OS get with time faster Hardware, but not OS4, the fastest Hardware was the amoga one xe.then year later come slower system amiga micro aone.

then 5 years later come more slower system (calculation speed).

what do you think if windows or Linux HW or Mac HW do same evolution as OS4 Hardware ?

I think this systems get then same few users as OS4.

So i think, because Hyperion does not manage to bring AOS to a good Hardware, the User loose interest on amiga OS and also do not much work to do it better, because in Forums was always told OS4 is the best and in future it get better.

@bernd_afa

The last owner you were talking with is the same developer as here?

This one seems to be active with the MCP project.

>The last owner you were talking with is the same developer as here?

yes, thanks for your link, i look now on current homepage and see news from 2.2009.
maybe he have more time now.

I ask him now again, he promised me this info long time ago, but he tell he have in the past(i think over 1 year i wait now) no time to give me the info and code snippets how MCP patch MUI and reaction gadgets.

It is also possible that MCP itself use when AFA is detect the AFA Icons.same as MCP gadtools can use AAF skin.
In AFA is Code for iconify Gadget in since AFA 4.1

system friendly programs can use it with sysiclass id used as amiga standard 104.
but because MUI, Reaction, dopus,kingcon and many others hack it in a non system friendly way in, i need a patch.

other Gadgets can add easy, but there are no Gadgets paint yet, because without patch it is not usefull

A Patch in MCP is also usefull when use on OS4/ MOS, because there is same problem as far i know, kingcon and other non system friendly Soft have ugly zip icon.

But because OS4/MOS have sources of MUI, reaction, and they can easy change the additional Gad code system friendly they need a patch not for most programs.

@bernd_afa

Quote:

yes, thanks for your link, i look now on current homepage and see news from 2.2009. maybe he have more time now.

so you admit you were saying false things when you were claiming MCP authors were in cahoots with Hyperion to prevent MCP from being used on any other Amiga systems, and that what you were presenting as verified facts were in the end just some false assumptions (here I grant you the benefit of doubt and won't imply you were lying on purpose) from your side based on nothing tangible.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

hello,

MCP is allways developped and betatested actually (I'm one of the betatesters).

The author of MCP have actually little more time to do on MCP than last months and It's great for MCP.

BTW, I don't know that you have requested the syshihack code inside MCP from the author one year ago. The only thing I know is the zune support for newgadtools feature of MCP.

Last edited by Mrodfr on 16-Apr-2009 at 10:25 AM.

_________________
BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT
-SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1

Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project

You tell'em kitty!
* speeds up the icon loading more than 10 times
A key feature!

_________________

@abalaban
>so you admit you were saying false things when you were claiming MCP authors >were in cahoots with Hyperion to prevent MCP

No you change my words, i do not admit it and i say no false things, it is my personal meaning i say i think and this 2 times.

Quote:

This is text i write before I think thats same problem, i think many from OS4 side see all AOS non OS4 I think

Nobody say under a real name all other AOS than OS4 should die.here you can read on german Forum(translate it yourself if you dont believe my short translate) a anonymous post that.thats what people really think.

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/thread/AN-2009-04-00034-DE.html

comment15

"""
xxx (16-Apr-2009, 09:33)
"""

hopefully MOS die("den Bach runter" is a speelword for this) , near nothing is hear from MOS,then is peace.

its really bad that there is no working together possible as on Linux.I think with that working together more software is out with more features

Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 04:16 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 04:13 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 07:40 AM.

@bernd_afa

Quote:

No you change my words, i do not admit it and i say no false things, it is my personal meaning i say i think and this 2 times.

So when you were saying :
Quote:

its sad that i start AFA so late, because i believe the announces of Hyperion.Now since 2005- 2006 the E-Mail adresses of original Author of MCP is not avilable, also from magic menu.the OS4 side, or OS4 users grab many sources from devs that leave amiga and i think they have no intreseting that only OS4 have this sources and not other amiga systems. so there cant be a reason wy not share MCP or magicmenu source

You were not saying that Hyperion and/or OS4 devs are keeping MCP sources for themselves preventing it to be further developed and/or ported on other system than AOS 4? If you were not saying that then forgive me I did misunderstood what you were trying to say...
And also just to add one thing author of a program has every rights to it even to choose to keep it closed source and exclusive to one platform. To my knowledge MOS's Sketch is not open source nor ported on to 68k or AROS nor AOS 4.x will you bother them to give you their sources in order to have it under AfA ? That's only a sample I could have took Caligari : you might try to bother Microsoft to obtain latest sources and backport it to AmigaOS 3.x, after all Caligari started on AOS, I can't believe how selfish Microsoft is .
Or if you think backward the same was true when OS 3.x came out : many programmers choosed to adopt/use new OS conventions in their new softs leaving behind OS 2.x users, that's the way evolution works that's all. You have the right to stick on classic AOS (i.e. OS 3.x) at least as much as developers have the right to choose to embrace the AmigaOS-NG way...

Quote:

I think thats same problem, i think many from OS4 side see all AOS non OS4 I think """ Nobody say under a real name all other AOS than OS4 should die.here you can read on german Forum(translate it yourself if you dont believe my short translate) a anonymous post that.thats what people really think.

And just because there is a dumb AOS4 user you are placing the whole OS4 community in the same bag ? That's a quick and definitive judgment don't you think ?

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

>You were not saying that Hyperion and/or OS4 devs are keeping MCP sources for >themselves preventing it to be further developed and/or ported on other system >than AOS 4?

No, you yourself copy what i write here.

""""
the OS4 side, or OS4 users grab
""""

you can interpret OS4 side, as OS4 developer or OS4 users.

And now after"," i write OS4 Users, are Hyperion OS4 users ?.

""""
so you admit you were saying false things when you were claiming MCP authors were in cahoots with Hyperion to prevent MCP from being used on any other Amiga systems,
"""

maybe you understand wrong what i mean with that sentence.

"""
its sad that i start AFA so late, because i believe the announces of Hyperion
"""

this mean, that i first think Hyperion are good to make a good future AmigaOS.the announcememts sound really great, some months later a new amiga OS on native Hardware.

But time went and nothing come and i wait and wait to buy OS4.then in 2003, when OS4 was announced in cebet 2003, i was short before to order a aone.but i think i better wait until OS4 is here.

then no OS4 on cebit come, and i think ok wait again, instead do own work to enhance amiga OS.Then when i see on a aone in a computer club in 2004 first time OS4 i thought oh are they slow, if they have sell 1000 Units a 100 EUr OS4 proce, is 100000 eur.and for this, the work done is really weak.but i think ok, maybe they have not release actual because it is not fully testet and then release 6 months later a usefull AOS with USB2 and opengl and the announced programs, candy factory real3d and other that announce.i also hear from a user in amiga club, that when OS4 come its great and all is in.

but in okt 2005 i thought, this make no sense to wait for Hyperion, and begin to enhance AOS so i need not stay on old 3.9, have system wide truetype Fonts, faster Icons etc.

hope now its clear, what i want say, its my fault that i believe what Hyperion announce, and when somebody tell me the reality about OS4 progress, or i can look in future in 2001 and see what OS4 2005 was, then i have begin 2001 with AFA.

thats the reason because i dont like announces that never or late reach, they also tell me that they are losers, they dont reach what they plan.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 11:36 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 11:35 AM.

>And just because there is a dumb AOS4 user you are placing the whole OS4 >community in the same bag ? That's a quick and definitive judgment don't you think ?

and where i have written how many users think so ?

have i written most OS4 users think so, or whole ?

I think there is really a language wall between us which prevents us to understand well each other...

You have the right to be disappointed I have no problem with that but there is a difference between presenting his disappointment and attacking people. You are doing, at least this is how I read it by the words you are using, the second.

For example you could have written :

"I personally have no faith anymore in what <xxxx> is saying because, to my taste every of their announce either failed to materialize or didn't came in due time"

That's really different to :

"they also tell me that they are losers, they dont reach what they plan" (post #31) or "But on the other side the long delay show that Hyperion are lame and no good OS developer." (post #16)

I guess we went very off topic now because the main topic was your release of AfA 4.4 I still fail to see why you feeled the need to drag AOS4 and Hyperion in this, but hey that's your thread

EDIT:
Quote:

and where i have written how many users think so ? have i written most OS4 users think so, or whole ?

In my books when you are writting "the OS4 side" it's referring to the whole OS4 community both users and devs.

EDIT: typo

Last edited by abalaban on 17-Apr-2009 at 03:10 PM.
Last edited by abalaban on 17-Apr-2009 at 01:00 PM.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@abalaban

>In my books when you are writting "the OS4 side" it's referring to the whole OS4 >community both users and devs.

read the Post again, there is no word about OS4 side in this post.the text in line

"""

"""

is a quote from a previous post with complete other context. i only post that to show that you change my word.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4858&start=20#64465

is it now more clear ?

>That's really different to :

>"they also tell me that they are losers, they dont reach what they plan" (post #31) >or "But on the other side the long delay show that Hyperion are lame and no good >OS developer." (post #16)

ok, maybe i can say that nicer, but fact is same, Hyperion have large delay and is slow.if the follower of Mac 9 or win98 or Linux have 2009 no USB2 or good opengl and only such Hardware as OS4, i think users say the same to Apple or M$.

no money is no excuse in software developing, see Linux.

and now something on topic.
I have get the info now how MCP patch the gadgets very fast.so i need not wait longer.thanks

Last edited by bernd_afa on 17-Apr-2009 at 04:29 PM.

Come on people. What is said is said. Keep on with the interesting things ;)

@bernd

Quote:

@abalaban >In my books when you are writing "the OS4 side" it's referring to the whole OS4 >community both users and devs. read the Post again, there is no word about OS4 side in this post.the text in line """ """ is a quote from a previous post with complete other context. i only post that to show that you change my word. http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4858&start=20#64465 is it now more clear ?

No it isn't maybe it would be if you would be using the site's feature to quote what people said instead of inlining them in your answers...
But reread your post #16 from this thread and the first section. To me your are saying that majority of the AOS4 crowd is treating every other OSes users as "enemies" and is wishing death of these platform. Or am I changing your words ?
Personally I did not enlist into any crusade, it's fine to me you (and others too) are using anything other than AOS4, in fact I just don't care. I agree that MOS, and even AROS to certain aspect, have interesting things to offer, just like Windows or Mac OS have too, for me this are just other OSes like the two majors I named above, they just have a smaller audience (than Win or Mac) and share common root.
*But* I'm not turning up my nose at them nor their users neither their developers so please be kind enough not to do it toward AOS4 yourself.

Quote:

no money is no excuse in software developing, see Linux.

Last time I checked Linux wasn't a commercial OS so that might explain why it's developed without money... And again I don't see why you are bringing this in the discussion this has nothing to do and nobody except you spoke about money here.

Quote:

and now something on topic. I have get the info now how MCP patch the gadgets very fast.so i need not wait longer.thanks

That's great, I wish you good luck to integrate it into AfA.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

>To me your are saying that majority of the AOS4 crowd is treating every other >OSes users as "enemies" and is wishing death of these platform. Or am I changing >your words ?

think what you want, type in google "amiga red versus blue war" or "amiga red vs blue war"

then you find that and read.maybe you understand that and also undertand that the working together between red blue and aros and other is not as good as can be for example on Linux

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6287&forum=3

@bernd

Are you ever reading links you are providing before sending them ? Because here what I can read is SSolie's apologizes for seeming rude without real intention and MOSzone users accepting them and going on discussing alltogether peacefully. For me no red vs blue war, no "xxxOS is evil and should die" or any other nonsense you are trying to imply.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !